22 Replies Latest reply on Sep 21, 2011 4:48 AM by klfi

    1080p monitor recommedation

    Jon-M-Spear Level 4

      I am looking to buy a 20-22" full HD LCD/LED monitor/TV to be driven by my BM Intensity Pro via HDMI. 

       

      I recently bought a Flatron 22" LED TV.  The only trouble is that, used in monitor mode via HDMI, the secondary colours cannot be adjusted - and the cyan is so far out that it's not useable. 

       

      A £1,000 - £2,000 Sony refernce monitor is out of my league.  Does any one here have any experience of a half-decent 1920x1080 monitor or LED TV that works adequately as a video preview monitor  - and one that that can be adjusted sufficiently to be acceptable (subjective, I know!)

       

      I had my eye on the new sony 22" LED TV until I realised that it was 720p.  Shame, because the Sony colour engine is excellent.

       

      Thanks in advance.

        • 2. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
          Jon-M-Spear Level 4

          Not me, it doesn't.  It's all double Dutch to me, Harm ;-)

          • 3. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
            jkosmicki Level 2

            I use a Dell U2410, it's 24" not 20-22" and it is 1920x2100, but it is an awesome monitor for broadcast use. I run an HD-SDI out of a Blackmagic Decklink card to a HDLink Pro box, then DisplayPort to the monitor. The monitor has full control over color adjustment, and also includes sRGB and aRGB presets that are pretty accurate. It is definitely one of the best monitors on the market and is way better than anything you will find in consumer-grade TVs.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 4. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
              Jon-M-Spear Level 4

              Thanks jkosmicki.  can the ratio be adjusted to 16:9 monitor-side?  I ask because I hooked up a 16:10 iiyama monitor and could not change the ratio to 16:9.  The BM Intensity Pro does not offer that facility off the card, so it must be monitor-side.

              • 5. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                Jim_Simon Level 9
                one that that can be adjusted sufficiently to be acceptable (subjective, I know!)

                 

                Actually, monitor calibration is anything but subjective.  There's a very precise science behind proper calibration.

                 

                http://www.imagingscience.com/

                • 6. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                  jkosmicki Level 2

                  I haved used the monitor with a Decklink card, an UltraStudio Pro card and a Decklink card with the HDLink Pro box using both DisplayPort and HDMI, and it has always been 16:9 with black letterboxing. I have not seen ever had to set the ratio in the monitor, but there is a setting to adjust the image to "fill", "aspect" or "1:1". I think that would do what you need.

                  • 7. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                    Frédéric Segard Level 2

                    But can you calibrate a monitor with a software hooked to a BMD or AJA I/O device? Understandably, a computer monitor can be easily calibrated with a calibration puck. But can one accurately (and scientifically) calibrate such a monitor on an I/O card? I'd be very interrested to know how, and if such a thing exists. Asside from the subjective color bar + blue filter method! We all know what NTSC really stands for, right?

                    • 8. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                      Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                      Jim, I know exactly how to calibrate a professional reference monitor.  The point you missed was that, being a consumer model, there may not necessarily be the comprehensive facilities required to do so.

                       

                      That's why I used the word subjective.

                      • 9. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                        Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                        Fortunately Fredric, I'm not from Not Twice Same Colour land, I'm from Perhaps Almost Lifelike land.

                         

                        Completely OT, but can anyone tell me how to disable this ludicrous word wrap that happens on the Adobe forums?  There's no rhyme nor reason to  it.

                        • 10. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                          Jim_Simon Level 9

                          But can you calibrate a monitor with a software hooked to a BMD or AJA I/O device?

                           

                          If the monitor has HDMI, just hook it up to a Blu-ray for calibration.

                          • 12. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                            Jim_Simon Level 9
                            The point you missed was that, being a consumer model, there may not necessarily be the comprehensive facilities required to do so.

                             

                            I didn't miss that.  I wasn't implied in any way.

                             

                            Even with a consumer model, it's really not a subjective process.  But, many don't know that.  And I didn't know that you did know that.  So, I corrected.

                            • 13. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                              Frédéric Segard Level 2

                              JSS1138 wrote:

                               

                              But can you calibrate a monitor with a software hooked to a BMD or AJA I/O device?

                               

                              If the monitor has HDMI, just hook it up to a Blu-ray for calibration.

                               

                              Please excuse my ignorance in consumer calibration techniques...  Really? Bluray? Didn't know that!  How? Is it any good?  I guess I'm too pampered with blue-guns!

                               

                              I'd be curious to know, because I'm thinking of getting a consumer 42" or 46" LCD or Plasma to put on the wall of my edit room, so I can see my edits on a consumer screen as my clients would... And most importantly to increase the wow-factor of my clients that are breathing down my neck.  Never underestimate the power of cheap marketing! lol

                              • 14. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                Jim_Simon Level 9

                                I use the Spears & Munsil Blu-ray for calibration.  It includes a blue filter for displays that do not have a blue-only setting (which is always nice if your display has one).

                                • 15. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                  Frédéric Segard Level 2

                                  Super! I just ordered it.  Thanks for the reference. :-)

                                  • 16. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                    Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                                    If it's not one thing...;-)

                                     

                                    Okay, so I now have an HDMI external monitor that works pretty well have with the BM Intensity Pro.  Editing XDCAM 1080 50i is a treat but, to my horror...

                                     

                                    I had a choice recently of shooting 25p or 50i - and I chose 25p.

                                     

                                    Bad, bad idea.

                                     

                                    The BM Intensity Pro does not support 25p - the monitor indicated a timing mis-match.

                                     

                                    How do people here externally monitor a 25p edit on a 3rd monitor without spending a fortune on grown-up 3rd party cards such as the BM HD Extreme?  I know that I can use the 2nd monitor on my Quadro FX 3800, but that entirely defeats the object of a 3rd one.

                                     

                                    All suggestions greatly appreciated.  

                                    • 17. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                      klfi Level 1

                                      Hi guys,

                                      with interest i followed your comments.

                                       

                                      A  Dell U 2410 for me is a little bit to small.

                                       

                                      My questions:

                                      1. can Dell U 3011 or Dell 2711 be compared in quality and options with U 2410 ? (connections, calibration, color space etc)

                                      2. you discused for preview Dell 2410 versus LCD/plasma 40-42". What in general is the difference for preview using a PC-monitor (Dell 2410/2711/3011)  or a TV LCD (for examole, Sony or NEC), especially when bouth will be calibrated as good as possible.

                                      3. What are the advantages in using a professional preview monitor (for ex Sony, panasonic, plura, marshall)...exept of the 4-8 times more costs.

                                       

                                      I dont work for broadcast but with the whish to get max privat/amateur video quality in editing.

                                       

                                      thanks for your explenations an experiences!

                                      klfi

                                      • 18. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                        Frédéric Segard Level 2

                                        Hi Kifi,

                                         

                                        It all depends on what you want to do. The problem with the 30" and 27" monitors is that your going higher then native resolution (2560x1600). Will you be using this monitor as a standalone display only for your video output? If yes, then I recommend a monitor that is closer to 1920x1080 (or 1920x1200). Otherwise, if you go 2560x1600, first, you'll need a dual-link capable video card; second, some people reported playback artifacts in full screen 2560x1600 (mileage may vary). In my case, I'm using a 23" NEC connected to a BlackMagic card, and 2 other NECs to the GTX580 for my workspace. I also purchased a 42" LG LED LCD.

                                         

                                        The advantage of getting a good IPS computer monitor, is to be able to take advantage of a high gamut of colors (to a certain extend), at the fraction of the cost. It's not perfect, as a computer monitor works in the RGB color space, and video in YUV. But even with the conversion, a monitor that can do at least 70% NTSC (or PAL) color gamut, will give something that is good enough (good enough for most editors). There are monitors that to 90% NTSC too. Whereas, with conventional LCDs or Plasmas, it's not the case. You loose a lof of dynamic range in the highs and lows. So you can't accurately monitor color information adequately on a large consumer TV.  The reason I have one, is to see what the client will see, blow up the details to spot anomalies, test out Blurays, etc. But I monitor on the 23".

                                         

                                        Down the road, I will get a broadcast monitor. But as you say, it is extremely expensive. I have other priorities for now. The advantages of a broadcast monitor are many: 10-bit, multiple inputs including HDSDI, 100% NTSC (or PAL) color gamut, blue gun for professional calibration... and that's just to name a few. Basically, what you see is what you get. Real color correction is done on these. You can never go wrong with one... aside from the sudden vacuum it will generate in your bank account.

                                        • 19. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                          Jim_Simon Level 9

                                          What in general is the difference for preview using a PC-monitor (Dell 2410/2711/3011)  or a TV LCD (for examole, Sony or NEC), especially when bouth will be calibrated as good as possible.

                                           

                                          Not all computer monitors will offer the full range of calibration adjustments needed to bring the monitor into proper alignment.  That's why TVs (or professional video monitors) are best.

                                          • 20. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                            klfi Level 1

                                            Thanks Frederic for yr explanations.

                                             

                                            What do i do...

                                            I use Sony PMW F3 8 bit 4.2.0.

                                             

                                            For editing PPR 5.5 workspace is running on 2 low cost TV-LCD 32". For only monitoring i use a simple PC - monitor 24" connected on Blackmagic multibride.

                                            For my color corrections i am not satisfied, i am not able to see exactely what id do. 

                                            My further intentions are to have a very good possibility to "see as good as possible" what i do. I have intentions to grade up Sony F3 to S-log and record 4.2.2 or further 4.4.4. (10 bit).

                                            As i understand yr explanations full color space of the recorded footage under this upgrading-circumstances (4.2.2 or 4.4.4) can only be handeld in a good way using a broadcast monitor. For this maybe a DELL 1920x1080 will not be the right choice. Is my conclusion right (and the sudden vacuum has be filld up..in which way ever).

                                             

                                            For my understanding. If i will burn the edited files on BlueRay (max 25 Mbts) or stream them from a NAS-server, will i see the difference between 8bit (4.2.0) and 10 bit (4.2.2. or 4.4.4) files on a big TV-LCD oder home-cinema beamer ?

                                             

                                            thanks for yr help and greatings from austria, klfi

                                            • 21. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                              Frédéric Segard Level 2

                                              Just to be clear, an authored Bluray is always 8-bit.

                                               

                                              The advantage of getting a 10-bit display, is see the nuances in color (1024 shades of each RGB, instead of 256), and to a better job of color correction. But ultimately, the end result on Bluray is decimated to 8-bit.

                                               

                                              Unless you do heavy compositing and shoot lots of greenscreen, there is no need to go 4:4:4 10-bit.  It just uses more storage and bandwith for not much benefit. Of course, this largely depends on what you do and what audience you usually target.  I find shooting 4:2:2 8-bit to be more then enough in most circumstances. But somtimes I edit 10-bit uncompressed material, and I also shoot AVC Intra 10-bit at times.

                                               

                                              In my case, I have to be budget concious. I'm purchasing a lot of equipment in one shot. So I couldn't afford 10-bit displays for not. But I opted for good NEC 8-bit IPS monitors. Eventually, like I stated the other day, it is my intention to get a broadcast monitor. But for now, it's good enough... coupled with an LCD LED TV.

                                              • 22. Re: 1080p monitor recommedation
                                                klfi Level 1

                                                Thanks Frederic

                                                klfi