20 Replies Latest reply on Nov 2, 2011 11:09 AM by needles27

    H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5

    needles27 Level 3

      I am editing H.264 files from a Canon 5D in CS5.5 on a MacPro 8 Core (4,1) with 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX285, Media on a RAID, Cache files on a separate drive.

       

      When I click on a clip in a built timeline, it takes 2-3 seconds for the program monitor to update.  But, when I click on back to this original clip after clicking away from it, it will load instantly.  This leads me to believe that it is some sort of caching issue.  If I then click 5-6 more clips (Each with a slow load time), and back to the original, it goes back to the slow load time. Playback is smooth however, with the CPU only at about 100% (out of a possible 1600% with 8 cores hyper threading) Clicking on the clips make a brief jump up to about 600% or so as it decodes.

       

      I have posted a clip which shows this in action:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1UDUlV75I

       

      The H.264 issue is shown around 50 seconds (The beginning shows another issue which is discussed on another thread already)

       

      I have tried cleaning the cache, and changing the cache location.  I tried it with many clips shot on different occasions.

       

      I talked with an Adobe employee at a roadshow in San Francisco, and he said that when clicking on a H.264 clip, the machine has to decode the clips before and after it for caching, but it didn't seem right to me - wondering if other MacPro users (or PC) are experiencing this - is it a bug or a feature?

       

      Thank you for your help.

        • 1. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          I don't see this on my Windows 7 rig using Nikon D7000 clips.  I get 1/4 second lag or less.  It's pretty snappy.

          • 2. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
            LFedit Level 1

            Hey needles27,

             

            I am having the exact same issue with 5D and 7D footage on a MacPro 8 Core(4.1) with 16 GB RAM, Nvidia 4000, media on 500MB/sec raid6, and cache is on a separate drive as well.  I can replicate your youtube example perfectly.  I did a full reformat and reinstall of the OS, fresh install of just CS5.5 and the CUDA drivers and Graphics drivers and still have the same lagging performance.  I've found that the scrubbing is improved if you continually scrub back and forth over a clip so the cache builds and then its super smooth after awhile, can you replicate this?

             

            It was this super smooth scrubbing with DSLR cameras I was expecting when upgrading to CS5.5 and the Nvidia 4000 GPU,  Very disappointed right now, is really not a viable option with clients over my shoulder.  Hopefully someone from adobe can comment on this and find a solution.

            • 3. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
              needles27 Level 3

              Yes, same situation if I scrub over a clip a little bit, then it becomes very responsive when returning to it.  It does seem like a cache thing.  Are there other mac users who experience this delay?  If you need some H.264 files to play with, I can upload a batch for testing purposes.  Along with the lagging GUI (another thread) my experience with CS5.5 coming from FCP has been a bit disappointing so far.  Hearing all the other reviews of blazing speed, and to me it feels like editing in molasses.  Hope we can figure it out. 

              • 4. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                LFedit Level 1

                I'm starting to think they are related in some capacity (the sluggish timeline and the h.264 display refresh and scrubbing) I got the opportunity to use a Macpro 3.1 without CUDA and don't remember experiencing the same timeline sluggishness and the h.264 problem.  I will test the recent findings between this thread and other threads regarding dragging clips on a Macpro 3.1 over the weekend and see if there is a connection.  I'll post my findings here.

                • 5. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                  needles27 Level 3

                  That would be interesting to see.  I'll look forward to whatever you can find out, and thanks for helping track this down.  It seems like there is something funky for those few MacPro models, and I am wondering if there are other MacPro users having this problem as well.

                  • 6. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                    LFedit Level 1

                    Just tested scrubbing on a MacPro 3.1 system without CUDA support on h.264 media and it is unbelievably smooth.  No slow refresh in the program monitor when clicking clips at random.  No need to let the chache build by dragging over a clip multiple times. It really is a world of difference and this MacPro3.1 has a 3 year old Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT, 512 MB graphics card. I do think the GUI lag and the clips dragging are related, because dragging instances of clips around in the timeline on the Macpro3.1 is super smooth and nowhere near as laggy as the 4.1 system.  With all these findings the MacPro 4.1 experience with Premiere is quite disapaointing.

                    • 7. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                      needles27 Level 3

                      Wow - very interesting.  So, what do you think we do from here?  Have you ever had luck with Adobe tech support?  Thanks for doing that test.

                      • 8. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                        LFedit Level 1

                        I've submitted a bug report, I suggest you do the same.  Here's the link: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                         

                        I've also opened a Support Case which you can find in the Customer Support Portal.

                         

                        Its hard to think we're the only two with this issue on a MacPro 4.1 system using H.264 footage.  There definitely seams to be a correlation between the delay in CTI scrubbing and the dragging instances in the timeline though, after finding that the 3.1 system is already a smoother experience compared to the 4.1

                        • 9. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                          BenFreedman Level 1

                          May I suggest, just to further narrow down the cause...

                           

                          On the 4.1 machine, try turning CUDA exceleration off, then see if the responsiveness becomes like the 3.1 machine. Then turn the CUDA exceleration back on again and see if it slows down again. This will refine your knowledge of what's causing the slow down...

                           

                          Best,

                           

                          Ben

                           

                          • 10. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                            LFedit Level 1

                            Thanks BenFreedman,

                             

                            I've tried CUDA acceleration on, CUDA acceleration off, replaced my Nvidia 4000 with my ATI 4870, and all of those scenarios replicate the same lag.  I will test with and without CUDA again on Monday to see if there is anything of significance to support outside of that they both lag.

                            • 11. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                              LFedit Level 1

                              My tests of turning on and off GPU accelereation did not change performance at all.  I have a support case opened and will report with any progress.

                              • 12. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                Pharther Phurther Level 1

                                I have had terrible performance since January .... and multiple Forums posts .. bug reports .. etc.

                                 

                                I was wondering when you other Mac users would get here.

                                 

                                A new 12 Core Mac Pro should not dogg like this.

                                 

                                I have had poor response from Adobe tech .. the only help I got was here on the Forums.

                                 

                                Call Center Support does even know what Im talking about. They put me on hold to ask their supervisor way too much.

                                 

                                Good luck.

                                • 13. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                  needles27 Level 3

                                  Prather, is this H.264 lag happening on your machine too?  If so, it looks like this is a problem that is affecting MacPros from 4,1 to current. This would match with the GUI lag that is being discussed in detail in another thread. Your non-response from Adobe is disheartening. Seems like with all of the new Mac converts, they should treat this with more attention. All the Mac users with the latest machines are having the slowest, worst experience with Premiere.

                                  • 14. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                    Pharther Phurther Level 1

                                    Yep. They are trying to close a Case no with a unresolved bug that I 

                                    reported and the Call Center put me on hold for too long whereas I 

                                    hung up. Granted it is 4 am in India .. and I am frustrated .. why 

                                    should I keep spending hours trying to educate non-Mac tech support 

                                    workers who are getting paid $1 a hour to feed a family of six ... ? 

                                    OK .. that is really uncalled for .. but I have been beyond frustrated.

                                     

                                    1.) Adobe Tech Employees SPECIFIC to Mac Hardware should monitor the 

                                    Support Forums .. and be paid to do so. ( At least one ! )

                                     

                                    2.) A Mac SPECIFIC Forum should be easily findable / searchable and 

                                    ALL registered Mac Users / Trail Users should be notified clearly 

                                    where this Forum is.

                                     

                                    3.) Adobe Mac Tech should own at least one of every machine .. 

                                    especially where there are different core models ( 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 

                                    12 ) .. and have a clean install of their software .. with secondary 

                                    hard drives for additional  AJA KONA .. Matrox .. NVidia .. ATI .. 

                                    RAID cards .. etc..

                                     

                                    4.) Adobe should not complain about costs. Apple users have been a 

                                    huge part of their business. Maybe they should have bought 1 million 

                                    shares of stock several years ago when it was $12 a share ... whereas 

                                    it's up past $300 now .. and having capital interest in Apple's 

                                    success. One would think it's important .. like buying Girl Scout 

                                    cookies.

                                     

                                     

                                    I am using standard definition dv and movie files. They could be h.

                                    264 ... but while using multicam the frame rate progressively gets 

                                    worse. I have unresponsive play commands .. sometimes no audio. I 

                                    click everywhere ... stop / start .. and as long as It doesn't 

                                    crash .. I chip away at it in a very frustrating mood.

                                     

                                    I wish I had the time to condense my experiences .. but I have a lot 

                                    to do .. seems like the Mac community is catching on to my problems.

                                     

                                    I'll be amazed when Adobe fixes it .. or is it a combination of Lion, 

                                    the graphics driver, the RAID driver, the Wacom Tablet Driver, .... 

                                    then what about other software?

                                    • 15. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                      needles27 Level 3

                                      I've seen a few various posts on this topic - or this issue buried in Mac posts of numerous problems - which shows it is a definite bug with the software and not just certain setups.  I have also seen posts where Todd from Adobe  says they usually put priority on items based on numbers of people who file bug reports - complaining here in the forums doesn't carry the same weight.

                                      So, I hope everyone that experiences this will file a bug report and hopefully get this taken care of as soon as possible. 

                                      • 16. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                        Manuel Hernandez-Stumpf

                                        Hello everybody, same problem here, I have a macpro model 4.1, snow leopard 10.6.8, 16GB Ram, 2X2.66 Quad Core Intel Xeon, Premiere CS5.5, ATI Radeon HD 4870, matrox MXO2 and 2.2.3 drivers.

                                        Editing 5D and 7D footage in a Premiere CS5.5 native DSLR or Matrox 1080p 23.976 sequence is sluggish. I need real time fluid editing with DSLR footage. I already sent the bug to Adobe, I hope they listen.

                                        • 18. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                          codexplorer Level 1

                                          What about playing the H.264 clips in the source monitor? I have not even reached the timeline that I am already experiencing frustrating lags when trying to preview a clip there. Granted, I am using a still "under-Ram-ed" iMac i7 but selecting 1/4 resolution preview doesn't even play the trick.

                                          Just curious.

                                          • 19. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                            LFedit Level 1

                                            Updating a MacPro 4.1 system to Premiere 5.5.2 on OS 10.6.7 has not changed H.264 performance with or without CUDA enabled.  Anyone with Lion tried the update yet?  Any improvment's in performance?

                                            • 20. Re: H.264 delays in timeline navigation - Mac, CS5.5
                                              needles27 Level 3

                                              I'm on 5.5.1 on Lion, and I think it did improve somewhat (That was supposed to be one of the big features of the .1 update - increasing performance of H.264 scrubbing)  I only see improvement if I'm working in an Adobe timeline, but if I'm on an AJA timeline, the H.264 performance is still pretty sluggish.  I'm hoping for an AJA update soon...it has been a few months.

                                               

                                              Are you not seeing *any* improvement over 5.5 after the 5.5.1 release?