12 Replies Latest reply on Jul 22, 2011 10:51 AM by Jim_Simon

    5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!

    TedOz Level 1

      So after forking out a fortune to purchase Adobe Production Premium, I discover that after all the hoopla, I cannot do 5.1 sound with SD output unless I spend a FURTHER $295! What a RIPOFF! That was never stated in any of the reviews or discussions about this product. I am VERY DISSATISFIED. All the advertising says '5.1 sound, no worries!' what a lie. Do I get a refund? Fat chance. This is, without the slightest doubt, the last Adobe package I will ever buy. Talk about misleading advertising.

        • 1. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          That was never stated in any of the reviews or discussions about this product. I am VERY DISSATISFIED.

           

          Sounds like you didn't do proper research; I can understand why you'd be dissatisfied. If you'd have asked that question here explicitly, you would have gotten the answer.

           

          All the advertising says '5.1 sound, no worries!' what a lie.

           

          Really? Prove that. 5.1 audio is supported for import, straight out of the box. I'd like to see the advertising that says that 5.1 is supported for export. I'm sure Adobe would like to see it, too.

           

          Do I get a refund? Fat chance. This is, without the slightest doubt, the last Adobe package I will ever buy.

           

          If you're within 30 days of purchase, you can. If your forum sign-up date is an indication of when you got the software, you should be eligible. There--you don't even need to buy this one!

           

          Talk about misleading advertising.

           

          Again: proof, please. Misunderstanding what is actually provided by a product does not constitute false or misleading advertising.

          • 2. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Big caveat coming: I have not used this workflow for DD 5.1 SS, as I own two licenses for the Minnetonka Audio SurCode plug-ins for Premiere Pro, and love them. They work great. Still, this THREAD covers an alternate workflow for Encoding DD 5.1 SS, without the SurCode plug-in. I have not seen the author around in a very long time, so I do not know if questions would get an answer. I certainly could not answer them, as I have never tried the suggested workflow. It might work perfectly, or perhaps not.

             

            As for the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in, that has been discussed in many threads in the Premiere forums, and from nearly every possible angle.

             

            I use the SurCode plug-in for most Projects, and liked it so much that I bought a license for each machine.

             

            IIRC, one gets (or got) three trial uses of the plug-in, and then needed to buy it, if they liked it. I did, and I did.

             

            Good luck, and sorry that there was a misunderstanding on the SurCode DD 5.1 SS Encoder plug-in. Per Colin's request, if you can point to an official Adobe document, where it is mentioned as part of PrPro, I feel certain that one of the Adobe employees around here will head down to the Marketing Department, and have that corrected instantly.

             

            As for mention appearing in reviews, I feel that it is incumbent on the reviewer to make it clear that the SurCode Encoder plug-in is a "for-pay" add-on.If they did not, then they were not complete in their reviews. I would contact the reviewers and point this out to them.

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
              TedOz Level 1

              OK, rant over but I feel better about it, even if I didn't read all the 2,207,499 pages on Google about 5.1 sound in Premiere. Guess I was silly to believe the site that says:

              Adobe Audition CS5.5 * 5.1 surround sound

              ...5.1 surround sound Monitoring 5.1 surround sound Edit 5.1 surround files Pan tracks in a 5.1 surround mix Pan sends to a 5.1 bus track Monitoring 5.1 surround sound Adobe Audition supports 5.1 surround sound, which requires five speakers, plus one low frequency subwoofer (LFE). (http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/search/index.cfm?term=5.1+sound&siteSection=products%3Apremie re.html&loc=en_us) Hmm no mention of Surcode there! Whoops. guess they must've just forgot that one! Oh I get it, you can work with 5.1, you just can't export it! And even though even Wikipedia says '5.1 surround sound mixing are available' of course one cannot imply that though one can mix, one can't export. Give me a break.

               

              And the Adobe section called 'Create a 5.1 surround audio sequence' at http://www.adobe.com/ap/tips/prepsurround/ - once again, clearly implie you can actually export in 5.1 what you create in 5.1 (otherwises, what's the point?). But no. no mention of Surcode there, even though the opening sentence reads 'You can use Adobe® Premiere® Pro to mix 5.1 surround audio, such as soundtracks for DVD content or theatrical motion pictures.' and DVD is MPEG2 which - guess what - requires Surcode. Clearly misleading.

               

              And another thing - I'm supposed to get 3 free trial uses for Surcode - no such luck - after installation I got a big fat zero. So now I can't even try it out before considering a purchase. If it was $19.95 I wouldn't worry about it but it's a bit rough to get 0 tries and then be expected to pay such an exhorbitant amount which was the result of misleading promotional material in the first place.

              • 4. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Apparently, the 3 trial Encodes has fallen by the way-side. That was how it was done historically, though through CS4, there was a "special price" for Adobe Premiere users, and word has it, that the special price was discontinued. Going back to that special price, if one bought from within the SurCode dialog, they got the plug-in for US $ 250, rather than the Minnetonka Audio Web price of ~ US $ 289. Not a giant savings, but it saved me nearly US $ 100 off of the Web price for my two licenses.

                 

                I cannot say how much you might use it, but for me, the $ was well spent, and almost every Project has DD 5.1 SS. I also bought the SurCode DTS Encoder, but that is a full stand-alone and separate program. I have been very pleased with both Encoders.

                 

                Good luck, and maybe someone needs to ring up Marketing, to make sure that SurCode and the additional price is clearly evident?

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  You might go here, with your links, and tell them what SHOULD be on those pages

                   

                  Bug Report and Feature Request https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                  • 6. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                    Mark Wheeler Level 1

                    TedOz wrote:

                     

                    Guess I was silly to believe the site that says:

                    Adobe Audition CS5.5 * 5.1 surround sound...

                    And the Adobe section called 'Create a 5.1 surround audio sequence' at http://www.adobe.com/ap/tips/prepsurround/...

                     

                    Though Dolby Digital export requires an additional purchase, standard surround export does not. For example, Audition exports 5.1 natively to its standard formats: WAV, AIFF, MOV, and MP3. This is a common workflow for computer-based surround, as well as adding surround files downstream to Premiere or Encore projects. The Audition Help topic referenced above correctly reflects that app's surround capabilities.

                     

                    However, the Premiere tutorial "5.1 surround audio sequence" not only fails to mention that SurCode is necessary for Dolby Digital, but dates from several versions ago and will be pulled down. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. We'll also add the SurCode/Dolby Digital requirements to online Help for Premiere CS5.5.

                     

                    Regarding the truly steep $295 price of the SurCode plug-in: Much of that cost reflects the basic price of a Dolby Digital export license. If we included that license in every copy of Premiere, the app would increase in price accordingly, even for users who have no need for Dolby Digital surround.

                     

                    Apologies that you received this unwelcome surprise after purchasing Production Premium. Hope this clears up some of the reasoning behind this situation.

                    • 7. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Mark,

                       

                      Thank you for the response.

                       

                      As you mention, Minnetonka Audio's price for the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in is almost all licensing fees to Dolby Labs. Going back some years, I was exploring volume licenses of the SurCode plug-in, and Minnetonka Audio basically "opened up their books," in our discussions. Back then, there was a "special Adobe-user's discount," and I could believe how little Minnetonka Audio made on each SurCode sale. Let's just say that Adobe-users got a "screaming deal."

                       

                      I can only imagine that they discontinued that "special price," due to the low margin on the plug-ins.

                       

                      I appreciate your comments,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                        BobBenson Level 1

                        Bill

                         

                        Did you have to purchase new licenses when Premiere Pro went native 64-bit or were you able to upgrade?

                         

                        Also, do you have to update the Minnetonka plug-in when there is a major revision of Premiere Pro?

                         

                        Thanks.

                        • 9. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          I have not gotten to that point, as I am waiting on the 64-bit laptop to be delivered. There was a SurCode thread, when CS5 hit, but I cannot locate it yet. Do not remember the details. [Will be nice with the forum Search is fixed.]

                           

                          When I find that thread, I will post a link. I do not want to try and go from my memory, as that has proved faulty lately.

                           

                          Hope that I have an answer soon.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Until the direct search is fixed, try this... go to Google and enter

                             

                            site:forums.adobe.com

                             

                            then the search term after that... so...

                             

                            site:forums.adobe.com surcode

                            • 11. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                              TedOz Level 1

                              Colin Brougham - I did plenty of reseach - for months. I even bought a computer specifically designed for CS 5.5 (although the phrase 'Adobe-certified card for capture and export to tape for SD/HD workflows' had everyone stumped, even my computer technician, as nowhere does Adobe list such 'certified' cards. Graphics cards, yes, but capture cards, no. I suspect it's a generic meaningless phrase that it tropped out if something doesn't work "well you should have got an Adobe-certified capture card" even though such a creature is never identified).

                               

                              The fact that Premiere requires Surcode is never mentioned in any Adobe documentation - or review fo that matter. To say there are forum items on surcode is irrelevant if I am not informed that I need it in the first place. It could be called Fobbledanger for all I care. Nowhere does Adobe mention that it is required - and Adobe admits this in this thread.

                               

                              'If you'd have asked that question here explicitly, you would have gotten the answer'
                              Again, how am I supposed to ask a question that I don't know is required? All Adobe stuff says it handles 5.1 fine. To say you can mix but omit that you can't export is misleading and to be honest, stupid.

                               

                              'Prove that. 5.1 audio is supported for import,' Proven in this thread.

                               

                              'I'd like to see the advertising that says that 5.1 is supported for export.' Interestingly enough, Adobe documentation says NOTHING about export - but some on, the company makes many claims for 5.1 mixing and compatibility - the ability to export is clearly implied. They don't even put an asterix on any of their pages.

                               

                              One could take the view that this is deliberately misleading, as saying you can mix 5.1 but you simply cannot export it completely negates the purpose for which you are mixing. It is no different to advertising a colour TV that can receive colour transmission, no worries, it just shows in black and white (unless you get a $300 add-on).

                               

                              So all your queries are answered and proven.

                               

                               

                              John T Smith - 'You might go here, with your links, and tell them what SHOULD be on those pages'

                               

                              Thanks for you comment, and if Adobe wants to pay me $110 an hour I'd be happy to rewrite their material for them, however until that time it's not my business to do their work for them (especially as this seems to be deliberate, so they'll ignore me anywat).

                               

                              One could take the view that should someone be of the mind to initiate a class action against such deliberate misleading behaviour, not only would it win hands down but should someone be of a mind to do so one could take the view that many people would be of a mind to join it.

                               

                              All I want is to be able to export in 5.1 in any mode I choose which is clearly implied in all Adobe's advertising material. How about it, Adobe?

                              • 12. Re: 5.1 sound requires $295 further purchase? You have GOT to be kidding!
                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                'Adobe-certified card for capture and export to tape for SD/HD workflows' had everyone stumped,

                                 

                                Look under the column "Capture hardware/software"

                                 

                                http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/extend.html#Captureandeditoptions