27 Replies Latest reply on Aug 15, 2011 2:24 PM by Kevin-Monahan

    My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)

    John Hawkinson Level 5

      I just wrote up a very long post and I seem to have trouble posting it -- "Cannot post now" error, even though I can post in the testing forum. This is a short post to see if it works...

        • 1. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
          John Hawkinson Level 5

          Hi. I'm not really a video person (though sometimes i play one on  closed-circuit television). Spend most of my Adobe time in InDesign.

           

          Late  last week a friend had a quick amateur video project come up (<10  hour deadline) that I assisted with, and I decided that instead of using  Final Cut Pro, it would be a good time to give Premiere Pro (as part of  Master Collection) a try.

           

          I ran into a lot of problems  and figured it would be worthwhile listing them here. I'm sure some of  them are just me doing things wrong, and others are problems with the  product. It would be helpful to know which are which and whether it is  worth filing wishform bugs or feature requests on any of them. I guess  it would be good to know what's a known issue and what is not. Or if  they are more appropriate for other forums (like the community help  issue).

           

          The project was a 1-hour debate between some  middle-school students, shot 2-camera, with a JVC GY-HD100U as the  A-camera, and a Canon G12 (stills camera w/ low-end HD video capability)  as the B camera. I used Premiere Pro CS 5.5 (5.5.0 233) on a 2x2.66 GHZ  6-core Xeon MacPro with 6GB RAM (1 hard drive + ssd). Final output was a  DVD and a web movie. I had a small and manageable number of clips --  four from the JVC and 9 from the Canon.

           

          1. I started  out Capturing the shots from the JVC. I wasted quite a bit of time  trying to figure out how to get on-screen Preview to run during the  capture, before I found in the manual that it is not supported for HD on  the Mac. It would be nice if the text in the big blue Preview window  indicated clearly that it was unsupported, rather than implying that it  was possible to enable previewing.

           

          2. Capturing the  clips from my JVC seemed to fail to capture timecode for the clips. In  the Project panel, the Media Start shows up as 00:00:00:00 for all my  JVC clips.

           

          3. In the Community Help app, the location  of the < and  > arrow pairs moves from page to page. This makes it  really frustrating to advance multiple pages in a row.

           

          4.  There were a lot of times where Premiere Pro seemed to hang, especially  early on. Sometimes those hangs would be accompanied by a beachball,  sometimes they would not. Generally speaking there was no indication of  the reason for the hang, and certainly nothing in the lower-right corner  of the main window to tell me.

           

          5. When I tried to play back video, it ran very briefly (about 500ms) and then stopped. This was clearly broken.  Very poor new-user experience. I googled the problem and found the  suggestion that I should run Premiere Pro as an administrative user.  That should not be necessary. But I closed PP, logged out, logged in as  an adminsitrative user, opened my project, played a video, and closed  it, logged back in as myself, and video playing now worked. But this has  to be a bug! And a really annoying one for new users.Obviously once PP  has been set up and is functional, it doesn't happen anymore. But it  really sours the new user on Premiere Pro.

           

           

          (continued)

          • 2. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
            John Hawkinson Level 5

            6. When I opened my project as an administrative user  (step 5), PP stopped to conform the audio on some of my clips. I'm not  entirely sure why, nor am I sure that it was necessary. I think it was  maybe because the admin user did not have write access to the user's  directory containing the clips. It was hard to tell what was going on,  and took quite a while to notice the "Confirming audio" text in the  lower-right status bar of the main window. I have the impression that  the status text was not always there, either. But this was confusing. If  the operation was going to go on for several minutes (And it was), a  big dialog box in the middle of the window would be an appropriate way  to communicate. It would also be nice to know what it was writing to and  where and whether it was safe to abort it...

             

            7. Having  finally got my videos to play, then I wanted to sync up the clips  between my A and B cameras. Since the Canon doesn't do real timecode,  and anyhow it wasn't synced to the JVC at all, I knew the syncing  process was going to have to be by hand. I wanted to find a way to view  both the audio and video both in the source browser, so I could find the  [crude approximation of] slates. Could not find a way to do that. I  could see Video or Audio but not both. Did I miss something?

             

            8.  At first I figured that the right way to sync up my clips manually  would be to put a both clips in a common sequence, then put a clip  marker in each clip at the common points and then use, Clip > Synchronize... to match up the clips. Unfortunately, this did not work. Numbered Clip  Marker was greyed out., even though I had numbered clip markers. What's  up with that? (I've seen others report that problem.)

             

            9.  Double-clicking on the name of the clip in the Project Window lets you  rename it, but doesn't make it the active clip in the Timeline. This  is...a bit frustarting, because the icon is as a much much smaller piece  of screen real estate than the clip icon, and it's instinctive to click  on the clip name. Small inefficiencies... (I realize I can click on the  other fields, like Label and metadata. But that's...nonintuitive).

             

            (continued)

            • 3. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
              John Hawkinson Level 5

              10. Since I couldn't sychronize on numbered clips, and since the  clips start and end at different times, I figured figured the next plan would be to synchronize on timecode. When I tried to change the  timecode start offset for the Canon clips, PP would not let me! I  googled around a bit and it sounds like this might be a limitation of  the container format? Canon clips are .MOV files reported as Type: MPEG  Movie, 1280x720@23.976. I found some suggestions for people in this  situation to transcode the clips (to MXF? If only my Cannon G12 would  record XDCAM! Ha!). And while that seemed to work, it seems crazy.  Later, I realized that I could sync the clips visually in time timeline  by dragging the clips and they would snap to the clip markers that I had  placed (in step 8 above). Too bad this wasn't in the manual under  synchronizing clips.

              (continued)

              • 4. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                John Hawkinson Level 5

                11. Once I had my clips laid down and the video synced up, I started  to think about audio. I had 3 tracks of audio: a mono track from the  G12, and Channel 1 and Channel 2 from the JVC, both of which were  different mics. It turned out that we ended up using Channel 1 from the  JVC everywhere, but that was partly because it was easier to do and I  didn't know what I was doing. It appeared that there was no easy way to  tell Premiere to seperate out the Ch1/Ch2 audio in the sequence where  the clip was laid down, possibly because I had Captured clips with the  wrong audio setting (I didn't specify multichannel -- was it an option?)  Instead, I had to go the the Project Window, select the clip, and  choose Clip > Audio Options > Breakout to Mono. Then that  gave me a pair of independnt left/right clips with just a mono track,  and I could lay those down the timeline, and sync them up manually with  the existing video. This sync was easy since the left edges matched up  1:1, since of course the video and audio were recorded together by the  same camera. Then I had to unlink the original ("stereo") tracks and  delete them. Was there a better way?

                 

                12. The  aforementioned Breakout to Mono function is hard to find! If you select a  clip in the Project window, one of the choices in the context menu  (rightclick) is Modify > Audio Channels. It looks like it  might be the right thing but everything is grayed out and there's no way  to convert stereo to mono. It's particularly confusing that there is a  lot of overlap between that context menu and the menubar Clip menu, but not enough. It seems like there should either be complete  overlap or almost no overlap. But the degree of partial overlap makes it  hard to find things, and hard to remember which menu you found them in.

                 

                13.  Having established four sequences, each with two video tracks and 1  audio track, it was time to do the multi-camera editing. I found the  multi-camera documentation and the whole paradigm somewhat confusing.  That is, it seems weird that I have to lay down both of my clips into a  container sequence (as V1 and V2), and then place that container  sequence into an overarching parent sequence in order to do multicamera  editing. Am I missing something? Why the extra level of indirection? In  addition to being a bit nonintuitive, when I have my final sequence, it  means an extra level of double-clicking (except that doesn't always  work, so sometimes going back to the project window to find the  constituent sequence/clip).

                 

                14. In each of my  lowest-level sequences (that contained the clips directly), I had marked  In and Out points. I was surprised to find that that didn't seem to  affect their placement in the container sequence or the multicam clip  that contained that sequence. I figured I must have done something  obviously wrong, so just ended up trimming those sequences in their  parent sequences. This turned out to be error-prone (left some gaps),  but it got the job done.

                 

                15. The process of multi-cam  editing wasn't really smooth. The interface for recording multicam edits  didn't seem very amenable to adjustment, and it seemed like hitting '1'  or '2' on the keyboard obviated the need to press the Record button,  but not always. And restarting playing/recording sometimes meant that a  duplicate multi-cam edit was recorded, though sometimes multicam edits  were lost. It was confusing, but functional.

                 

                16.  Editing existing multicam edits in the timeline was awkard. I see now  that probably I should have used the ripple edit tool or rolling edit  tool to do those edits, instead of the default arrow tool. But messing  with those tools somehow we managed to get some video/audio  misalignments (or at least convinced ourselves that we did!) or loss of  sync, so we paniced and restrited ourselves to the regular pointer/arrow  tool.

                 

                17. The multicam documentation linked to  prp2it_multicam.pdf, but those instructions from 2006 are marked as for  Premiere Pro 2.0. I wasn't sure that they were safe to use in Premiere  Pro CS5.5...

                 

                18. In the multicam monitor window, there  was space for 4 cameras. But I only had two. No way to compress the  window to only show 2 cameras? That seemed a bit wasteful of screen real  estate.

                 

                19. Having done the rough multicamera edits  and then gone back and tweaked them, we were then concerned about audio.  Some of the clips had higher gain audio than others,so I wanted to do  gain corrections, generally to an entire clip. The first approach we  tried was opening an audio clip in the source browser and applying the  Volume Level effects control. But this would only give a 6dB boost. Why?

                 

                20. Next, we discovered that we could select a clip in the Project browser and choose Clip > Audio Options > Audio Gain.  Here it appeared that the clip gain could be arbitrarily changed. It  would be nice to have an interface to see all the places that a clip or a  sequence's audio gain could be adjusted, since having several places to  check was a bit confusing. Also, Audio Gain has both a "Set Gain" and  and "Adjust Gain" and their interaction was not 100% clear.

                 

                21. At this point, we were basically done. First shot at exporting to a DVD was via File > Export...Media MPEG2-DVD. it seemed to work OK, but then right as the progress bar was finishing, we got this gem:

                 

                 

                estimate2.png

                it lasted for more than a few seconds and was definitely not confidence-inspiring.

                 

                22.  At this point it was 3am in the morning and mistakes were starting to  be made. Consultation of the manual appeared to suggest that it was  feasible to export to a DVD without using Encore, especially if one  wanted to forgo menus. That sounded great to me, so I took the resulting  .mpg file and rightclicked in the finder and chose Burn to disc...  Well, that was a coaster. But I think the documentation could have been a  lot clearer. Still, lack of VIDEO_TS and whatnot should have clued me  in, right?

                 

                23. Managed to cons up a menu in Encore and  burned the .mpg file to disc, producing a playable DVD. I gave up trying  to figure out how to do it without a menu.

                 

                24. Having  produced the DVD deliverable, there was then a request for color  correction. Of course this is not surprising, why would a Canon G12  match a JVC HD100U? No way! Back in Premiere Pro, I foudn it very  difficult to figure out how to color-correct camera 1 of the multicamera  against camera 2. If I used the multicam stream, there were 100s of  broken-up clips every time there was an edit. I certainly didn't want to  color-correct every one of them. I really just wanted to apply a  correction to all of Camera 1 and another one to all of Camera 2.

                 

                25.  So I opened up the sequence containing both cameras (that is later  imported into a parent sequence and marked as multicamera). Could not  find a way to get the Reference: window to show one camera while the  color correction window showed another. Ultimately we ended up muting  video channels in the sequence temporarily such that the  sequence/program window showed one clip or the other clip, while the  source window showed another. But it seemed like it should have been  possible to display both clips against each other for purposes of color  correcting one or the other.

                 

                So, I think that's about  it. I suspect there's a lot I did wrong, and certainly if I had more  than a few hours I would have taken the time to learn the program  properly (and still will!). But there are still a lot of spots where the  program could be better.

                 

                Anyhow, thanks for listening. Cheers!

                • 5. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                  Oh, I guess once or twice I Quit and Restart when it  seemed to be misbehaving. At least I didn't have any serious crashes. My  memory says that PP didn't crash, but looking at the logs, ther was  indeed one. It looks like of like maybe it was an interminable hang and  we forced it to crash, because it looks like it is flaoting around in  CFRunLoopSpecific, which is so innocuous. On the other hand, maybe PP  uses more just the main thread for real and so that's not indicative?:

                   

                  Thread 0 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
                  0   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x00007fff87798d7a mach_msg_trap + 10
                  1   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x00007fff877993ed mach_msg + 59
                  2   com.apple.CoreFoundation           0x00007fff85155932 __CFRunLoopRun + 1698
                  3   com.apple.CoreFoundation           0x00007fff85154dbf CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 575
                  4   com.apple.HIToolbox                0x00007fff8818b7ee RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 333
                  5   com.apple.HIToolbox                0x00007fff8818b5f3 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 310
                  6   com.apple.HIToolbox                0x00007fff8818b4ac BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 59
                  7   com.apple.AppKit                   0x00007fff802ceeb2 _DPSNextEvent + 708
                  8   com.apple.AppKit                   0x00007fff802ce801 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 155
                  9   com.apple.AppKit                   0x00007fff8029468f -[NSApplication run] + 395
                  10  com.adobe.premiere.frontend        0x000000010c7bbaa4 FE::MacApplication::RunSelf(std::basic_string<unsigned short, std::char_traits<unsigned short>, dvacore::utility::SmallBlockAllocator::STLAllocator<unsigned short> > const&) + 164
                  11  com.adobe.premiere.frontend        0x000000010c7691a7 FE::Application::Run(std::basic_string<unsigned short, std::char_traits<unsigned short>, dvacore::utility::SmallBlockAllocator::STLAllocator<unsigned short> > const&) + 2503
                  12  com.adobe.premiere.frontend        0x000000010c7bec1d AppMain + 253
                  13  com.adobe.premiere.startup         0x000000010c93c3e8 (anonymous namespace)::LaunchFrontendFramework(ASL::ObjectPtr<ASL::Module, ASL::AtomicValue> const&, std::basic_string<unsigned short, std::char_traits<unsigned short>, dvacore::utility::SmallBlockAllocator::STLAllocator<unsigned short> > const&, int, void*) + 232
                  14  com.adobe.AdobePremierePro         0x0000000100003540 (anonymous namespace)::CallStartupFramework(int, char const* const*) + 288
                  15  com.adobe.AdobePremierePro         0x0000000100003ac7 main + 167
                  16  com.adobe.AdobePremierePro         0x00000001000033a8 start + 52
                  

                   

                  Also  at some point Adobe Media Encoder crashed. I remember thinking that it  was not a big deal and not too much of a problem, but it definitely  happened and contributed to the overall pessimistic feeling about the  project. Of course, by the time AME was involved, we were in the home  stretch. Crash was:

                   

                  Thread 0 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
                  0   ...e.SweetPeaSupport.framework     0x0000000103db1e20 SPFindSuite + 48
                  1   ...e.SweetPeaSupport.framework     0x0000000103db2230 SPReleaseSuite + 48
                  2   ...e.SweetPeaSupport.framework     0x0000000103d87e42 ML::SweetPeaSupport::MTBasicReleaseSuite(char const*, int) + 50
                  3   ...e.ExporterXDCAMHD.framework     0x0000000124418f2a ExporterXDCAMHD::ExporterXDCAMHD::OnShutdown(exportStdParms*) + 50
                  4   ...e.ExporterXDCAMHD.framework     0x0000000124424d59 PrExporterModule<ExporterXDCAMHD::ExporterXDCAMHD>::ExportEntry(int, exportStdParms*, void*, void*) + 87
                  5   ...e.ExporterXDCAMHD.framework     0x0000000124424b61 xSDKExport + 81
                  6   ...dobe.ExporterHost.framework     0x00000001046bbb93 ML::CallExporterModuleGuarded(int (*)(int, exportStdParms*, void*, void*), int, exportStdParms*, void*, void*, std::basic_string<unsigned short, std::char_traits<unsigned short>, dvacore::utility::SmallBlockAllocator::STLAllocator<unsigned short> > const&) + 131
                  7   ...dobe.ExporterHost.framework     0x00000001046bbd83 ML::ExporterPluginModule::CallExportModule(int, void*, void*) + 383
                  8   ...dobe.ExporterHost.framework     0x00000001046bc420 ML::ExporterPluginModule::~ExporterPluginModule() + 62
                  9   ...dobe.ExporterHost.framework     0x00000001046bca68 ML::ExporterPluginModule::Release() + 50
                  10  ...adobe.AMEFrontend.framework     0x00000001054cabe2 AME::Frontend::PresetChangeCmd::~PresetChangeCmd() + 152
                  11  ...adobe.AMEFrontend.framework     0x0000000105567864 AME::Frontend::CommandDeed::~CommandDeed() + 76
                  12  com.adobe.exo.framework            0x0000000103671742 exo::undo::MultiUndoer::~MultiUndoer() + 72
                  13  libSystem.B.dylib                  0x00007fff877ab374 __cxa_finalize + 203
                  14  libSystem.B.dylib                  0x00007fff877ab28c exit + 18
                  15  com.adobe.ame.application          0x000000010000f917 start + 59
                  

                   

                  I believe I have cores for these, if by any stretch of the imagination someone wants them.

                  • 6. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                    JCBendock

                    All I can say is if you are thinking of moving your craft in to Video post production, then get use to it. The problems you experienced in this project are all pretty nominal compared to what you will experience if you make this a career. Unfortunatly, hidding the most common features under the couch pillows is a way of life, and if you use those features you will get accustomed to looking for them there. Wait untill you have a client who is spendng 30K on post, sitting over your shoulder, and the computer decides its time to go to the beach. Just yesterday I hit render on a 1hr project and it said 150hrs to go. I tried to export it and it said 40hrs. There is not even any crossfades or effects, just footage with straight cuts on 1 video layer.

                     

                    And if all that seems excessive wait until you try to collaborate with others using a diffrent program like avid, nuke or davinci or start using professional formats like R3ds. But dont get me wrong you are right in your thinking. It should'nt be this clunky, unprofessional, but sadly it is. they all are. And while one might take a few minor steps forward in one arena "CS5.5" others start over from the begining "FCP-X".

                    • 7. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      I didn't know what I was doing.

                       

                      I'm sure the bulk of your difficulties were caused by the above admission.  New software, especially as complex as Premiere Pro, can be a challenge, especially to one not properly trained in video production.

                       

                      That's why there are post houses out there, so those who don't know what they're doing can have their projects completed without the hassle and frustration you experienced.  When non-professionals opt not to pay for a professional and do it themselves, that frustration will end up being the price you pay instead.

                      • 8. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                        Jim: There's a big difference between "this software is working as designed, but it is really complicated" and "There are defects or suboptimalities in the software, and experts in the software are familiar with hundreds of workarounds necessary to achieve basic functionality -- workarounds that are not documented in the manual."

                         

                        I have no problem with the former but plenty of problems with the latter.

                         

                        (And realistically, few people are going to go to a professional post house for some middle-school students sitting in a room. There are projects that want professional treatment and there are projects that do not.)

                         

                        I have no problem with hassle and frustration. Indeed, to a certain extent I thrive on them. But I do believe in doing my part to make them better and solve them for the next guy. That means filing bugs, documenting limitations, cajoling vendors into making improvements, and all of those kinds of things. That's why I took the time to write up my narrative and why I hope you guys will take the time to engage with me here and tell me which cases are actual real problems and which ones are misperceptions from the n00b.

                         

                        Of course, IMNSHO, it's important that the new user experience with Premiere Pro be a solid one. Especially given the current market dynamics. Adobe doesn't want to lose potential customers to Avid.

                         

                        Jeff: Definitely. I'm certainly not likely to take up pro video anytime soon (and not the editing side of the world), but yes, I realize a lot of these issues are endemic to the...industry (let's not pick which industry). But hopefully we can make some improvements and stay positive. In re your 150h/40h/1h: sure sounds like PP needs a bit better user visiblity into what is queued for rendering and export. Transparency of internals can often help lot in enhancing the user experience (especially when there's a scripting API, which I guess is somewhere that PP is not at the forefront...)

                        • 9. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          Fair enough.

                           

                          Issues 4, 5 and 6 are likely due to using a Mac.  The solution?  Use Windows 7 Pro 64 bit instead.

                           

                          For issues 2, 8 and 21, I don't have enough experience or info to answer for.

                           

                          Issues 3 and 17 don't really deal with the PP application itself.

                           

                          The remaining 17 issues are in some way related to not being a professional editor familiar with the software.

                           

                          And as a professional who earns part of my living on school projects like plays, sporting events, recitals, etc. I'd say this one definitely falls into the category of projects that can benefit from professional treatment.

                          • 10. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                            lasvideo Level 4

                            John, please take what Jim says about 4,5 and 6 with a BIG grain of salt. He suffers from a distorted perception of reality when it comes to computers other than PCs. I strongly suggest you get in touch with Adobe Tech Support on the phone (Google for it) and go through the troubleshooting process with unbiased folks who know what they are talking about. 

                            • 11. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              It's not a distorted reality.  It's just a personal bias.

                               

                              Having admitted that, my proposed solution of using Windows, however impractical it might turn out to be for this user, will in all likelihood actually solve those three problems.

                              • 12. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                jeff 64

                                RE: syncing 7&8

                                 

                                I have used PluralEyes software to sync clips with PP CS4 and Snow leopard. Incredibly simple. Amazing. I purchased it. Here is the link to the demo, that you can use to verify that it works with your system: http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html  Best of luck.

                                • 13. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                  jeff 64 Level 1

                                  RE: 23 encore dvd with no menu

                                   

                                   

                                  With CS4 the trick was to import your video & audio into encore as an asset and drop them into a timeline or just import them as a timeline.

                                  You do not need to create a menu. Then make sure you link the timeline back to itself by clicking on the spiral next to End Action under the properties tab on the right hand side of the screen. Then click build. You will receive a error message. Click ignore and continue. It will burn a dvd that plays with no menu and loops. I have not had a chance to try it with 5.5 yet, but its worth a try. There used to be a great feature in CS3 that was a "1 click burn to dvd with no menu" right out of premeire pro but adobe killed it. I have no idea why.

                                  • 14. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                                    Well, this wasn't quite the response I was hoping for, but I suppose that's what I get for posting 25 questions in one post. (Next time: let's post twenty-five individual seperate questions in seperate threads spread out over the course of a month! -- just kidding).

                                     

                                    Anyhow can anyone tell me which of my issues are known bugs that are therefore not worth reporting. That would be helpful information.

                                    In particular, I'm wondering about:

                                     

                                      2. No timecode for JVC GY-HD100U capture

                                      4. Hangs without dialog boxes

                                      5. Stuttering playback until run as Administrator

                                      8. Clip > Synchronize does not permit numbered clip sync

                                    10. Some MPEGs cannot have their timecode offset changed.

                                    21. Encoding estimates 2 billion hours remaining

                                     

                                    Thanks!

                                    • 15. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                      Jon Chappell Level 3

                                      Just report all of them. It helps Adobe realize how common a particular issue is and prioritize accordingly.

                                      • 16. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                                        Yes, well, I have limited time and resources.

                                         

                                        A bug report necessary to demonstrate a problem sufficiently such that

                                        an engineer can reproduce it and stand a chance of fixing it is a

                                        rather higher burden than a bug report that cites an existing known

                                        defect.  Not to mention getting past the folks who triage bug reports.

                                         

                                        I don't have much interest in reporting bugs that are already

                                        well-understood.  Especially if they're fixed in the development

                                        sources ("fixed in the next release"); though it would be great to know!

                                         

                                        I suppose I could file half-assed bug reports just snipping the

                                        paragraphs from the above posts. I'm not sure if that does much good?

                                        After all, as I understand it, those entries at the wishform get read

                                        by Todd anyhow [hmm...or is that only After Effects?], and I'm sure

                                        he's reading this thread, too (and presumbly so is his Premiere Pro

                                        counterpart).

                                         

                                        (For other many other Adobe Products, I've been advised that it's useful

                                        to file support cases with Adobe Support in order to get bugs formally

                                        logged. But Todd has said that's not the case for the DVA products.

                                        Of couse, I'm not sure what to do if the bug report requires attaching

                                        files since you can't do that in the wishform -- file both I suppose.)

                                        • 17. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7
                                          Yes, well, I have limited time and resources.

                                           

                                          Haven't we all?

                                           

                                          Have you heard of copy/paste?

                                           

                                          The only way to submit a good bug report is by giving all the details, so it can be replicated. If it can't be replicated, chances are it is not accepted as a bug report but as OE (Operator Error). Your choice.

                                          • 18. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            How do you think users are aware of bug reports filed? Only Adobe can answer that.

                                             

                                            Do you happen to know what feature requests/bug reports I filed?

                                             

                                            There  is no way for us users to know that. The only way to make your problems  known to Adobe is to file them and the only way to take you seriously  is by making well documented reports that can be replicated.

                                             

                                            Just some simple advise on how things work.

                                            • 19. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                              > (Next time: let's post twenty-five individual seperate questions in seperate threads spread out over the course of a month! -- just kidding).

                                               

                                               

                                              Actually, that is the best thing to do.

                                               

                                              It's much easier to have a productive conversation when 1) the subject line of the thread tells folks the one thing that the thread is about and 2) the thread is focused so that it's clear what the answers apply to.

                                               

                                              > A bug report necessary to demonstrate a problem sufficiently such that

                                              an engineer can reproduce it and stand a chance of fixing it is a

                                              rather higher burden than a bug report that cites an existing known

                                              defect.

                                               

                                               

                                              If we see a lone report on an issue, then we treat it very differently from an issue for which we've seen 20 reports. Frequency is correlated with priority, since we want to serve the greatest number of people with our fixes.

                                               

                                               

                                              After all, as I understand it, those entries at the wishform get read

                                              by Todd anyhow [hmm...or is that only After Effects?], and I'm sure

                                              he's reading this thread, too (and presumbly so is his Premiere Pro

                                              counterpart).

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              It is a very bad (wrong) assumption that Adobe staff read these threads. This is a user-to-user forum. Some Adobe staff spend some of our spare time here because we like to help, but this is absolutely not an official or reliable way of communicating with Adobe personnel.

                                               

                                              BTW, I am just the person who reads all of the bug reports for After Effects. My Premiere Pro counterpart doesn't spend much time at all on the forums.

                                               

                                              (For other many other Adobe Products, I've been advised that it's useful

                                              to file support cases with Adobe Support in order to get bugs formally

                                              logged. But Todd has said that's not the case for the DVA products.

                                              Of couse, I'm not sure what to do if the bug report requires attaching

                                              files since you can't do that in the wishform -- file both I suppose.)

                                               

                                               

                                              No, don't do both. FIling bugs through Adobe Support is not the right thing to do.

                                               

                                              If we need a file from you, we respond to the bug report and give you an email address to send it to.

                                              • 20. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                Thanks, Todd, that's helpful.

                                                 

                                                (I realize that individual threads might work better, but practically speaking, I think it might piss a lot of people off. Ah well....)

                                                 

                                                I guess the takeaway here is that I can't expect any degree of "this is a known bug" -type feedback from the PP forum community, so I'm stuck filing bugs on my own in a vacuum. That's too bad, but I guess it is reality.

                                                No, don't do both. FIling bugs through Adobe Support is not the right thing to do.

                                                So, the one problem I have with this is the lack of anything to track. If I file it with the wishform, I get nothing back. All I can say is, "I filed a bug through the wishform at such-and-such- a date/time."

                                                 

                                                But if I open a case through Adobe Support, at least for some products, I get back a message like this:

                                                thanks for letting us know about this. I've logged this as a bug and for your
                                                reference, the number is #2934380. Let me know if there's anything else you
                                                need on the topic.

                                                To me that's incredibly valuable. Then I can go back to Adobe Support later and say, "What's the status of #2934380? Has it been fixed? Is it still broken?."

                                                 

                                                 

                                                I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I guess you're saying that wouldn't actually happen with Adobe Support for Premiere Pro, or maybe that I shouldn't do it because it would place an undue burden on the support structure and would not work if everyone did it?

                                                 

                                                I feel like the slow kid here.

                                                 

                                                (Of course, it's not all ponies and kittens. The last time I asked for a status on a bug I'd filed against InDesign, it produced a response of "Regarding the bug # 2902023, the engineering needs few details:" which kind of made me wonder if I'd ever have been asked those questions if I hadn't followed up. So I don't mean to imply the system works perfectly).

                                                • 21. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                  >  Then I can go back to Adobe Support later and say, "What's the status of #2934380? Has it been fixed? Is it still broken?."

                                                   

                                                  I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I guess you're saying that wouldn't actually happen with Adobe Support for Premiere Pro, or maybe that I shouldn't do it because it would place an undue burden on the support structure and would not work if everyone did it?

                                                   

                                                  Perhaps things are different for InDesign, but I predict with a high probability that you would not get useful information going either direction in such an interaction with Premiere Pro technical support.

                                                   

                                                  Filing a bug through the form goes straight to the Premiere Pro team. The person reading that bug report sits only a few meters away from the folks who make the final call about what goes into each version of the software, and he's in meetings multiple times a week with those folks (along with me).

                                                   

                                                  "Filing a bug" through a technical support case goes through some indeterminate chain of communication that may or may not end up in the right place. If you're lucky, it ends up at me, and I forward it to the person mentioned in the above paragraph. So the best-case scenario is the same result as above, but with a time delay. The worst-case scenario is that no one on the Premiere Pro team ever sees your report.

                                                  • 22. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                    wonderspark Level 1

                                                    From one Mac user to another, welcome.

                                                     

                                                    I am almost certain that #s 4, 5 and 6 are related to your system setup. I'm on a 2009 Mac Pro 3.33GHz quad with 16GB of RAM and an extensive disk setup, including a nice RAID. RAM is very cheap these days, and the best first thing you can do is buy at least 16GB of RAM for as little as $179 at OWC. (Link) http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory#1333-memory

                                                     

                                                    6GB really isn't enough. Next, I think you're not doing yourself any favors using only two disks, even if one is an SSD. All your data is competing for reads and writes if you have the OS/Adobe on one disk and all media on the SSD. You could get much better performance for cheap by just filling the three empty drive slots and building a software RAID0. If you mentioned how you back up your data, I missed it, but you should also have a good backup.

                                                     

                                                    Conforming is one of those things that happens automatically when media is imported for the first time, and I usually just wait it out. No problems yet with that approach. In preferences and settings, I set my cache to write to a fast internal RAID0 volume that performs at 315MB/sec, and my media files, encodes, renders and previews all reside on a nice external RAID that performs at 550+MB/sec. Of the 16GB of RAM in my system, I allocate 13GB to Premiere, leaving 3GB aside for the system. (Also in preference settings.)

                                                     

                                                    I did a lot of homework to set up my Mac, and I specifically built it as a video edit system. I'm already feeling that I need to chuck my 4x4GB RAM sticks and pony up for 4x8GB (32GB) of RAM, because Adobe programs seem to take as much as you give them, and work faster/better with more since CS5. CS3, I did fine with 16GB, and I'm still doing ok with it, but test show more is better.

                                                     

                                                    Seriously, using that 6GB that Apple shipped with is hurting you, so just adding more paired with filling up the drive slots will make Premiere a vastly better experience. A lot of the other things will come with time and experience with the product, but every system has a quirk or two. I know FCP had its share.

                                                    • 23. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                      John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                      Thanks for the reply, wonderspark.

                                                       

                                                      I feel like I must not have described #5 (Stuttering playback until run as Administrator ) clearly. It's not like Premiere is slow, running low on resources, fighting to get the cycles it needs, or anything like that. You hit Play, it started to play a clip for half a second, and then it Just Stops! Furthermore, you run it as an administrative user once, and the problem goes away. So it's clearly not a resource issue, it's something goofy and screwy. And really it only matters for the new user experience, since presumably it's not going to recur. [Though I suppose it might happen once per project? I sure hope not.]

                                                       

                                                      Similarly, the audio conforming only seemed to happen when a differerent (administrative) user opened an existing project it could not write to. I didn't test extensively, so maybe it was going to happen anyhow, but really it was a UI complaint. Operations that lock up the UI for long seconds or minutes deserve something more prominent than a lower-right corner status line update. They deserve a big prominent modal dialog box with a progress bar and a time estimate, just like exporting.

                                                       

                                                      I certainly agree, if this machine was built for video editing, it'd be built differently...it's not though. Really just a one-off project. But performancewise, once over the initial hurdle, the program was fine, so I think the hardware was adequate to the (not very intensive) task at hand. Still, it is probably time for a memory upgrade, true enough.

                                                      • 24. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                        wonderspark Level 1

                                                        No, I get it, and you're right. The conforming was something I didn't notice at first, either. I've started working while it was going with no problems, but I have a habit of letting things settle before moving forward. This actually comes from my PC days, when my wife would click-click-click while things were still happening from six processes back, and complain when the laptop would lock up or crash. I'd be saying, "Let that stuff finish working... it's not a circus clown!" I think it's because technically, it can work in the background on more powerful machines, which is probably the bigger user base, while bare minimum machines might struggle with it. I think I've seen the process slow or stop if I start doing something else before, so I'm not sure on all that.

                                                         

                                                        I've had the issue you mentioned with admin rights and audio starting and stopping immediately, but I think that was on my PC when I employed two user accounts myself. I think if enough people complain about it, it will be fixed, but I know a whole lot of Mac users (most by far, I'd guess) that only use the default admin account.

                                                         

                                                        Anyway, I hope you stick with it. I think it's a delight to work with, and I hear fewer scoffs and criticisms these days when people ask me what I cut that latest piece on. It used to be, "PREMIERE? You didn't use Final Cut? Oh, jeez," and I'd see the eyes rolling back, and you could feel their brain thinking, "This guy's not a professional." Now, I usually hear, "Wow. That's cool. I never would have known," as if Final Cut, Avid and all the others somehow burn a subliminal watermark on the video that says, "Professional."

                                                        • 25. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                          lasvideo Level 4

                                                          You use Premiere? You dont use FCP X? Jeez, you're a very smart person.

                                                          • 26. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                            ExactImage Level 3

                                                            John,

                                                             

                                                            I understand your pain.  hen I came from FCP PP seemed really buggy, really unusable for major projects etc, but once I actually learned how to use it, instead of randomly clicking things have settled down quite a lot.  The only real part that bugs me now is the conforming.

                                                             

                                                            To turn things on their head here - I'm just trying to get my head around InDesign and it's buggy and crashy (new word!) as hell.  However, I know as I learn to click the right things at the right time (i.e. learn the program) things will settle down here too.  I certainly wouldn't have picked up InDesign when in a hurry to learn it on a project that I needed in a hurry, I'd have done it in Photoshop instead.

                                                             

                                                            Being in a hurry to use something so comprehensive as PP is never a good idea.   Many of the thing you bumped in to may be down to 'how' things were done.

                                                             

                                                            I agree with the idea that you need more RAM.  When we were running on 4GB of RAM in the iMac things were pretty unusable.  Taking it to 12GB on the iMac and 16GB on the Mac Pro made things run a lot smoother.

                                                             

                                                            We also see the palyback start, then stop after a few milliseconds (using the space bar for start / stop), so you hit play again (space) and it does it all over again and you get in a vicious circle, not knowing if you are making it start or stop.  Eventually we let it settle for a few seconds then click the play icon and things play fine.

                                                             

                                                            BTW - I've also had FCP tell me it was going to be > thousand years for rendering - something I took as a suggestion for a hardware upgrade

                                                            • 27. Re: My new user experience with PP5.5 (not so great)
                                                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                              Regarding stuttering playback until run as an Administrator. Yes, this is a bug that we know about and are working on. It is only a problem on Macs.

                                                              Regarding not being able to synchronize clips with numbered markers and the Clip>Synchronize command, this is working fine for me.

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