36 Replies Latest reply on Oct 30, 2011 9:28 PM by Rallymax-forum Branched from an earlier discussion.

    stabilizer performance

    Pharther Phurther Level 1

      I switched because of Adobes claim of using mutliprocessing on new Macs .. and posts that said FCP does not.

       

      Tonight I found out the main reason I bought a 12 Core Mac Pro and the Master Suite ( Stabilization ) ..  the effect / rendering only uses ONE Half of ONE core .. as seen in the Activity Monitor .. and it is impossible to use any of the other cores in a 12 core multiprocessor Mac Pro.

       

      Of course there is many other benefits of the 12 Cores .. but stabilization is not one of them.

       

      Unfortunately it is my Number One time consuming 'effect'.

       

       

       

      Think Positive.

       

      Right.

        • 1. Re: Very Slow Performance
          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

          What app?  What plug-in?  Since "Stabilization" isn't a native Pr effect, you must be using either a 3rd-party plug-in or After Effects.  You should address your concerns about stabilization performance in other forums.

           

          -Jeff

          • 2. Re: stabilizer performance
            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

            The Warp Stabilizer in After Effects is a very demanding feature on both CPU and RAM resources, and it takes a long time to process. For this reason, we split it off into a separate background process; it doesn't actually run in the context of the After Effects application, but instead runs separately and then communicates its results to the After Effects foreground application. This means---among other things---that the Warp Stabilizer process doesn't take advantage of the Render Multiple Frames Simultaneoulsy multiprocessing.

             

            You shouldn't generalize about the multiprocessing features of After Effects or the entire suite of applications because one feature doesn't use one of the multiprocessing features.

            • 3. Re: Very Slow Performance
              Pharther Phurther Level 1

              It was a big surprise to me that another program other than Premiere was needed to stabilize video.

               

              Stabilizing video seems to be a fundamental process for any video application.

               

              Pursuing the fastest and easy way to achieve stabilization is ( was ) my ultimate goal.

               

              I am forced to use Premiere .. and the Dynamic Link to AE .. to achieve results.

               

              It is a combination of these two apps that I have been having a terrible time with .. being a Mac User .. and post after post of searching for solutions since January.

               

              Now .. as you can plainly see Jeff .. these issues are now being address after several Mac Users have banded together in the Forum.

               

              I wonder how many other Mac User have yet to find the correct Forum posts to address there concerns?

               

              Surely there are more than those who we have read here.

               

              The previous post here .. in the Premiere Forum .. was just a comment / tip to another Mac User who was concerned about the performance of their system.

               

              It was after my post in the AE Forum .. which another Forum User disclosed that the "Warp Stabilizer" cannot use more than one Core.

               

              Did you know that Jeff? I didn't until now. It is a really important fact .. especially for performance related issues.

               

              I don't know if you are familiar with an app called the Activity Monitor .. but it unveils what is going on in the Mac System while running applications.

               

              The Activity Monitor provides full disclosure to the user. It also has many other features that I have yet to understand.

               

              The transparency of issues ... and the communication between users .. ( whom are very helpful for finding bugs ) ... and Adobe Programmers is extremely important.

               

              It is key that this relationship between all is maintained and strengthened for the betterment of both Adobe and the Mac Users.

               

              Since you are neither a Adobe Employee or a Mac User ... your comment that only seems to harass my post and dissipate the sharing of knowledge is not welcome here.

               

              You should address your reasons for patrolling these Forums.

               

              Live ... Love .. and Learn!

               

               

              • 4. Re: stabilizer performance
                Pharther Phurther Level 1

                Yes Todd .. I see that it is a separate process in the Activity Monitor.

                 

                ... and my professional experience is with every other stabilization app I could use on the Mac platform.

                 

                All of them are "very demanding feature on both CPU and RAM resources".

                 

                This 'feature' has not been properly prioritized.

                 

                Prior to the Adobe Master Suite ... all of my stabilizing was within the video editing application.

                 

                After hours of use .. I could only roll my eyes and realize that it will take forever to get what I need to get done .. unless I buy the fastest thing available.

                 

                Now I come to the conclusion that the lack of vision toward product development has come to a head with my experience.

                 

                I am a historian trying to find a way to process tons of vintage film footage that was hand held.

                 

                 

                 

                I have yet to utilize all the wonderful features that everyone speaks so highly of .. in both Premiere and After Effects .. since I have to repair the most basic fundamental issue first .. stabilization.

                 

                After that I can enjoy all the multiprocessing features of AE .. and the rest of the entire suite.

                • 5. Re: Very Slow Performance
                  Toomany3 Level 1
                  It was a big surprise to me that another program other than Premiere was needed to stabilize video.

                   

                  Stabilizing video seems to be a fundamental process for any video application.

                   

                  I totally agree.  I sent the same idea over to their feature requests page.  Warp Stablizer in AE is buggy for me.  I've only gotten it to work a few times, but it's a major pain if you're not ALREADY working with that clip in AE.  Dynamic Linking is nice, but it adds way too many steps.

                   

                  I use Mercali by ProDAD and I love it.  It doesn't have as many features as Warp Stablizer, but it does work most all the time.  AND it works from within Premiere which is the biggest deal to me.  I'm not sure if it uses all my cores (I'm on a Win7 PC), but it can usually process between 20 and 40 frames  a second.

                   

                  I know that FCP has had a stablizer for ever.  I agree that Premiere should to--and NOT one you have to link to AE.  What a pain.

                  • 6. Re: Very Slow Performance
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    Stabilizing video seems to be a fundamental process for any video application.

                     

                    I don't know.  I've used it maybe a handful of times over several hundred projects.  I can see why this is treated as an 'additional' feature handled by other programs or plug-ins.

                    • 7. Re: Very Slow Performance
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      Dynamic Linking is nice, but it adds way too many steps.

                       

                      I find that an odd statement, seeing as the whole purpose of the feature (largely achieved, in my view) is to reduce the number of steps when working between apps.

                      • 8. Re: Very Slow Performance
                        Toomany3 Level 1

                        JSS1138 wrote:

                         

                        Dynamic Linking is nice, but it adds way too many steps.

                         

                        I find that an odd statement, seeing as the whole purpose of the feature (largely achieved, in my view) is to reduce the number of steps when working between apps.

                        Here's the difference:

                         

                        MERCALI

                        1. Select clip
                        2. Add Mercali effect
                        3. Hit "Process"
                        4. Done.

                         

                        WARP STABLIZER

                        1. Select clip
                        2. Click to send to AE
                        3. Create new AE project
                        4. Ensure correct layer is turned on if using multicam
                        5. Add Warp effect
                        6. Change settings and hit process
                        7. Wait
                        8. Wait
                        9. If it hasn't crashed, save your project
                        10. Go back to Premiere.
                        11. Done

                         

                        The AE way takes AT LEAST 5 times as long for me.

                         

                        Sure DL saves steps between apps, but that's the point.  BETWEEN APPS.  Why isn't Warp Stablizer part of Premiere?  Why SHOULD it have to go to another app.  Mercali and other stablizers don't.

                         

                        It's certainly easier than having to export a clip to AE and then export it from AE to Premiere and reopen it, etc.  Yes, DL works for that--much better.  But my point is Premiere SHOULD have that stablizer built in.  I use a stablizer all the time.

                        • 9. Re: Very Slow Performance
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          Ah.

                           

                          Now it makes more sense.

                          • 10. Re: Very Slow Performance
                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                            I use a stablizer all the time.

                             

                            Man... you should try using a tripod sometime...

                             

                             

                             

                            Seriously, though... you know the drill. Telling us (mostly because we already agree with you) doesn't do any good. You know the hotline number: Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                            • 11. Re: Very Slow Performance
                              Toomany3 Level 1

                              Colin Brougham wrote:

                               

                              I use a stablizer all the time.

                               

                              Man... you should try using a tripod sometime...

                               


                              OH!!!  Now I know what they're for!   Duh me!

                               

                              Seriously, though... you know the drill. Telling us (mostly because we already agree with you) doesn't do any good. You know the hotline number: Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                              I've already sent this in about 20 times with 20 fake users account names.  Just kidding, Adobe guys!  Lighten up!  It was really 30 names.  If anyone else can fill this out too, you'll thank yourself later... hopefully not too much later.  I'm thinking like CS6-later.

                              • 12. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                I'd prefer Adobe work on other things (given that I actually do use a tripod ).

                                • 13. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                  Toomany3 Level 1

                                  I'd prefer Adobe work on other things (given that I actually do use a tripod ).

                                  You guys and all your fancy gear...

                                   

                                  I'd like multicam to be addressed FIRST on my list.  But hey, that's a diffent topic... again.

                                  • 14. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                    Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                    I can't give details of specific features that may or may not be in a future release of Premiere Pro, but I can say that we have heard you loud and clear on both multicam and stabilizer features and performance.

                                     

                                    You should still file the feature requests, though. It helps us know what the relative importance of things is for y'all.

                                    • 16. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                      Pharther Phurther Level 1

                                      Well I would need a time machine .. since the rare Super 8 & 8 mm footage I have was shot in 1959 and later.

                                       

                                      It is vintage auto racing .. and features racing greats .. such as Roger Penske and Mark Donahue .. amongst many others.

                                       

                                      I have sold about 2000 DVD .. which I produced using iMovie and the Gee Three Stabilizer plug -in .. which took forever.

                                       

                                      I saved the money and bought a 12 Core Mac Pro and Adobe Master Suite 5.5

                                       

                                      Regardless of my issues .. I like all the new features for the Adobe suite I can incorporate into my next series of DVDs.

                                       

                                      The problem is that these vintage clips need alot of attention to bring out the best in them.

                                       

                                      Too little or too much of stabilization makes a big difference. One must experiment by trial and error and that takes time.

                                       

                                      It is enough that I have to change preferences and settings over and over to find what works best.

                                       

                                      Each clip is unique .. and deserves special attention.

                                       

                                      Also: Clips must be separated ... since analyzing all at once doesn't work. Frames from previous clips throw the tracking off the latter clips.

                                       

                                      Any performance increase is important to me since it effects the project ten-fold ( since it takes me 10 times to get it right )

                                       

                                      I'm sure I will find more efficient ways to get it done .. but when the application is holding me back .. I get upset .. and thus my many posts in this Forum and others.

                                       

                                      Good Luck Y'all!

                                      • 17. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                        Keith Moreau Level 1

                                        I'm on a Mac and CS 5.5 / AE using Warp Stabilizer.

                                         

                                        First off, I have to say that for some things, Warp Stabilizer cannot be beat, especially to correct rolling shutter artifacts in modern CMOS sensor footage. However I don't think it's the easist to use stabilizer out there, and it is potentially slow and requires a lot of steps which has been expressed in the previous posts.

                                         

                                        There are other plugins, such as the ProDad, but I did a little research and it seems there is so little info or reviews out there, their website is obtuse, and I feel like there are equal number of negative reviews as positive reviews and I just don't feel that confident about support if there are issues. I also have Lock n Load, which is a great plugin for FCP and does work on AE, but is a bit crippled on AE and isn't native to Premiere Pro, so you'd have similar 'round trip' issues. Lock n Load on FCP is great and fast. I might recommend doing that part of your workflow in FCP or at least try it.

                                         

                                        One way to 'get around' the single threaded (one CPU at a time) Warp Stabilizer performance is to have many AE compositions that are processing Warp Stabilization at the same time. They'll use separate CPUs, as I recall. This will max out your 12 core mac but you'll get up to 12x the performance with 12 separate clips. Do it overnight, you'll have a bunch of stabilized clips in the morning.

                                         

                                        Hope this helps.

                                        • 18. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                          Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                          Hi Todd,

                                           

                                          Frankly, the fact that image stabilization was not in PP5.5 was a disappointment, it would be better that it is included as an effect in a newer version, I sent it back and got a refund. For the simple work I do the inclusion of the Image Stabilizer in Premiere Elements is all I need and it does a very good job, but, perhaps not as good as Sony Vegas. I find Premiere Pro more efficient to use than other software and will continue to use the stabilized clips from Adobe PE into Premiere . After Effects is not required for one effect .

                                          Ps. 2d3's SteadyMove in the old 1.5.1 is still quite remarkable.and pretty fast with an i7 64 bit Quad Core running a 32bit program even on coverted H.264mov 1920 x 1080p clips.

                                           

                                          The fact that the image stabilizer in After Effects is slow and cumbersome as reported (in this post) is a surprise, and the simplicity & performance of the Image Stabilizer in Adobe's Premiere Elements is even more amazing, and fixes the ZOOM of pixels. .And if you want to you can fix image movements in the one program.Also , If you are desperate the "rolling shutter issue" can be fixed in Vegas 11 at no extra cost, and transfer the files to Adobe Programs;I have been using two Canon 5D mark II's for 3 years and never this problem.

                                           

                                          I have been using Adobe Products nearly exclusively for over 6-7 years and never has this new Premiere Pro been such a disappointment.

                                          • 19. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Bob,

                                             

                                            I am sorry to hear that you ditched PrPro. I remember when you were strongly considering the switch.

                                             

                                            I have been very pleased with ProDAD's Mercalli, but then do not have anywhere the need for stabilization, that the OP does.

                                             

                                            Though I have PrE, I have never used its Image Stabilization, so cannot comment.

                                             

                                            At the end of the day, an NLE is but a tool, to be placed into the toolbox for the next use, but I cannot imagine giving up PrPro. Think of the "pry it out of my cold dead hands... " Still, it is what works for the users, and how well it works for that user, that counts. Maybe I need to look into the Stabilization Effect in PrE. Might be better, than I expected it to be. Thank you for that.

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                             

                                            BTW - moving on to a Barossa Valley Shiraz- inside joke .

                                            • 20. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              PP,

                                               

                                              I understand your problem. I tried to use the Way-Back Machine, and the capsule filled with smoke. I only needed to go back and change a camera angle for an archival shot of the San Francisco waterfront by a few degrees - maybe I broke it.

                                               

                                              Seriously though, above was a rec. for ProDAD's Mercalli. Have you looked into that?

                                               

                                              Though it is a commercial plug-in, it just might work for what you are doing.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                               

                                              PS - that footage sounds great. I'd love to be editing footage of Juan Manuel Fangio, or some of the racing greats. Good luck with that. Also, if you get some sporty-car footage, and see a BRG Jaguar with "66" on the door, that is probably me, especially if it finishes behind the 6-cyl Porches. I could never beat them, and on any track.

                                              • 21. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                You should address your reasons for patrolling these Forums.

                                                My primary function is as a moderator.  That means I'm at least partially responsible for keeping threads organized and free of malicious or commercial content.  The need for organization prompted my suggestion to take this topic to another forum.  Since you've already posted in the AE forum:

                                                It was after my post in the AE Forum .. which another Forum User disclosed that the "Warp Stabilizer" cannot use more than one Core.

                                                your post here is inappropriate and will only muddy the waters for future visitors.  However, since Todd is an employee and has way more insight into AE and its performance than I do, I'll defer to him on where this topic belongs and what direction it should take.

                                                 

                                                -Jeff

                                                • 22. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                  Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                  Well Bill,

                                                   

                                                  The South Australian wine is pretty good too,I did buy PP5.5  but found the lack of image stabilization in one program was an inconvenience,I even had trouble capturing video HDV 1440 x1080 anamorphic from the Canon although the H.264 mov clips from the Canon 5D Mark II's was not bad. The program was not lightening fast as expected , and when the old programs worked amazingly efficiently on the i7 64 bit12GB Ram and a Nvidia Video Card Quadro FX3800 designed for PP 5.5, I thought I am not going to put up with the inconvenience of no stabilizer  and other problems which were totally eliminated in Premiere Elements 4 and Premiere Pro 1.5.1 (With SteadyMove Image stabilization).

                                                  If ever, Adobe go back to equiping a simple efficient Image Stabilizer of the calibre in PE4 in PPro 5.5 then I will re-invest.I do not have any hassels with the old software, and the ouput is broadcast quality

                                                   

                                                  Cheers

                                                  • 23. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    Bob,

                                                     

                                                    I have no idea what "features" might be in the works for upcoming versions of PrPro, and those who know, cannot tell.

                                                     

                                                    Before you throw in the towel, I would experiment with the demo version of ProDAD's Mercalli.Many sign its praises.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck, and let us know if it works well for you.

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 24. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                      Pharther Phurther Level 1

                                                      The post here does not 'muddy the waters' .. it clarifies the situation.

                                                       

                                                      You "Branched" my post off of the titled Very Slow Performance" .. in which it is not connected to anymore thanks to your "moderation".

                                                       

                                                      This act .. in effect .. "muddys the water" .. since the user "Pololololol" posted questions regarding the "Very Slow Performance" found here:

                                                       

                                                      http://forums.adobe.com/message/3843239#3843239

                                                       

                                                      I was addressing the fact that by using the Mac OS X Activity Monitor .. one can visually see the different performance levels of the Adobe Master Suite ( All Programs .. including Premiere Pro , AE , Etc .. ) .. and in my case the most disappointing revelation was the "Very Slow Performance" of using half of one of my 12 Cores in stabilization.

                                                       


                                                      • 25. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                        > You "Branched" my post off of the titled Very Slow Performance" .. in which it is not connected to anymore thanks to your "moderation".

                                                         

                                                        Actually, I did that.

                                                         

                                                        You took a thread that was about Premiere Pro performance and introduced criticism of After Effects performance. I branched the thread because you started talking about something other than what the original thread was about.

                                                         

                                                        I also just deleted much of your most recent post on this thread because it was a personal attack on Jeff.

                                                         

                                                        See the terms of service of this site. Personal attacks will not be permitted. If you attack a person personally again, your account may be terminated.

                                                        • 26. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                          Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Will do, enjoy the cheap wine.....................Bob

                                                          • 27. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                            Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                             

                                                            Hi Bill,

                                                             

                                                            Have not thrown in the towel , doing lots of travel productions, blu-ray and

                                                            tape, also, with my young son at http://www.stevendix.com/2009/index.php/ who

                                                            is in Korea at the moment on Media business, still using Premiere Pro but,

                                                            not 5.5 and it has  working without a hitch for 5-6 years, with image

                                                            stabilizer, which I do not use much but, it is handy.

                                                            I'll have another glass, maybe Californian Zinfadel for a change.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Regards ..................

                                                             

                                                            • 28. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                              Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Bill,

                                                               

                                                              Had a look at Mercelli Image Stabilization, but, will use Adobe Premiere

                                                              Elements IS Effect (my wife loves it, so easy for her) and the SteadyMove Pro

                                                              in the old Adobe Pro 1.5.1 for the time being, still does the job, but, I did

                                                              not realise this was available................Thanks

                                                              • 29. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                                Pharther Phurther Level 1

                                                                Are you on a Mac Pro?

                                                                • 30. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                                  Keith Moreau Level 1

                                                                  I'm on a Mac Pro 2008 8 Core and I tried the Mercalli v2 with PPro 5.5. I like it, it's pretty basic, which is good in a way but also perhaps limiting in other ways. I think it's main advantage is it's pretty fast - it handled 1080P EX1 footage at 15fps, about 1/2 real time, and used all my cores. Probably on a hyperthreaded Mac it would be faster. It also works within PPro which is very nice. It's not cheap at $250 or so, maybe $199 on sale, but certainly the most convenient solution for Premiere Pro on Mac I've tried. You should download and test the trial and let us know how you like it.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                                    Pharther Phurther Level 1

                                                                    Thank you very much!

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    • 32. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                                      Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Yes, Keith,

                                                                       

                                                                      As Bill said it would be a less expensive solution as After effects in

                                                                      Australia would cost around $1,200 and at best you would only use the Image

                                                                      stabilizer ?

                                                                      • 33. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                                        Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                                        Hi Bill,

                                                                         

                                                                        Re: Mercalli IS, the download was faultless for both Adobe Premiere Elements

                                                                        4 and Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5.1, high definition clips and was simple and

                                                                        effective, wether it was as good as or better than the inbuilt stabilizers in

                                                                        both programs is debatable , but, you would accept the results in final output .

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Thanks,

                                                                         

                                                                        Bob

                                                                         

                                                                        Ps . Worth considering for 5.5 if it does the same thing at a fraction of the

                                                                        price of Adobe After Effects.

                                                                        • 34. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                                          Keith Moreau Level 1

                                                                          I have a feeling that the rolling shutter correction is much more advanced in After Effects than Mercalli, that's one of the reasons it takes so much time (as well as it's not multi-threaded). I think Mercalli's rolling shutter correction works in a very basic way, adjusting for simple 'skew', but I'm not sure how it does it for a variety of cameras, which exhibit this artifact to varying degrees. However I was impressed and my just wind up getting Mercalli. I have a support email to them, the speed and quality of their response might tell me if it's worth it.

                                                                          • 35. Re: stabilizer performance
                                                                            Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            Agree Keith,

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            Never had a problem with rolling shutter effects, even though we use 2 Canon

                                                                            5D Mark IIs, Mercalli is quite good , no need for After Effects

                                                                            • 36. Re: Very Slow Performance
                                                                              Rallymax-forum Level 3

                                                                              Fuzzy_Barsik wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              Where is Rallymax BTW ?..

                                                                               

                                                                              just saw this ( I wasn't on this thread).

                                                                              Oh I'm SOOOO close. I'm packaging it up right now and am pushing around the clock (while not at day job) to get it out before end of year.