26 Replies Latest reply on Jul 27, 2011 7:53 AM by Peter Spier

    justify 2 columns

    noahm123 Level 1

      Hi, I'm creating a 2 column Book, and I need that the 2 columns should look justified at the to and the bottom of the page, Now, there is an option if I go to "Text Frame Options" (Ctrl +B) and checking the "Vertical Justification" check box, but what that will do is, it will use the hole text frame to justify the paragraphs,and in case I half blank page (at he end of a chapter for example) it will mess up my page, I need an idea to keep the letters as it is but just the top and bottom line the 2 columns of the page should be even, and it may leave extra space between the paragraphs not between lines,

      like this example:

      1.jpg

      (the letters are Hebrew Letters)

       

       

      My page looks like this:

       

      2.jpg

      Notice the difference at the very bottom of the 2 columns.

      do anyone have any idea for me ? it will be for me a big help

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: justify 2 columns
          Grant H Level 4

          firstly if you are spliting text into columns you must align to grid thus thwarting your Vertical justification...

           

          I sec: someone calling me (lol)

          • 2. Re: justify 2 columns
            Grant H Level 4

            ok: Aligning to grid so that the body text aligns (duh)...

             

            If you have created Paragraph styles and asigned them corectly you can adjust the justification untill last line drops or edit the text...

             

            G

            • 3. Re: justify 2 columns
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              In order to maintain a baseline grid your space before/after values must casue the next line to align with the grid, or you must explicitly align to grid in yor paragraph style (and set the grid properly). In your example, though, you have another problem. It looks as if you have keep options set to keep at least two lines together at teh end of a paragraph. In this case that is causing the last line in the right column to be blank, in addition to the lack of alignment to the grid.

              • 4. Re: justify 2 columns
                Fred Goldman Level 3

                That looks like a nice sefer!  Select the text frame and go to Object>Text Frame Options... and under Justification set it to Vertically justified.

                • 5. Re: justify 2 columns
                  noahm123 Level 1

                  To Peter: Thanks for answering. Your right, I had set it up with keep options, but even when I take it off it doesn't help I need the last 2 lines to be even, even if I align it to baseline grid it will snap all the lines to the grid and the last line leave it flow after, when in my case I need just the opposite, look the example I showed

                  • 6. Re: justify 2 columns
                    noahm123 Level 1

                    Thanks for replying:

                    but as I wrote, that this will Justify even if I left a half blank page which in this case it will just mess up my page, because my text boxes are full pages

                    • 7. Re: justify 2 columns
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      I'm not sure what you are asking. There are TWO problems in that example -- baseline misalignment due to paragraph spacing (change the spacing), and a keep option that is leaving a balnk line at the bottom of the right column (remove the keep option, or shorten the frame by one line). You cannot solve both problems at the same time, they need different solutions.

                      • 8. Re: justify 2 columns
                        Fred Goldman Level 3

                        Are you using CS5? It has an option to Balance Columns in the text frame options dialog. Otherwise you will have to manaully pick up the frame.

                        • 9. Re: justify 2 columns
                          Fred Goldman Level 3

                          Peter,

                           

                          It looks to me that even if he would have his keep options turned off that last line wouldn't fit. His text frame is a little too small. The space before of the paragraph in the left column is not the same amount as his leading.

                          • 10. Re: justify 2 columns
                            noahm123 Level 1

                            Your right, that that's what causing the problem, but what can I do I need space after each paragraph and I need the keep options to leave at least 2 lines together, and in this case it should break before the 2 lines and the right column should extend space between paragraphs (like the "Vertical Justification" option in CS5, by the way I have CS5)

                            • 11. Re: justify 2 columns
                              Fred Goldman Level 3

                              Use vertical justification and balance columns checked on. Then if the second column is blank it will even out the two cloumns putting (if possible) the same amount of lines in each column.

                              • 12. Re: justify 2 columns
                                noahm123 Level 1

                                yes, I'm using CS5, but balanceing columnes doesn't help for this it just if lft some blank space at the 2'nd coloumn, it evens them out as if the text frame was smaller but doesn't justify the last line

                                • 13. Re: justify 2 columns
                                  Fred Goldman Level 3

                                  It works here. Could it be you haven't deleted the final paragraph mark? Take a look at these screenshots:

                                   

                                  Before deleting the final paragraph mark:

                                  Before.GIF

                                  After deleting the final paragraph mark:

                                   

                                  After.GIF

                                  • 14. Re: justify 2 columns
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    Fred, you could be correct and it's just coincidental that there is enough extra space to hold one more line on the left with the baselines out of synch, but if the layout is the same height as the other example above, I think not.  If that's the case though, the text frame dimensions should probably be altered to end at the bottom of a leading slug or a baseline.

                                     

                                    And regardless of whether this particular frame is suffering from a keep options blank, there is always the potential for that someplace in the text. While Balance Columns will do a pretty good job of balancing the columns in the last frame of a thread, it won't do anything for a blank line left in mid-thread because of a keep option.

                                    • 15. Re: justify 2 columns
                                      noahm123 Level 1

                                      yes, but when I will have a page with half page blank (like at the end of a chapter) it will expand the lines to the hole page

                                      also I will have a problem in a case it wont be able to balance the columns, for example when in the 1'st column it will be 3 lines and in the 2'nd it will left only 2 lines it will look horrible like this:

                                      3.jpg

                                      or like this:

                                      4.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: justify 2 columns
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here because I don't read Hebrew. Does text thread from page to page in this text? Do any paragraphs cross a page boundary ( I can see the cross columns)?

                                         

                                        I personally have a fundamental dislike for using vertically justified text as a way to make the top and bottom of adjacent columns line up as it has the potential to create vastly differnt spacings and misaligned lines all through the columns which I find extremely distracting, but I suppose that's a matter of taste.

                                         

                                        If you need space between paragraphs I think it is best to make that space equal to the leading value of the type, if you are talking about spacing in the body text, or and amount that will push the next line to that same baseline grid if you are talking about something like a heading which is using a different type specification.

                                        • 17. Re: justify 2 columns
                                          noahm123 Level 1

                                          Hebrew is the same as English except that Hebrew letters go from right to left

                                          the text threads

                                          and I didn't got the idea of how to make space between 2 paragraphs I need that the space between paragraphs should be more then the leading between too lines

                                          • 18. Re: justify 2 columns
                                            noahm123 Level 1

                                            What do U mean with a final paragraph mark, how do I get it and delete it?

                                            • 19. Re: justify 2 columns
                                              Larry G. Schneider Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Right, but it has to be a multiple of the base leading for the lines to match. If your body text is set 10/12, then the Space Before (or After) needs to be twice the interline leading or in the case above 24 pt.

                                              • 20. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                If you make the paragraph spacing equal to the leading value it will be the same space as if you hit the enter key to make a blank line. That appears to me to be what you want.

                                                • 21. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                  noahm123 Level 1

                                                  so u mean to say that I should hit 2 times enter?

                                                  • 22. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                    Fred Goldman Level 3

                                                    In those two examples you showed you need to do some manual work to gain a line or loosen the text to add a line. You should do that using the justification options (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+J) and adjust the word/letter/glyph settings.

                                                     

                                                    However, in general, Peter is correct. You want to set up your margins so that your text frame is a mutiple of the leading. For example, if your text has a 14pt leading you should set up your margins so that your text frame is a multiple of 14 (i. e. 280pts for 20 lines per page). Same goes for headings and space after paragraphs. A full 14 pts may be too much for space after in between paragraphs so you may want to go with 7. The point is you want vertical justification to change your leading as few times as possible, only as a last resort. Columns look much better when they line up.

                                                    • 23. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                      noahm123 Level 1

                                                      Thank I will try that

                                                      • 24. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                        noahm123 wrote:

                                                         

                                                        so u mean to say that I should hit 2 times enter?

                                                        No, not really. That will give you the blank space you want, but it also can leave a blank line at the top of a column. You want to, instead, add either an amount for "Space Before" or "Space After" (it's under Indents and Spacing) in the Paragraph Style defiinition. Set this space amount equal to the leading in use for the type.

                                                         

                                                        Fred, any chance you could explain this in Hebrew? I'm suspecting there may be a small language difficulty here.

                                                        • 25. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                          noahm123 Level 1

                                                          I understand what U mean to say, U mean that I should set up the space after

                                                          like double or triple of the leading used in the type (for example 30pt, if

                                                          my leading is 15) I just didn't understand before what U mean with "equal

                                                          amount" (I thought U the "same" amount)

                                                           

                                                          Even though its not the affect I'm really looking for, because I don't want

                                                          such a big space, I rather want the space between the paragraphs should be

                                                          about 1.5 of the amount of the type leading and it should change the amount

                                                          according to the need of that specific column, as the same idea as the

                                                          "Vertical Justification" option (in the text frame options) that its

                                                          possible to align it to justify and then increase the "Paragraph Spacing

                                                          Limit", the only disadvantage from that is, that this is an options to the

                                                          "text box" so it will stretch out till the end of my page even I only have a

                                                          half of a page fill. Unless I would manually make smaller the text box of those pages I nead to.

                                                          • 26. Re: justify 2 columns
                                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                            If you want the spacing to be increased only between paragraphs and not between lines within the paragraph it's possible to do that with vertical justification. Set the paragraph sapcing to soomething ridiculously large and all the space will be added between paragraphs:

                                                            Vertical Justification Spacing.png

                                                             

                                                            This is a very neat trick for forcing one paragraph at the top and one at the bottom of a frame, but isn't always going to do what you want, I think. It will work marvelously mid-thread or if you have many paragraphs in the column in the last frame, but can leave a huge gap in the middle with only two:

                                                            Vertical Justification Spacing 2.png

                                                             

                                                            This is pretty much the same thing as you discovered earlier.

                                                             

                                                            Adding space after equal to a multiple of the leading (and setting the frame to top aligned) will continue to make the top and bottom of the column align, and all of the lines will ALWAYS be horizontally aligned across columns. Using vertical justification, the top and bottom will align, but the positioning of intermediate lines will depend on the justification settings and the number of paragraphs in the column (which determines how the extra space is divided). If there is no Paragraph break in the column, the line spacing will be adjusted.

                                                             

                                                            This is basically an either/or proposition. You can use the baseline grid and a consistent spacing, or you can use vertical justifcation and variable spacing, but risk the near certainly that the last frame is going to have some sort of issue much of the time. You can "correct" that last frame manually by removing the vertical justification and adjusting the paragraph spacing or balancing the columns, but you cannot get away from misaligned text mid-column or the potential for too-large paragraph/line spacing when you use vertical justification.