9 Replies Latest reply on Aug 9, 2011 4:39 PM by the_wine_snob

    CPU cores and memory for PrE 9

    RMO2011

      Vista Home Premium SP2, Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz, 4GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GT 430
      Camera: Nikon D5100, delivering .mov-files, 1080p, 720p, using codec H264 -MPEG-4AVC
      --------------------------------
      PrE 9
      --------------------------------
      Hi,
      I am new to this forum.
      I am new to PrE 9 too, but have been working with PrE 3.02 which has served me very well.

       

      I have been testing PrE 9 for some weeks now, making friends with it - and like it.
      When I carefully chose the presets for each video, no problems seem to occur.
      As I am a bit short of CPU-power for HD-rendering, I have chosen rendering to .AVI and editing as Type 2 DV - works ok.

       

      Some minor irritating issues depending on differences between PrE 3.02 and PrE 9 are still a bit confusing to me, such as finding the button with wich to go to the beginning of the timeline - it's not here - and I haven't succeeded in finding it so far - I can jump to next/previous clip but not to the beginning. This just proves that I am new to PrE 9 I suppose. I will find it!

       

      During rendering 1080p or 720p .MOV-files I can see that all 4 cores are working 97-100%, but surprisingly it's not very tough in terms of memory usage.

       

      This brings me to my question:

       

      Planning the configuration af my next W7/64 computer I'm wondering: Does PrE 9 benefit from more cores (than 4)? Is it worth the investment?
      SandyBridge: How important is the amount of memory on the graphics card when using a SandyBridge CPU?
      Core i5 versus i7 - does i7 represent advantages in terms of HD-videorendering with PrE 9?
      As PrE 9 does not support CUDA it seems to me that choise of raw processor-speed is important - more than exessive amounts of RAMs - but all of these memory handling "parameters" are difficult to overview - at least to me.

       

      Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          At this point, Premiere Elements is a 32-bit program, so it's not likely to take full advantage of 64-bit architecture on that new machine. It also won't likely use more than 3 or 4 gigs of RAM, no matter how big your RAM load.

           

          But much of Premiere Elements' performance has to do with how well matched your project settings are to your source footage. You don't say which project settings you're using but, if you're settings are perfectly matched, there will be no red lines on the timeline above your video clips until you add effects to them. I assume that's the case in your situation.

           

          As for navigating the timeline, as I show you in my book, there are a number of helpful keyboard shortcuts built into the program. HOME jumps you to the beginning of the timeline and END jumps you to the end, for instance. The backslash key (above Enter) snaps your timeline view to display your entire project timeline.

           

          It's a good book (if I do say so). You should check it out.

          http://Muvipix.com/pe9.php

          • 2. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
            RMO2011 Level 1

            Thank you for your fast reply!

             

            And for pointing out that PrE 9 is a 32-bits application. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe PrE 10 (?)

             

            I have no red lines, so I seem to have the right presets - no problem. But thanks for mentioning it.

             

            And thanks for solving my timeline-micro-problem - as usual it was a simple matter - when you know the answer

             

            You did not mention anything on the core number matter, Core 5 & 7, and the advanced memoryhandling.

            I guess you would say that PrE9 should run on a rather simple computer as long as the presets are harmonizing with the input, but my question is more of a future handling nature - I am trying to construct a setup that will serve me for as long as possible - but of course the main problem persists: we don't know what future PrEs are offering us, and unfortunately very little of what W8 is introducing too. So it is difficult to answer, I understand that.

             

            I guess I will have to wait some months - and in the meantime perhaps go hunting a semi-antique quad core CPU of > 3 GHz at some nice price somewhere.

             

            Best regards.

            • 3. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Welcome to the forum.

               

              One consideration with a 64-bit OS and, say 12GB of RAM, is that while PrE is limited in its usage of RAM, because of its 32-bit nature, the OS can use more than in a 32-bit OS, plus can allocate the full compliment to each 32-bit program running. In very general terms, the 64-bit OS needs about 4GB, just to run itself, leaving very little for the programs. So, while PrE cannot use more than about 3.5GB itself, if the OS needs 4, you can see that you'd be up to 7.5GB right there. If you also run Photoshop Elements, it can use another 3.5GB, so you are looking at having 12GB of RAM, and much of that could be used, depending on what you are doing.

               

              As for cores, any H.264 footage (includes AVCHD and others) will be very CPU intensive to process and edit, and more Cores and CPU speed, will benefit you. Here, an i7 would greatly outperform an i5.

               

              Because, as you mention, PrE 9 does not utilize CUDA, the graphics adapter is not as important, as with PrPro. The biggest concern is that it has good driver support. That is where the nVidia and ATI get such high marks - great driver support. At this moment, there is little use for GPU acceleration, beyond a very few Effects and Transitions. A current video card, with updated drivers is all that one needs, and really can use at this time. This does not mean that an nVidia Quadro 5000 would not be a good card - it would, but would be overkill for PrE, at least through PrE 9. That money could be better spent on CPU, RAM and a 3x HDD I/O.

               

              As for the HDD's, were I building/buying right now, with PrE the target program, I would go with a fast C:\ (size is not that big a deal, and 350 to 650GB should be adequate. Then, I would add two large D:\ & E:\ drives.or at least 7200 RPM. SSD's are still not a good buy, and one large enough to work as C:\ will still be expensive. I think that $ could go into, say a 10K 650GB C:\, and 2 7200 RPM 1TB SATA III's. Do not know what the next gen. of SSD's will bring, but they do not offer quite the bang for the buck, yet. Right now, I would also look into eSATA externals, with the proper connection/controller, for supplemental storage. USB 3 is showing promise, but the peripherals have not caught up - yet. I would only think of USB 2.0's for archival storage, and not try to edit to/from those, though others do not seem to have an issue.

               

              Just my thoughts on the computer, and good luck.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
                RMO2011 Level 1

                Hi Hunt!

                 

                Thanks a lot for your thoughts!

                 

                12 GB of RAM was what I had calculated - maybe more, if they get used. I dont't know if there is a "roof" like in 32-bits OS's use of RAM, just higher.

                I have read somewhere that there is some practical limit - but don't know where it is. It was somewhat unclear as fara as I remember.

                But with today's RAM-prices this is not an economical issue at least.

                 

                I thank you for solving the question on i7 - which I will chose.

                 

                6 cores are not very cheap, but I will seriously think about that too.

                 

                Graphic-wise I think I will stick to Nvidia GT 4xx - I am not into gaming. Do you consider that sufficient?

                 

                And your thoughts on the 3 HDDs is very much what I had in mind - not SSD (yet) - but e-sata externals are very interesting, absolutely.

                USB3 is - as far as I can see - standard on almost any motherboard now - but with backwards compatibility, that is no problem, I think.

                I won't use it for video production anyway, just storage.

                 

                I will put PrE on the system disk (C:) - I prefer WD Black Caviars - they sound a little but are stable and should be fast enough - or would you chose some Raptor-thing for C:? (They do come at a price too )

                I will put sourcefiles on next HDD

                I will put output-files on the next-next HDD

                 

                Is this right thinking? Please correct me if not.

                 

                I plan to build this myself - so if you have any additional thoughts, please let me know.

                 

                But I will still wait some month for PrE 10 - to see  if I should change anything - one never knows

                 

                Thanks again for your time!

                • 5. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  12 GB of RAM was what I had calculated - maybe more, if they get used. I dont't know if there is a "roof" like in 32-bits OS's use of RAM, just higher.

                  I have read somewhere that there is some practical limit - but don't know where it is. It was somewhat unclear as fara as I remember.

                  But with today's RAM-prices this is not an economical issue at least.

                   

                  The 32-bit programs do have a limit, but then the OS knows this, and will use any extra RAM for itself, or spread over other programs, whether they are 32-bit, or 64-bit.

                   

                  There is probably a limit up there somewhere, but many higher-end NLE (Non Linear Editor) workstations hold up to 32GB RAM, so you will not be pushing any limits with 12GB.

                   

                  For the HDD's, I also like the Caviar Blacks, and also the Samsung (just acquired by Seagate, IIRC, but probably still listed as Samsung) SpinPoints.

                   

                  As for the nVidia, that should be perfectly fine. It's full capability will not be tapped by PrE, but nVidia is great with driver support, as is ATI/AMD, and for PrE, that is the most important aspect.

                   

                  Only possible consideration would be on whether PrE gets CUDA/MPE. I know of no one, who has even hinted at that for any upcoming versions. Of course, anyone, who knows, has signed an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement), so cannot tell. Were I building for PrE, I might spec. out an nVidia, that did offer CUDA, just in case Adobe ups the ante with a new PrE. The few extra $'s may pay off, or may not. Also, IF PrE does go with CUDA/MPE it might not come, until nVidia has released a bunch of new, cheaper cards???? If only we had a fully-functioning crystal ball, eh?

                   

                  One last thing that I forgot to mention - make sure that your PSU is adequately sized. With say an nVidia 4xx card, 3x internal HDD's, say maybe a DVD burner, and a BD burner, the load on the PSU will be significant, so one must take its capacity into consideration.

                   

                  Case cooling is the last aspect. I like a full-tower, just to give me plenty of room around each component for good air circulation, ease of service, and the capability to add fans everywhere. That does increase the noise level a bit, but cooling for a video editing rig is very important. If goine with a mid-tower case, I would go with the "coolest" (thermally ) case design possible, and fill every port with a high-capacity fan. Those should be calculated into the PSU sizing equation too. Cooler is always better. I keep trying to find a way to feed the chilled air from my wine celler into my workstation...

                   

                  OK, last consideration - if you use Photoshop, then good OpenGL support in your video card is important. The nVidia 4xx should do just fine.

                   

                  Good luck, and enjoy the new computer.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
                    RMO2011 Level 1

                    Thanks again for your advice.

                     

                    When I wrote "one never knows", I meant CUDA (and 64-bits application).

                     

                    My present GT 430 card has CUDA with computing capacity 1.0

                    So it's not very sophisticated, I presume.

                    But not expensive either.

                     

                    I have just read about CUDA and learned that computing capacity 2.0 is far superior - 64-bits adressing for instance - very interesting!

                    So, I suppose you mean 2.0 when you are "wishing for" CUDA in PrE 10. (And me too ).

                    But does the 64-bits adressing in CUDA mean 64-bits application?

                     

                    To get CUDA today one has to go to the GTX xxx cards - haven't checked the prices, but it's not too hard guessing that they are more expensive.

                    But I have read somwhere else that Nvidia would be developing cheaper cards with CUDA (2.0?), supposedly synchronous with Adobe's developing of video rendering software. Presumably hearsay only. But you had similar thoughts.

                     

                    So I'm looking forward to September - quite exiting. Maybe. CUDA lite?

                    The market is there - what do they come up with next?

                     

                    Thanks for your advice on cooling - I hadn't thought that much of cooling, but of course you are right. It may generate quite some noise - so Black Caviars small sounds will drown in the total symphony. I'll have to check this out: silent fans - Thermaltake maybe. Do you have any recommandation?

                     

                    Full Tower is a rational solution - may even offer some space for noise insulation.

                     

                    PSU: I had an idea of 700 Wats - but I will calculate this more exactly as soon as I have decided the graphics card's model (CUDA 1 or 2 or something) and the number and model of cooling fans. As big fans are the most silent, Full Tower is the case to go for, I think.

                     

                    I Like your idea of wine cooled airflow - but I have never succeded in creating a wine cellar - for natural reasons: The wine vanishes before the celler leaves the drawing pad

                     

                    Thanks again for all your ideas and suggestions.

                    • 7. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      For more discussion on MPE (Mercury Playback Engine) and CUDA support, see this ARTICLE.

                       

                      There are more nVidia cards that do work with CUDA and MPE, than on the certified list. Those are just the ones that Adobe has tested with and certified. Many PrPro CS 5 and 5.5 users just do an edit to one TXT file, to get their nVidia cards to function perfectly. Also, remember that none of us knows what PrE 10 will, or will not entail. It might be 64-bit, or might not. As many of the PrE install-base is still on 32-bit OS's, that would be a major jump and would leave many out in the cold - they would have to upgrade their OS's, and probably some hardware too. We just have to wait and see. As MPE & CUDA are 64-bit, and are also implemented in a program, that costs 6x what PrE does, they may never find their way into PrE. Again, none of us knows.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
                        RMO2011 Level 1

                        I am afraid I see your point.

                        Thanks for this information.

                        My thought was that PrE could be sold as both 32 and 64 bits - not to leave anyone in the cold, as you say.

                        I guess the logic move for me would be to go to PrPro - to get happy - but money talks.

                        One version would be economically ok but it will have to be upgraded every  year too, so I'll stick with PrE.

                        I think that I have recieved the information I need for now - I thank you very much for your time and your thoughts.

                        I star this question as answered - but I might be back some day !

                        Thank You!

                        • 9. Re: CPU cores and memory for PrE 9
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Do not hesitate to stop back by.

                           

                          Good luck, and I do understand about the price of PrPro - it is just not cheap, but is a very sweet program.

                           

                          Hunt