12 Replies Latest reply on Jul 31, 2011 12:35 PM by Lefteris K

    CS4 Camera RAW White Point


      Setting White Point in Camera RAW 5.7 CS4


      I am trying to make pictures out of scanned old slides/negatives which often have colour casts.


      Some pictures do not have a suitable white spot for setting the point.


      I often find that the "As Shot" or any of the default settings do not look right.


      Please what is the best way to set the white point for these ?

        • 1. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
          JimHess-h1lFU3 Level 1

          Have you tried using the eyedropper tool to sample an area that should be neutral?

          • 2. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
            Noel Carboni Level 8

            As Shot cannot possibly have any meaning for a scanned photo.  That's only valid for using the white point selected by a digital camera, as far as I know.


            Did you try Auto?


            Otherwise, just move the Temperature and Tint sliders until the image looks right.



            • 3. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
              JimHess-h1lFU3 Level 1

              There is a program, VueScan, that has the capability of saving scanned images as DNG files.  I have done that, and the "as shot" option is one that is available in white balance.

              • 4. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                Noel Carboni Level 8

                What does it use to set the metadata values for the color temperature and tint?


                Whether it sets the values or not, it's hard to imagine they could make much sense.



                • 5. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                  JimHess-h1lFU3 Level 1

                  Don't really know how to answer your question because I'm not that technically savvy.  Perhaps I misread your response.  I interpreted it to indicate that it was impossible (sort of) for a scanned image to have those "standard" raw white balance choices.  It seemed to give me a little better control on the DNG scans I did.  But maybe I was imagining things.

                  • 6. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                    bortu Level 1

                    Thanks for all the replies.


                    I am using VueScan and saving as DNG. I have tried using all the default settings. Auto did come out well.


                    The trouble is on some pics I cant find a white spot to use the eye dropper on. When I can find one that is what I do.


                    What I have been doing was setting it by what looked right and is not clipping. I was just hoping for a more scientific method.


                    Anyway if just eyeballing it the way to go I just have to try harder to remember what the colours were when I took the shot.


                    Thanks again.

                    • 7. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                      JimHess-h1lFU3 Level 1

                      I am in the process of digitally archiving 40 years of departmental photographs.  I am using VueScan to scan all of the slides, and I'm using other software to scan the prints.  For this project, I have elected to scan to the tiff format rather than DNG.  One of my main assignments is to collar correct the images.  Rather than worry about setting a white point, I created a preset that pretty much eliminates most of the problems, and I apply that preset as I import the images into Lightroom.  I will admit that I'm not getting perfect white balance.  But everyone seems to be happy with what I am doing.  It isn't a real scientific approach, but it's working for me.

                      • 8. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Photoshop, or even Elements, would have more options than Lightroom for fixing colors or a color-cast in images that have not been added by the scanner, but is already in the images, themselves, a color cast usually caused by different rates of deterioration of the various pigments in the photo paper or film.


                        Trying the different Options in the Photoshop Levels command can be helpful. 


                        You can tweak the RGB channels differently in Photoshop Curves.


                        Elements has a Remove Color Cast command that works for simple cases and is similar to the Auto WB in LR or ACR.


                        Sometimes you need to duplicate one of the color channels and substitute it for one of the other color channels.  For example if the red is entirely faded, then duplicate the blue channel and paste it into the red channel and see how things look, or perhaps use the green channel, instead, depending on the mix of colors in the original.  There are techniques for adjusting skintones at the expense of other colors in the image.


                        There are tutorials for fixing underwater images that would be somewhat applicable to photos heavily faded by prolonged exposure to sunlight or indoor UV sources.


                        Tweaking the HSL sliders in LR or ACR can be helpful if the image is mostly fixed by prior adjustments.

                        • 9. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                          Noel Carboni Level 8

                          JimHess wrote:


                          Perhaps I misread your response.

                          Possibly.  Or it's possible the original poster was using "As Shot" to indicate "Any of the provided white balance choices", as you interpreted it, and I was just being too specific.


                          My only point was that "As Shot" specifically indicates the white balance chosen by a digital camera.  With a film image the camera doesn't do this, and even if it somehow did measure the color of the ambient light it could not transmit the information through the image on the film into the scanner for inclusion into the metadata.


                          I believe your process of creating a preset is actually just about spot-on, assuming the slides are not faded or have color casts that would make them look bad if projected.  What you're doing is setting up to gauge the color of the scanner's light in this case.  As ssprengel has said, there might be some outliers where the slide itself is badly colored, then you have to tweak the controls to try to compensate for that.



                          • 10. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                            JimHess-h1lFU3 Level 1

                            And that is precisely how things are working.  I'm quite surprised at how well the majority of these images have survived.  My preset covers the majority of the images.  And, as you have suspected, my preset was created to compensate for the uniqueness of the scanner I am using.  So I find that I only have to really work on the occasional image that was either exposed incorrectly or has discoloration of some sort or another.  It has worked reasonably well for the 5500+ images that I have scanned/processed so far.

                            • 11. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                              PBoehme Level 1

                              The Silverfast Scanner software has some pretty good color correction presets for various types of old color film, both negatives and chrome that are no longer in production.  I have had reasonable success using color balance in Photoshop to adjust color casts.  Hopefully, the scans were saved as 16 bit files.

                              • 12. Re: CS4 Camera RAW White Point
                                Lefteris K


                                I beleive camera raw should do color balance very well.

                                First of all set brightness, recovery, black, and fill light,

                                After you have to be carefull to use temperature, and tint

                                + try increasing vibrance and saturation to get stronger colors.

                                If you are happy all the colors except white, then

                                Use the adjastment brush, decrease the saturation and brush the white areas.

                                Hope this helps,