24 Replies Latest reply on Aug 5, 2011 12:43 PM by Peter Spier

    Print output too large

    toytoyboyboy

      InDesign CS2, Windows XP, Canon Pro9000

       

      I've used this printer previously on a Mac with no problem, but today for the first time I installed it on my Windows computer and cannot figure out why the image/page that prints out is larger than what the document size actually is.

       

      The document size in InDesign is 2.5 x 4.675 inches

      But what is printing out is a size 4.75 x 8 13/16 inches.

      The best I can figure out it is printing to fill the letter size paper.

      But I do not have "Scale to Fit" checked in the dialog box. In fact it is greyed out (for some reason) and it can't be chosen.

      Also, what is odder to me, I had checked the "Tile" option as I figured I could print 4 document pages per piece of paper page.

       

      I understand that there can be a sort of "testy" relationship between InDesign's print dialog menu and the printer driver dialog menu (through the Setup option). Just the same I've tried any number of options in the printer driver menus, trying and not trying to tile from there. But again I have NOT had any scaling chosen there. Only trying to tile or not tile from the driver. No matter what I choose the output of this 4.75 x 8 13/16 size always comes out.

       

      Help!

        • 1. Re: Print output too large
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          OK, first off, tiling does not do what you are attempting. It is used to print large documents full size in "tiles" on smaller sheets of paper, and then you manually assemble the tiles into one large print.

           

          Check both the print dialog and the print driver for specific scale values as well as scale to print.

          • 2. Re: Print output too large
            toytoyboyboy Level 1

            Well at first I was going to respond with "D'Oh! How could I be so stupid?" and then thank you profusely. But that was before I tried it with the "Tile" option unchecked. I can see that it was probably trying to enlarge a small image to best fit a whole tile.

             

            I unchecked it. Now it prints out two sheets of past markings (no image) and worse, when it prints the image, the YMK are printin in register (although now with horizontal scan lines as if it is misprinting) and the C color is about 3/4 of an inch over to the right.

             

            I'll play around with this some more, but the first images, even though too big, were printing out fine. Very odd now that it does this!

            • 3. Re: Print output too large
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              First thing I would do is reinstall the printer.

              • 4. Re: Print output too large
                toytoyboyboy Level 1

                Good Idea.

                'Cuz now I tried to print it using "thumbnail 4x4"  option, the preview was perfect - for of my small InDesign pages fit on  one letter size piece of paper....

                 

                and voila, it printed the top of just the upper left image in YELLOW only.

                That's it.

                 

                So now I've reinstalled the printer. I confess I had problems the first time getting Windows to find the downloaded package and in frustration just installed the generic 9000 series drivers. The problem was "hidden" sub-folders which I corrected and found in the reinstallation.

                 

                So, now I have new problems. Or perhaps the same one as before.

                 

                I first tried printing out one page (tiled using 2x2 thumbnails from InDesign's dialog). The printer thought and thought and thought about it until it timed out. Troubleshooting suggested I print something out of WordPad. I printed "the" out of a WordPad document just fine. So then I tried again to print one page same as before. This time it printed perfectly.


                So.... I went for the whole shebang: 200 pages in the InDesign document, tiled at 2x2 so it would be a total of 50 pages.

                 

                The first page printed out all four tiled images...... but only in yellow!!!!!!!!!!!!

                I didn't change one iota of a setting from the first successful test to this.

                 

                Memory problem?

                • 5. Re: Print output too large
                  toytoyboyboy Level 1

                  ai yi yi yi yi.... just after posting previous message, I tried again to just print pages 1-4 (tiled 2x2 so it would all print on one page)

                  JUST LIKE THE TEST which previously printed fine. No other settings changes.

                   

                  This time, again, only yellow, but now instead of at least printing a clean set of tiles, it started printing the top of pages 5 and 6, just about 1/3 way down, then proceeded to print tiles 1 and 2 as if on top of 5 and 6, and tried to fit 3 and 4 below but ran out of space (due to it starting with 5 and 6).

                   

                  So the question becomes Which should I hate most, Canon or Microsoft or Adobe?

                  • 6. Re: Print output too large
                    toytoyboyboy Level 1

                    I should add also that before I did ANYTHING I cleaned all the heads, and the test page for both cleaning and alignment was perfect.


                    • 7. Re: Print output too large
                      toytoyboyboy Level 1

                      Ok, now I got it to work again although all I did was a "deep cleaning" which was certainly not necessary since it already had printed out all 4 colors, in register previously.

                       

                      The only change I made was in InDesign's dialog graphics tab, and changed the "Send Data" from "optimized subsampling" to "All". I have no idea if that helped because it had printed out ok using the subsampling setting.

                       

                      Anyway, now the problem is that it is saturated and much to "red" in color. I have it set for Matt photo paper and high quality (in the Canon driver settings).

                       

                      Sigh.

                      • 8. Re: Print output too large
                        toytoyboyboy Level 1

                        Now I changed the Color Management setting from "Matte Photo Paper" to sRGBIEC61966-2.1. The preview looked VERy promising. Less saturated, more accurate color... and.... it printed out using just YELLOW and BLACK.

                         

                        Making progress at least I now have 2 colors going. Only 2 more to go and I'm good to go.

                         

                        ....

                         

                        I'm feeling like a reality TV show with all these posts. Is anyone watching? 

                        • 9. Re: Print output too large
                          toytoyboyboy Level 1

                          Changed profile (again) to Canon's "generic" profile.

                          Just printed yellow and black, like the previous sRGB profile.

                          • 10. Re: Print output too large
                            toytoyboyboy Level 1

                            OK Printing Failure Fans, I thought I found the answer. In Canon's online troubleshooting it suggested turning OFF to "None" any color management in the printer driver itself if I want the application to control it. Otherwise it suggests "unpredictable results". So, I turn it off.

                             

                            I have the color profile set back to the sRGB (because that has at least given me the best color PREVIEW). But now it just times out. It seems to take too long to send stuff to the printer. And this time (unlike when it timed out when I tried to print all 200 pages) I was only printing 4 pages (tiled on one piece of paper).

                             

                            I wouldn't wish these problems on my enemies.... well maybe Mitch McConnell, but let's not go there.

                            • 11. Re: Print output too large
                              toytoyboyboy Level 1

                              PROGRESS!

                               

                              Using "Color Match" profile, it printed one piece of paper of a tile of 4 pages, and it's up to 3 colors!!!  Yellow, Magenta and Black.

                               

                              Considering all the time I'm wasting, maybe it will be quicker that I just paint in the Cyan by hand?

                              • 12. Re: Print output too large
                                toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                And to add insult to injury, I now find that the Yellow cartridge (the one ink that is certain to print) is empty.

                                 

                                Go figure.

                                 

                                I'm open now to Karmic theories.

                                • 13. Re: Print output too large
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  Sorry, been sidelined with a migraine all day.

                                   

                                  What do you get if you export the file to PDF and print from Acrobat?

                                   

                                  We usually see this sort of trouble with HP printers, but that doesn't mean it's exclusive. Is this a Postscript printer, or some other language, and if Postscript, is it genuine Adobe, or some emulation?

                                  • 14. Re: Print output too large
                                    toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                    ah my hero is back. sorry about your migraine. i've been having a canon-induced one myself. i was working on

                                    this for literally 6 hours.

                                     

                                    but considering now that i've run out or at least low on yellow (ordered more) now i'm not sure whether it's worth testing until i get more.

                                     

                                    you have a good idea trying through acrobat. never thought of that, although I dont have Acro pro, just reader, if that matters.

                                     

                                    instruction manual says absolutely nothing about Postscript. but considering the level of printer it is, shouldnt I assume it can handle PS?

                                     

                                     

                                    i have to stop for today. it's been too much. I'll try your suggestion tomorrow and post results here.

                                     

                                    thanks so much for paying attention to this. i hope it hasn't exacerbated your migraine!

                                    • 15. Re: Print output too large
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      Presume nothing. But IF it is a postscript printer, you should make sure you have the postscript printer driver installed.

                                       

                                      ID and some printers just don't get along, especially postscript emulations. As I mentiuoned, it usually turns out to be HP. but it isn't always. The standard workaround is to print from PDF instead, and using Reader is fine.

                                       

                                      I actually print most files from PDF even though my printer gets along fine with ID. First, I'm printing the same file I'll be sending to the commercial printer, and second, it almost always processes and prints faster from Acrobat than from ID.

                                      • 16. Re: Print output too large
                                        toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                        So is the idea that Acrobat embeds the postscript stuff in a way that ID does not?

                                         

                                        I just double checked the Canon site to see if I missed another driver. But there is only ONE driver available. It says nothing about Postscript, so now I'm thinking maybe it is NOT postscript. hmmm....

                                         

                                        Again, I'll try this tomorrow. We may be onto something here.


                                        Thanks 'gain.

                                        • 17. Re: Print output too large
                                          Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                          If this is a “Canon PIXMA Pro9000” printer, it is really a special purpose high quality photo image printer that does not support PostScript. Its primary use is for printing photos from Photoshop and is optimized for that. It is not a CMYK printer, but rather, an eight color printer including not only CMYK, but special cyan, special magenta, red, and green inks as well. This type of printer, also available from Epson and others, typically has a secret sauce color management scheme built into its drivers to render RGB using the expanded gamut afforded by all these inks. Unless you use very special (and sometimes well obscured) driver settings, the driver assumes that input is sRGB. And there are often numerous other “added value features” invoked through the driver. These often don't play well with applications that don't expect such features. That could be what is happening here.

                                           

                                          With Adobe applications, problems printing are often resolved by exporting a PDF file and printing subsequently from either the current or a very recent version of Acrobat or Adobe Reader.

                                           

                                          Again, this is not a PostScript printer!!!

                                           

                                                    - Dov

                                          • 18. Re: Print output too large
                                            toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                            ai yi yi yi yi!!!

                                             

                                            ok i hear you.

                                             

                                            i have to say that as old as this printer is, i bought it a long time ago (when I was flush) and then didn't have much use for it since most my work didn't need color tests like I do now.

                                             

                                            sounds like i made a very stupid choice of printer. 

                                            but also sounds like at least i have a workaround through acrobat.

                                             

                                            thanks very much for your reply.

                                            • 19. Re: Print output too large
                                              toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                              OK, so in our last episode we left poor widdle Toyboy trying to print out an InDesign document with a non-postscript printer, and poor widdle Toyboy had lost allllllll his widdle wellow ink and had to wait a whooooooole week to get more. Poor poor Toyboy.

                                               

                                              But today Toyboy got a visit from Fedex! "What's this?" Toyboy asked as he was given a box. "A package" said the Fedex delivery expert. (God's honest truth that.) And lo, there was ink. And lo, it was good.

                                               

                                              So to cut to the chase:

                                               

                                              I made a PDF output to print out of Acrobat, which as I understand the suggestion, would send proper information to a non-postscript printer. I got all the settings in place and proceeded to print one page (of 50) as a test. The machine went through what sounded like a start up procedure: a rolling of wheels, some little "jerk" sounds of gears moving something, back to the rolling of wheels, another little gear jerk sound, back to the rolling of wheels for well over a couple minutes until, of course, it all timed out and sent up such a message that the print job was going to cancel. It started deleting in the queue, all while the machine was STILL doing its little whirring sounds, and then all of a sudden, it fed a paper in, and it sounded like it was starting to print and then stopped. My best explanation for this was that the machine accepts "some" of the information for a print job, even though the job was ending after a time out. In other words, time outs are only partial time outs as far as the machine figures it.

                                               

                                              And suffice to say, it was starting to print out all yellow again.

                                               

                                              Now this was with turning OFF color management in the printer driver settings (which was recommended by Canon as being a possible conflict with an app that wants to control the color). But I just tried it AGAIN with the driver color management turned on (to AUTO).

                                               

                                              Again. All yellow.

                                               

                                              So the question for today I suppose is, what exactly did Dov Isaacs mean when he made the suggestion to try printing out of Acrobat? How does that workaround Postscript? Doesn't Acrobat send out PS printer info stuff just like anything else?

                                               

                                              Sigh.

                                              • 20. Re: Print output too large
                                                toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                                Never mind!

                                                 

                                                Problem solved!!

                                                 

                                                And I'm much too embarassed to say in public how the problem was solved!!!

                                                 

                                                Signed,

                                                The Anonymous Idiot

                                                • 21. Re: Print output too large
                                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                  Actaully , it would really help other users if you would sahre what the problem was. We have another post today from someone with the same printer and he wants to know about color management settings, which I suspect have something to do with your problem.

                                                   

                                                  It's not like you're using you real name, so we won't point at you in the street and laugh (and you are not the first, nor the last to make a rookie mistake).

                                                  • 22. Re: Print output too large
                                                    bmann11

                                                    How did you turn off color management on your printer?  Thanks

                                                    • 23. Re: Print output too large
                                                      toytoyboyboy Level 1

                                                      Peter it wasn't a rookie mistake. It really was an idiotic mistake. I had no idea that there was another model called a Pro9000  Mark II available, and when I went to the Canon site, I must have just hit the wrong google search result and I was on the page for the "Mark II" where I downloaded the drivers.

                                                       

                                                      So, when  tech guy at Canon just casually mentioned I might have the wrong drivers, that's when I started taking "Mark II" seriously enough. I found just the Pro9000 page, and sure enough, it had a different file to download, I installed that, and boom, it printed.

                                                       

                                                      Although I have to say, I've yet to print directly out of InDesign. I'm printing a PDF out of Acrobat and it's working. I suspect now it would work just fine out of InDesign too because this morning even Acrobat was printing only just a yellow output.

                                                       

                                                      But I can't vouch at this point for color correctness. I'm just happy to have 4 colors. 

                                                       

                                                      Sorry if I put your migrained head to much trouble the other day. I feel duly ashamed of myself.

                                                       

                                                      How you turn off the printer's color management -  go to the printer properties menu. On the "Main" tab under "Color/Intensity" you click "Manual" then the "Set" button is clickable, click that, click "Matching" tab, then choose "None" in the "Color Correction" menu. And I have have this off today, when printing.

                                                      • 24. Re: Print output too large
                                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                        Trust me, downloading the wrong driver isn't that hard.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks for the update.