20 Replies Latest reply on Aug 3, 2011 3:19 AM by Sams'tru

    camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop

    ktlim86

      Hi all, I am quite new to use RAW. I have raw files that I want to edit. Unfortunately, the moment I click on the raw files, the color changes.

      Is there anything I should do to the color setting?

      I am using a canon 20d and Adobe Photoshop, Bridge CS 3 and Adobe Camere Raw 4.0

      3.jpg

        • 1. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
          PBoehme

          When you open Bridge, the initial thumbnail view of raw images that you see is from the JPG image that is embedded in the raw file.  The JPG is  camera processed image that uses whatever "picture style" you may have chosen to apply to your image.  However, these picture styles (standard, landscape, portrait, neutral, etc.) are proprietary and most, if not all, camera manufacturers do not disclose the ingredients that go into making up their special "secret sauce".  The reason that they do not share this information is that each of them imagines, rightly or wrongly, that their particular picture styles are discriminators in the marketplace that gives them a competitive advantage.  This means that Adobe and any other third party software company that develops raw converters is not privy to this information.  When you open a raw image in Camera Raw, it must create its own JPG on the fly and apply whatever Adobe "picture style" you have selected as the default from amongst several options.  As soon as the new image settings are applied, Bridge updates the thumbnail image to reflect those changes.  For my Canon cameras, I have the choice of Adobe Standard and a number of "camera" styles which are very similar to the "in-camera" styles.  I prefer using "Camera Neutral" (Adobe's version of Canon Neutral) -- they can't call it Canon Neutral because it isn't -- it is just a very reasonable facsimile.  If you do not like the default picture style that is applied to your images then you can change the default to whatever you prefer.  Check to see what your setting is in your camera and then apply the corresponding style in Camera Raw.

          • 2. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
            Noel Carboni Level 7

            You should run Help - Updates to ensure you have the latest Photoshop 10.0.1 update, and Camera Raw 4.6.

             

            Are you showing some substantially reddish thumbnails because your images are turning red, or is that just a coincidence?

             

            -Noel

            • 3. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
              ktlim86 Level 1

              I have tried to update to the version that you recommend but I cant seem to get rid of the reddish thumbnails.

              The same goes when I open it in photoshop.

              So there is no way that i get rid of it other than tweaking the camera setting?

              I have seen my friend using the same camera, but they didnt get the same problem.

              • 4. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                A color cast could be caused by a video driver that needs updated, an incompatible monitor profile from the display manufacturer, or an accidental Camera RAW default where the WB is set to a specific value instead of As Shot, or one of the Color adjustment sliders (HSL) is set to non-zero, or a non-zero slider in the Camera Calibration area.

                 

                You can usually update your video driver from the manufacturer's website.

                 

                You can change your monitor profile in the Advanced / Color Management area of the Display properties--set it to sRGBxxxxxxxx instead of something that has your monitor name in it.

                 

                You can reset your Camera Raw defaults using the three-lines-arrow at the righthand side of the title bar for the adjustment tabs and at the very bottom of the menu that comes up is Reset Camera RAW Defaults.  Just above it is the Save Camera RAW Defaults which could have been used to inadvertently set things to the adjustments of a particular photo.

                • 5. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                  Noel Carboni Level 7

                  ktlim86 wrote:

                   

                  I have tried to update to the version that you recommend but I cant seem to get rid of the reddish thumbnails.

                   

                  The camera hasn't been modified for astronomical use, has it?  I ask because that involves removal of the AntiAliasing filter that has a cyan color, which turns everything red.

                   

                  -Noel

                  • 6. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                    PBoehme Level 1

                    How do the images look if you process them in DPP (Digital Photo Professional, Canon's raw image converter that came with your 20D)?  Use that as a baseline to help rule out other problems that are not related to problems with settings in your Adobe software.

                    • 7. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                      ktlim86 Level 1

                      I have opening with Canon Digital Photo Professional. It seem that the software is able to read the color correctly. So what shall I do next to eliminate? I have tried changing my video setting in the Color Management but I have no luck.

                      • 8. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                        Noel Carboni Level 7

                        Thumbnails are cached in Bridge.  You have to specifically request that they be regenerated through a menu entry.

                         

                        Are the files opening with the reddish color, or is it just a thumbnail issue?

                         

                        Could you please post one of your raw files (e.g., use YouSendIt.com to send one to yourself, then post the URL).  Other people can then try Bridge and opening it and tell you whether they see the same things as you do.

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                          ktlim86 Level 1

                          Here is the link.

                           

                          https://www.yousendit.com/download/YTY4dFdWeWE3bUN4dnc9PQ

                           

                          I try to do purging but it didnt help as the reddish stint will come back.

                           

                          Just to let know this photo is taken using Infrared camera. When I use the Canon Digital Photo Professional, I have no problem with the reddish stint.

                          • 10. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                            ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            The minimum color temperature in ACR is 2000K.  This image may have something less than that because it has a Custom WB.

                             

                            Using the following tutorial, you can use the DNG Profile Editor to create a custom camera profile with an negative WB offset which, when applied, will product an effective WB Temp less than the minimum of 2000K:

                            http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles:Editor#tutorial_ir

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                              PBoehme Level 1

                              I think it is a bad idea to be changing your video settings unless you found something that was incorrect.  If there was a problem such as wrong video driver or profile, it would have an effect on everything and not just Camera Raw.  When you said that you tried purging, what are you referring to?  I am getting the feeling that the changes that you make are not being retained in the XMP files.  Do you have Cmera Raw set up to use separate XMP files for each image and are they being saved in the same directory as the raw files?  Are you moving the files to a different directory and, if so, are you also moving the XMP files?

                              • 12. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                The purging was from the Bridge thumbnail cache as suggested by another respondent.

                                 

                                No one is suggesting adjusting video settings, just making sure the drivers are up-to-date and there not being an incompatible color profile, like if it is ICC4, which confuse LR and other Adobe products.

                                 

                                However, after experimenting with an  actual photo and reading it is from an Infrared camera, it is clear the issue is that the photo consists of almost entirely red and some white/gray, but that the Canon camera profiles (in the camera and DPP) diminish the red much more than the Adobe profiles, partially, at least, due to the fact that the Adobe white-balance stops at 2000K and the WB temperature number needs to be less than 2000K to make the photo look more like the camera produces.

                                 

                                The way to allow ACR to have a WB less then 2000K is to create a custom camera profile using the DNG Profile Editor and apply that profile to the RAW files.

                                • 13. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                  PBoehme Level 1

                                  ssprengel wrote:

                                   

                                  However, after experimenting with an  actual photo and reading it is from an Infrared camera, it is clear the issue is that the photo consists of almost entirely red and some white/gray .....

                                  That is also my thoughts about the images which for all practical purposes is infrared. There is very little green or blue.  The only reasonable processing is to convert the images to B/W.

                                   

                                  I think that the real issue that the OP was describing was that the editing changes were disappearing for some yet to be determined reason.  That is the reason that I asked about moving files from one directory to another and possibly not moving the XMP files.

                                  • 14. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I didn't see anything about image-edits disappearing in this thread, only that the thumbnail changed from ok-looking to reddish when the thumbnails were clicked on in Bridge, which is Bridge recomputing the thumbnail using default ACR settings instead of the original camera-JPG preview begin shown.  I also did finally see the OP saying they'd updated their video settings in Color Management, which I wouldn't think would be relevant nor advised, as you said.

                                    • 15. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                      Noel Carboni Level 7

                                      The image is indeed rife with red color.

                                       

                                      The fact that the embedded JPEG isn't quite as oversaturated with red as Adobe's conversion with the lowest color temperature of 2000 just says that Canon's conversions have more range at the low-end of the color temperature setting.

                                       

                                      This is the color from the embedded JPEG.  Clearly it's dominated by a reddish-orange color, though not as red as that from Adobe's software.

                                      EmbeddedJPEG.jpg

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      This is the color from Adobe Camera Raw's conversion at the (low-end minimum) color temperature of 2000:

                                      ACR2000.jpg

                                       

                                      This is the photo converted with Canon DPP using "click white balance" on the bridge beam on the left:

                                      DPP_ClickWB.jpg

                                       

                                      Note, however, that (though the dropper seems to have incredible range) DPP does not allow you to specifically SET a color temperature lower than 2500K, which yields this color:

                                      DPP_2500KWB.jpg

                                       

                                      The bottom line here is that the "Click White Balance" function in Canon's DPP has far more range than ACR, where even the white balance dropper "mins out" at 2000K.

                                       

                                      That's something the Adobe folks may want to look into, to extend the range of ACR's capabilities to suit this kind of IR photography.

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        I would guess that Adobe lowering 2000K WB-Temp limit value would invalidate all their current color profiles and redoing everything for a small market of IR photographers is a tradeoff they chose on purpose.  Someone that is sophisticated enough to do IR with a DSLR is also likely sophisticated enough to create a color profile with the DNG Profile Editor with a reasonably simple and clear tutorial.

                                         

                                        If the OP is still confused as to what to do then further questions can be answered.

                                        • 17. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                          ktlim86 Level 1

                                          Thanks all for the replies! I try the tutorial posted by ssprengel and so far I am able to tune back the colour. I guess I have to use the DNG editor for future Infrared photography.

                                          • 18. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                            ktlim86 Level 1

                                            There is another thing. If I adjust it in the DNG editor, if I export the profile, then where am I going to export the profile to? Because I am going to use on other RAW file.

                                            • 19. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                              PBoehme Level 1

                                              This may be a special case, but normally profiles are created by photographing an xrite/Gretag/Macbeth color checker chart (the 24 color patch chart).  Creating a profile for cameras that have been converted to IR use is something that I am not familiar with, but I doubt that you could expect anything resembling "normal" results.

                                               

                                              The profile goes in the same location as other user created profiles for Camera Raw.  The location on your computer may be different, but on my Windows PC running XP, the ACR loction for camera profiles is:

                                               

                                              C: > Documents and Settings > your name > Appliction Data > Adobe > Camera Raw > Camera Profiles.

                                               

                                              When you are running Camera Raw, the profiles are found under the Camera Calibration tab.

                                               

                                              Normally, infrared images are converted to grayscale since the image is, for all practical purposes, monochrome anyway.  Sometime faux colors are used in thermal imaging, but that is not really related to normal IR photography.  Go to the fourth tab in ACR and check the box that says "Convert to Grayscale".  I made a comparison of ACR and DPP and ws able to get something that a bit more "normal" in ACR by using all of the color adjustments at my disposal.  I never saw the issue that you mentioned about the thumbnails displaying differently that the image when it is opened.

                                              • 20. Re: camera raw changes color in adobe bridge and photoshop
                                                Sams'tru

                                                I don't know if this is directly relevant here, but check this out:

                                                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/850152?tstart=0