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1. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 10, 2011 9:05 PM (in response to digiday)Remember, Pr Rotates on the rectangular Frame, and not by an object in that Frame.
Good luck,
Hunt
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2. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 10, 2011 9:16 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi again Bill,
So do you mean if my imported PSD layer is square, fitting the proportions of my circular object that I am rotating, then it will hold on to its circular shape when rotated, as opposed to making my PSD size rectangular to fit the movie format?
I think I get it if that's what the case is... I'll give that a try.
In the meantime, I figured out two different work arounds, one with stop frame animation for the circular rotation... and using an XML code special effect plug-in in Windows Movie Maker 6 to produce the perfect spin, then export that to WMV, then convert that to AVI to import back in to Premiere.
That's actually a short route compared to much of what I've been doing.
Thanks, I'll try that.
digi
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3. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 20, 2011 12:33 PM (in response to digiday)Hi again Bill,
I followed the direction that I thought you were suggesting in your last post on this thread, but I'm still having the same problem.
First of all, I am now importing this round object in a square PSD file layer and setting it to "Maintain Aspect Ratio" under "Clip>Video Options".
When this perfectly round object in a perfectly, numerically square PSD file is set to sit still or to move laterally or vertically, it stays round, but when I put a rotate motion on it in the Motion Settings dialog box, I end up with an oblong, horizontally elliptical spinning image in my rendered video.
Is there a way to fix this besides trying (virtually impossible) to compensate for the distortion with the "Distortion" control in the Motion Settings dialog box?
I thought if my imported PSD layer is square, fitting the proportions of my circular object that I am rotating, then it would hold on to its circular shape when rotated, as opposed to making my PSD size rectangular to fit the movie format... but I tried importing a perfectly and numerically square PSD that perfectly fits the proportions of my perfectly and numerically round object and I still get an oblong, warped rotating image in my final rendered AVI file. But the rotating image does appear to stay round when I preview the project in the monitor window by holding down on the ALT button a dragging (scrubbing) the cursor along the timeline.
I can see that the round object that I am rotating becomes horizontally oblong and oval shaped when it hits the 90 degree, three o'clock position, then becomes perfectly round again when it hits the 180 degree, six o'clock position, then becomes horizontally oblong and oval shaped again at the 270 degree, nine o'clock position, then becomes perfectly round again at the 360 degree, twelve o'clock position.
This would indicate that if I try to compensate for this strangeness by altering my original round PSD file object to be a vertically elliptical shape to compensate, then it would be vertically oblong at the zero degree, 180 degree and 360 degree positions, meaning the twelve and six o'clock positions.
Is there any way to correct or compensate for this odd behaviour in Premiere 6?... that is, besides the very imprecise "Distortion" control in the Motion Settings dialog box?
Thanks for any input,
digi
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4. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 20, 2011 5:59 PM (in response to digiday)Not sure what is happening.
I just created an NTSC Standard (4:3, with PAR - 0.9) Image in PS, of use in a matching Project/Sequence. It was a colored circle, with a Stroke and then 4 circles of color, in about each quadrant, and then another Layer with straight lines through the center, of different colors. This was done on a Transparent Background.
I Imported the resultant PSD into PrPro as a Sequence, so that the two Layers were separate. I dragged those to the Timeline, and then applied a 3x Rotation to the "lines," and a -3x Rotation to the circle with the 4 little circles. It played perfectly, with the big circle and its little circles Rotatin counterclockwise, while the lines Rotated clockwise. There was no distortion, and the big circle, plus the little circles stated un-distorted.
For me, with the PSD and the PrPro Project/Sequence matching, all was well, and behaved, just as I had anticipated.
Good luck, and I wish that I knew was was happening to your test. Does that PSD match the Project/Sequence perfectly? Is your circle on a Transparent background?
Hunt
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5. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 20, 2011 8:14 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill,
First let me ask you, how is it that you apply a "3x rotation" to your layer/track?... I am using the Rotation setting in the Motion Settings dialog box and applying a 360 degree rotation to the "End" image there, as seen in the first image, directly below.
And, yes, my circular reels are on a transparent layer with an alpha channel applied.
If by "Project Matching" you mean that the PSD is the same base size (in my case 1280x720) as the project format, I have changed my imported circular reels to a square format PSD file in an attempt to make this work... originally, I was importing my circular reels from a matching rectangular 1280x720 format PSD file layer that matches my 1280x720 project format, but after your previous post on August 10th saying, "Remember, Pr Rotates on the rectangular Frame, and not by an object in that Frame.", then I've been trying a square image that matches the proportions of my circular reels. Either way, they end up oblong and distorted which ever way I do it.
But I just discovered something that puts a new wrinkle in to this problem... when I leave out my background layer with the base reel to reel player in it, as seen in the next image below, then the circular reels render perfectly round, as they should, when they spin.
But when I include my background layer, as seen in the third image below, then the circular reels come out oblong and distorted when they spin, as you can see in the image with the background layer in it below.
This new twist with the rendering going correctly when the background layer is left out (and these screenshots) should shed some light on what is going on.
Also, I'm wondering if you are using a different method of creating the rotation since you say you "...applied a 3x Rotation to the "lines," and a -3x Rotation to the circle with the 4 little circles..."
Your rotation method sounds different than the way that I'm creating the rotation, as I described at the top of this post.
Thanks,
digi
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6. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Ann Bens Aug 21, 2011 4:43 AM (in response to digiday)If you look at the bin the image is portrayed wrong, which you are experiencing now.
Which pixel aspect ratio did you use in Photoshop to make the tape.
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7. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 21, 2011 9:15 AM (in response to digiday)Digi,
Put each "reel" onto a separate Layer, with a Transparent Background. Import those, plus probably your tape machine's image, as a Sequence.
Open that Sequence up, to reveal each Layer (by my count, that should be three image Layers, the tape machine, plus one each for the reels), and drag them to the Timeline, with the Layer of the tape machine below the other two (the reels). Apply Motion>Rotation (adjust, as required) to each Layer with a reel.
For more detail on Rotation, and all that you can do with it, including the terms to enter for more than one Rotation, the Help File goes into great detail. For my 3x, I just type 3x into the Effects attribute box.
Good luck,
Hunt
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8. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 21, 2011 9:16 AM (in response to digiday)Digi,
Put each "reel" onto a separate Layer, with a Transparent Background. Import those, plus probably your tape machine's image, as a Sequence.
Open that Sequence up, to reveal each Layer (by my count, that should be three image Layers, the tape machine, plus one each for the reels), and drag them to the Timeline, with the Layer of the tape machine below the other two (the reels). Apply Motion>Rotation (adjust, as required) to each Layer with a reel. Check that your Anchor Point is set exactly to the center of each "reel," and not the default, which would be the center of the Frame.
For more detail on Rotation, and all that you can do with it, including the terms to enter for more than one Rotation, the Help File goes into great detail. For my 3x, I just type 3x into the Effects attribute box.
Good luck,
Hunt
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9. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 21, 2011 11:14 AM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill and Ann,
Thanks for your replies.
@Ann... I wrote this in my last post above...
"...I have changed my imported circular reels to a square format PSD files in an attempt to make this work... originally, I was importing my circular reels from a matching rectangular 1280x720 format PSD file layer that matches my 1280x720 project format, but after your (Bill's) previous post on August 10th saying, "Remember, Pr Rotates on the rectangular Frame, and not by an object in that Frame.", then I've been trying a square image that matches the proportions of my circular reels. Either way, they end up oblong and distorted which ever way I do it.
This means that I've tried importing my round reels as separate PSD file layers both in a rectangular format that matches my Premiere project format (1280x720) and also in a square format that matches the proportions of the circular reels... as I said, either way, they end up oblong and distorted. But before my last post, I discovered that if I leave out the background layer, but still have the same 1280x720 overall format settings in my project, then my reels stay correctly in proportion.
@Bill... if you look closely at my first screensshot above of the entire Premiere project window, you'll see that I already have my project set up as you have described... that's how I've been setting it up from the start.
All of the information that I included in my last post essentially covers the suggestions that you both have kindly given me in this post.
Bill, you said you typed, "3x" in the effects attribute box to get your rotation. So far, we haven't discussed applying any "Effects" to accomplish this rotation. We have been discussing using the "Rotation" setting in the "Motion Settings" dialog box, as you also mention in your last post. What effects attribute box are you referring to?
Previously, I looked at all of the Video Effects and I found "Rotation" under the "Transform" effects, along with scale and skew attributes controls, but that rotation effects attribute, while working nicely, is more appropriate for rotating one clip at a time, like for stop frame animation perhaps, but it doesn't create a full 360 "motion" rotation effect like the Rotation setting in the Motion Settings dialog box.
I think the main thing in my last post that gives some sort of clue here is the fact that my circular reels, both on separate layers, imported in my first test as 1280x720 PSD file layers to match the Premiere project format, only appear oblong when I add the background layer of the tape player. And in my second (actually 10th) test, I imported them on separate layers in a square PSD file format that borders the edges of the circular reel subject itself (to check to see what the result would be after Bill's answer on August 10th), and again, when I apply the background layer of the tape player, then that somehow adversely effects my reel layers, making them oblong during the motion rotation, just like in the latest test.
Let me restate...
The round reels stay in proportion when I don't apply the background layer of the tape player... when I apply the background layer with the tape player, then the otherwise round reels appear oblong at the 90 degree and 180 degree positions when a "Rotation" setting of 360 degrees is applied to the "End" image in the "Motion Settings" dialog box.
All tracks (three total, one for each reel and one for the tape player) have been created from separate PSD layers with an alpha channel and have an alpha channel set in the Transparency dialog box... otherwise you wouldn't be able to see both reels.
Both methods of importing the layers of the round reels, (1) in a rectangular 1280x720 PSD format that matches the Premiere project format, and (2) in a square PSD format that matches the size of the round reels, have been tested... both ways, the reels end up oblong only in the final rendered video and only when the background layer of the tape player is applied. When I scrub the timeline to preview, things appear correctly, with the reels appearing fully round throughout their entire rotation sequence.
Bill speaks of an "Effects" setting of 3x that he applied, yet we haven't discussed using any effects to produce this rotation sequence, and the only "Rotation" that I find in the effects palette is under "Transform" which creates a still image rotation, not for a moving image rotation.
Thanks,
digi
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10. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 12:47 PM (in response to digiday)Digi,
Rotation is one of the Fixed Effects, that is automatically applied to all Clips: Opacity, Rotation, Motion>Scale, Motion>Position, and Volume, if the Clip has Audio muxed in it. Those Fixed Effects can be animated in the Effects Control Panel, just like many, that are added from the Effects Panel.
Hope that helps,
Hunt
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11. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 1:34 PM (in response to digiday)I just animated both reels on a PSD of the recorder. Note: I just used your JPEG, so the "distorted" reels show slightly behind. See the FLV here: http://www.muvipix.com/cpg/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
I separated each reel onto a PSD with a Transparent Background, and placed them above the PSD of the recorder's body. I applied a 4x Rotation to each reel, per this image:
Hope that this helps and good luck,
Hunt
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12. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 1:43 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill,
Thanks for your reply. I was just finishing my reply when your most recent reply came through.
I think things may be different in your newer version of Premeire Pro.
The method that you describe, "apply a 3x or 4x rotation" is not available in Premiere 6. And again, the method that you are otherwise describing is what I've been doing from the very beginning.
In my Premiere 6, as you can see in the screenshot located six posts above this one, there are "Rotation", "Zoom" and "Delay" controls in the "Motion Setting" dialog box... here, I set my end image at "360 degrees" to get one motion rotation of my circular reels... there is no option to set it for "3x or 4x" as you referred to before.
Yet a different option for still image or fixed video single angle rotation is in my "Effect Controls" palette, also seen in my screenshot above. Once I select an effect from the "Video" tab in the "Transitions, Video, Audio" palette, there is an effect called "Transform" which, like I was saying in my last post, gives me a different "Rotation" as one of the effects, but that is not a motion rotation... it is just a still angle rotation of an image or video clip that doesn't create a motion rotation like the "Rotation" in the "Motion Settings" controls dialog box.
Aside from all of this, the problem still remains... once I place a layer below my round reel images that have the rotation applied to them via the "Rotation" setting of 360 degrees in the "Motion Settings" dialog box, then I get distorted oblong rotating reels.
As a work around (which created allot more work to get around this problem), I just did some frame by frame animation to get all the frames neccessary to create a 360 degree rotation. I made 36 different images with the reels at ten degree intervals for a 360 degree rotation of the reels on the tape deck machine, then placed all 36 images in one frame clips, then saved those 36 frame clips creating one rotation in a separate project file to re-import in to the larger main project file over and over to create multiple rotations of the spinning reels on the reel to reel machine.
The good side effect of this laborious method is that the reels appear very sharp and clear during their motion.
Whereas any motion otherwise created in Premiere 6 with the normal motion method via the "Motion Settings" dialog interface gives a somewhat distorted effect showing horizontal interlace lines (as seen in my screenshot above) that are evident but tolerable in my normal video productions from Premiere. I use the "deinterlace" setting in the project settings controls, but that does not eliminate the horizontal interlace lines that I always get after rendering a file in Premiere.
Creating the 36 images for the stop frame animation for this project was incredibley time consuming and what it does is creates very large Premiere project files that are over 43 megs in file size (just for the project files) since I end up with hundreds of one frame clips of the 36 still images that create one rotation of the spinning reels. Combine with still frame animation files for the moving audio meter needles on the face of the reel to reel tape deck, I end up with a Premiere file that sometime gives the "Out of memory" message when I try to import a new clip into that project or when I go to render the project. But if I close everything else, and sometimes setting my screen resolution to 16 bit instead of 32 bit, that helps enough to allow Premiere 6 to import, save and render within the larger project files with hundreds of individual frame images placed in the timeline.
I guess this distorted motion image problem, (which I also noticed before with to a small degree with lateral and vertical motion subjects who's motion was created in the "Motion Settings" dialog interface) is just an anomoly that is unavoidable in Premiere 6 once a layer is placed below any still images or video with motion applied to them.
Here's a link to my most recent full production of "A Flight Through Time in San Francisco" - Part Six - "On the Silver Screen". This is a newer one I finished since you commented on the prior "Part 5ive" movie segment...
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=pIeLTesn3uE&vq=hd720
Thanks,
digi
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13. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 1:54 PM (in response to digiday)Hi Bill,
I can now see that you are using a rotation method that you haven't otherwise described in your replies.
On your screenshot, in green you wrote, "A 4x rotation to the last frame's keyframe"... you haven't mentioned that you were using keyframes previously.
That is apparently how you get distortion-free motion in your videos.
I haven't gotten in to using keyframes as of yet in Premiere, so this method, since you didn't describe it before, was not evident to me.
I know how to use keyframes in FLASH animations with Flash, but I haven't gotten in to keyframes in Premiere yet. I'll have to read up on that in order to try your method.
Also, I'll have to try muvipix to post test samples as you did here (Thanks for that)... that looks like a good alternative to post this sort of test sample video instead of YouTube or Vimeo where I post my final productions.
Thanks,
digi
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14. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 2:02 PM (in response to digiday)Sorry. I assumed that as you were wishing to adjust/animate an Effect (the Fixed Effect>Motion>Rotation) over time, that you were already using Keyframes for that animation. My bad.
I do not remember the ins and outs of Pr 6.0, and exactly what was added when, or where. Maybe someone with a better memory, can give explicit details on how things worked in Pr 6.0.
Good luck,
Hunt
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15. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Ann Bens Aug 24, 2011 2:11 PM (in response to digiday)I cannot remember much from Premiere 6 or 6.5, but if you can make only one rotations why not copy/paste the clip a few times to make more rotations.
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16. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 2:13 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Bill,
That's okay. I'm sure keyframes work basically the same way in the new Premiere as they did in Premiere 6.
Can you briefly describe how you applied the rotation motion with keyframes, for my future reference?
Also, I just registered on Muvipix.com so I could post test samples there, but once registered, I only see access to the forum and I can't find how to upload videos there... I checked on my user control panel too, but all the tabs just are for normal forum controls, not for uploading a video... how do I upload video there once logged in to Muvipix?
Also, here's a link to a video using a previous rotation method via a rotation plug-in in Windows Movie Maker 6, then saving that video and applying it in Premiere. This method of rotation in Movie Maker only works if everything is perfectly centered in the video frame... it's kind of a fun little one minute+ video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=ZMUUWFiEzqY&vq=hd720
digi
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17. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 2:17 PM (in response to Ann Bens)Copying and pasting the single rotation over and over is what I did initially after creating the single 360 degree rotation in the "Motion Settings", (again, as seen in my screenshot above)... that's where, once a background layer is applied behind my rotations, I get the distorted obloang reels.
I'll post a sample of my sharp motion video created with single frame animation and moving meter needles on Muvipix once I figure out how to upload video there.
digi
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18. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 2:36 PM (in response to digiday)In the adjustment window for the Rotation parameters, in Effects Control Panel, I just clicked on the number, 0.0 when no parameters have been added, and typed in 4x. One could do the same by click-dragging on that parameter box, and scrubbing it to the point desired. For full Rotations, I just like to add the number of revolutions, and I will always end up with the exact number of revolutions, if that is what I want. If I wish to stop, before a complete revolution, I will then say do a 3x, 270 (degree) to end with that partial revolution.
I do not recall if Pr 6.0 allowed one to type in that parameter box, or to scrub inside of it.
As for Muvipix, you need to go to Gallery, and create your Galleries, and then upload to those. You can limit the viewing, password protect, etc.
As far as "centering" in PrPro (and I would assume Pr 6.0) one can set the Anchor Point, to get a "rotation," rather than a "revolution."
Good luck,
Hunt
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19. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 2:38 PM (in response to digiday)Bill,
I just figured out how to upload to muvipix via the Gallery page... somewhat of a well concealed method to upload.
But I'd still be insterested in your description of using keyframes to create the rotation motion. Sometimes in my instruction manual PDF file and via the webpage instructions for Premiere 6 the method of description is somewhat cryptic and it skirts around the basic information needed to accomplish some things.
Thanks,
digi
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20. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 2:48 PM (in response to digiday)In my screen-cap, I just toggled ON the Motion>Rotation on the first Frame, which added a Keyframe with Rotation set to 0.0. I then went to the end of the Clip (one could set this at any desired point), and added a Rotation Keyframe to the last Frame with the Add Keyframe - the circle in PrPro's Effects Control Panel with the ◄●►. Then, I clicked in that box, that had 0.0, and typed in "4x," which applied 4 Rotations, ending at 0.0 (same exact alignment, as that first Keyframe started). As you see, PrPro added the coordinates 0.0 to my 4x Rotation. Should I want the reels (in our case) to stop a bit beyond, I could have adjusted the angle, which would be added to the 4x rotation.
Now, if I do not want the Rotation to be linear (what I have there), I could change the Interpolation of the Keyframes, to maybe Ease Out, and then Ease In, where the Rotation would start out slowly, then come up to speed, and then slow down to the ending point. Depending on the drive mechanism of the tape deck, say belt, then that woudl probably be most realistic. With a direct-drive, however, the reels would start at full-speed, and then brake to a stop, with pretty linear motion. That is either a technical choice (recreating animation that mirrors the mechanics of the device), or aesthetic (how we feel the animation should work).
As for the Gallery in Muvipix, yes, I have to sit there, and try to remember the exact steps, and it usually takes me a moment. For those, who do it all of the time, it's second nature.
Good luck,
Hunt
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21. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 2:47 PM (in response to digiday)Bill,
My posts are going out before I recieve notice of your last post.
I'm checking now to see if I can enter 4x via the Effects control panel... but how do keyframes come in to play in this method?
The centering method was just something that I had to do in order to use the rotation plug-in within Windows Movie Maker, then I converted that base WMV file from Movie Maker 6 to an AVI file and placed that in Premiere to then put the record player layer on top, as seen in my "behind the scenes" video link.
Thanks,
digi
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22. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 4:41 PM (in response to digiday)Bill,
I'm still not getting the options that you are referring to in my Effects controls palette. The main difference is that my option for Rotation that is under "Transform" in my Effects control palette and this method does not create motion rotation, it only creates a still, slanted rotation of whatever still image or video clip that it is applied it to.
As you can see in my screenshot below, the yellow (1) phrase is pointing to this effect in the palette and it is stating that this is the "Transform>Rotation" effect in my effects palette, but there is no option to set it to "4x" (or any other 2x, 3x, etc. figure)... it only has parameters for rotation in degrees... and again, this only rotates the image or video clip to a fixed, rotated position... it does not create a motion rotation.
Then I found this 2nd "Transform" option in my effects palette, hightlighted at the red (2) phrase, but that effect does not include a rotation option at all... this folder in my effects palette is not for motion either.
I think all this misunderstanding boils down to you having different options available to you in Premiere Pro than I do in Premiere 6.
If you know of a way I can do the same thing that you are describing in my Premiere 6, please write me back.
Thanks,
digi
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23. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 5:51 PM (in response to digiday)Digi,
Keyframes allow one to alter Effects over time. They work with most Effects, and all of the Fixed Effects, like Motion>Scale, Motion>Position, Motion>Rotation, Opacity, and many added Effects.
My workflow is as follows:
- Select Clip/Still Image/Title, etc., to be animated.
- Open (if not already open) the Effects Control Panel.
- Add a Keyframe at the first Frame. This is most often done by toggling ON that Effect (stopwatch). Note: depending on what one will be doing, this might not be necessary, but is something that I do, predicated on using Keyframes in many other programs. I want a "base" Keyframe, with no alterations, i.e. a 0.0/0.0 setting.
- Move to where I want either the Effect to begin working, or in the case of Motion>Rotation, want it to end, and add another Keyframe.
- Make any parameter changes to the Keyframe for that Effect.
- If necessary, I will add other Keyframes for that, and any other Effect.
- Set WAB (Work Area Bar) over that Clip, and Render for best playback.
Hope that helps,
Hunt
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24. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 5:54 PM (in response to digiday)When you Select a Clip, and then open the Effects Control Panel, do you not see any Fixed Effects, like Motion>Scale, Motion>Position, Motion>Rotation, Opacity, or Volume, if you have Audio muxed in the Clip?
If not, then maybe the Fixed Effects were added later on. Based on working with several Pr 6.5 Projects, they were there then.
Good luck, and sorry that I am not current on Pr 6.0. Probably just too many differences between my older PrPro 2.0 and Pr 6.0. Sorry.
Hunt
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25. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 24, 2011 6:56 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Bill,
No, there is no "Motion"-anything in the Effects palette in Premiere 6. So none of your generous instructions work for me.
There is only "Perspective>Transform>Rotation" (as seen in the screenshot in my last post) and that is apparently not a motion control... it only works to make a fixed angle for an image or video clip.
The only motion controls that I have in Premiere 6 are in the "Motion Settings" Dialog box, as seen in my original screenshot 20 floors up in this thread, and that's where, if I have a background layer behind my motion reels, I get the distorted warped motion effect in my reels.
I guess this long thread has been somewhat of a wild goose chase for all of us.
Thanks for your efforts,
digi
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26. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 24, 2011 9:56 PM (in response to digiday)No, there is no "Motion"-anything in the Effects palette in Premiere 6.
Let's clarify here. First, there is the Effects Panel, with the various Effects to be added. Then, there is the Effects Control Panel, that allows one to adjust any added Effects, plus also lists the Fixed Effects. In the Effects Control Panel, are you you saying that there are no Fixed Effects, like Opacity?
If so, then I cannot be of any help.
Good luck,
Hunt
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27. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Ann Bens Aug 25, 2011 7:47 AM (in response to Bill Hunt)Premiere 6 has a somewhat different interface than Premiere Pro.
Premiere 6 does come with a book and pdf Help.
What is this? See screendump
I do not think you set rotation in the Transform effect but in the motion settings and keyframe them over time in the motion settings where it says Time (like in your first screendump). One can go beyond 360 degrees.
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28. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 8:08 AM (in response to Ann Bens)Ann,
Thank you for that info. I just could not remember exactly how things were done in Pr 6.5, and never even touched Pr 6. I thought that I had an old Pr 6.0 book, but probably gave that away, as I cannot find that in my library.
I had anticipated that the Rotation that Digi needs is Motion>Rotation, and not an added Transform Effect, but without the program to experiment with, was at a loss.
Appreciated,
Hunt
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29. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 10:13 AM (in response to digiday)Digi,
Maybe this will be helpful:
Animating a still image
Using the controls in Premiere’s Motion dialog box, you can move, resize, rotate, or distort any video or still
image clip in your project. You can also use the Transform effect to animate, resize, rotate, or distort a clip. See
online Help for more information on the Transform effect.
Creating a motion path All motion effects are
located in the Motion Settings dialog box. For
more information, see “Animating a clip’s motion”
on page 311.
The above is from the Pr 6.0 Help File (PDF).
Good luck,
Hunt
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30. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Ann Bens Aug 25, 2011 10:13 AM (in response to Bill Hunt)I still have some screendumps that sometimes will trigger my memory.
I know there are some users around that still use 6.5.
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31. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 10:16 AM (in response to Bill Hunt)Here is a bit more detail on adjusting the parameters/values for Effects, like Motion>Rotation:
Rotating, zooming, delaying, and distorting
For each motion keyframe on the path, you can set values for rotation, zoom, and delay,
and define a shape for distorting the clip. By specifying different values at different motion
keyframes, you can rotate, zoom, delay, and distort the clip over time.
To rotate, zoom, or delay the clip:
1 On the motion path or the timeline in the Motion Settings dialog box, select the motion
keyframe at which you want to add rotation, zooming, or distortion.
2 Drag the slider or type a value for the following controls as needed:
• For Rotation, set the angle of rotation for a clip at the specified keyframe. The angle
can range from –1440 degrees to 1440 degrees, resulting in up to eight full rotations
(clockwise or counterclockwise) of the clip between keyframes. (One full rotation is
equal to 360 degrees.)
• For Zoom, increase or decrease the size of a clip at a specific keyframe on the motion
path. The zoom percentage can range from 0 to 500. At 0, the clip is not visible; at 100, the
clip is at its original size.
• For Delay, direct the motion of a clip to pause for the specified amount of time. The delay
value is a percentage of the duration of the clip. A delay percentage cannot exceed the
distance in time to the next motion keyframe. When a delay has been added, a blue bar
appears on the timeline, displaying the length of the delay.
Good luck,
Hunt
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32. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 25, 2011 10:57 AM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill and Ann,
Thank you for your continueing help.
The motion settings dialog interface that Bill is referring to is the way that I've been controlling my still image and video image motion all along... that's how I have been creating the circular motion of the reels in my tests, as seen in my original screenshot 20+ levels up from here in one of my original posts in this thread... there you can see my settings in the "Motion Settings" dialog interface. This is also how I've been creating my linear motion, zooms and intended distortions.
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But let me restate this as clearly as possible... that "Motion Settings" interface that has "Rotation" "Zoom" "Delay" and "Distortion" successfully creates the circular motion with the "Rotation" setting, but, as I said, once a background layer is placed behind the rotating reels, or anything with "Rotation" applied, then it distorts the reels on the layers on top of the background layer and makes them oblong... that has been the problem that I was troubleshooting all along and is the reason I started this thread originally.
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The "Motion" setteings check box that Ann is seeing in the Effects control palette is actually on that palette, but that takes me to the Motion Settings control interface that I have been using all along, meaning the one that I'm referring to in the paragraph above and that Bill is referring to. I mis-spoke when I said that there is "no Motion-anything" in the effects palette, but that "Motion Setup" checkbox is at the top of the Effects Control palette, and there is no "Motion" to select in the actual palette of effects where there are the "Transitions", "Video" and "Audio" tabs that contain the actual selection of transitions, video effects and audio effects to choose from.
I was going to offer to send my Premiere 6 PDF instruction manual to Bill or Ann to see if either of you wanted to check it to confirm my findings here, but it sounds like Bill already has an instruction manual for Premiere 6.
So I've been using that "Motion Settings" interface all along, or I never would have been able to create any linear motion, rotation, zoom, or motion paths in any of my prior productions. But this is where the original problem comes from in Premiere 6 where any rotation applied to an item that then has a background layer placed behind it gets the distorted, oblong shape applied to it when it hits the 90 degree and 270 degree points of rotation, being a gradual change in its distorted shape, and it returns to its original shape at the the 180 degree and 360 degree points of rotation.
If you'd like me to send my full 9 plus megabyte Premiere 6 PDF file to either of you, I can send it if I have an email address that could be sent to me via a private message.
Thanks,
digi
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33. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 11:41 AM (in response to digiday)So Digi, are you saying that you can add Rotation to the two separate Still Images of the reels, on Transparent Backgrounds, but as soon as you place any Still Image on the Video Track Below, the Rotation applied to those two reel Images then distorts?
Am I correct that you have three images, the tape deck, on Video Track 1, and then one each reel with a Transparent Background, on Video Track 2, and 3?
I just cannot imagine how having that tape deck Still Image below the two reel Still Images would affect Rotation to Distort, but stranger things have happened. That just does not make sense to me, from a program design standpoint.
Good luck, and sorry that the Help Files was, well less than helpful.
Hunt
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34. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 25, 2011 12:07 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill,
Yes, now you have it. That is exactly what is happening. If you look back at my origianl movie project interface screenshot, you can see the little pink movie clip segments on the timeline showing two sets of clips on video tracks 3 and 4 that show up as "Test re...", "Test re...", "Test re...", over and over, standing for "Test reel.psd", and then the layer below/behind showing up as "Test machine_1.psd" on video track 2.
This strange anomaly is not limited to this project... this distortion in still images and video clips when the rotation setting is applied has shown up in lesser degrees when a smaller degree of rotation was applied to other bits and pieces of still images and moving video via that rotation setting in the Motion Settings dialog box previously in other projects. The distortion just showed up in a big way this time because this was the first time I was applying a full 360 degree rotation to anything.
It only shows up when a layer of video or still image is placed behind/below the subject with the rotation applied... when there is no image or video behind/below my rotated subject, then that subject renders correctly, in its proper, origianl proportions throughout a full 360 rotation.
And as I said, the distortion gradually builds to a maximum between 0 degrees and 90 degrees of rotation, then gradually goes back to the correct proportions between 90 and 180 degrees, then it builds to a maximum distortion again between the 180 and 270 degree points of rotation, then gradually returns to its correct shape between the 270 and 360 degree points of rotation, and on and on.
This is the case with any image shape or video clip, not just round subjects.
Thanks,
digi
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35. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 12:29 PM (in response to digiday)What happens if you change the location of your Stills on the Video Tracks?
Now, you have your tape deck on Video 2, with the reels above that on Video Tracks 3 & 4. Video Track 1 is empty. Just thinking here.
I cannot come up with any idea why you would be getting a Skew-like Distortion, when you ONLY have used Rotation. That just does not make sense to me, but then I do not have Pr 6.0 to test with. When I want Rotation, I want to pick an Anchor Point, about which to Rotate, and then establish the degree of Rotation over time (hence the use of Keyframes in PrPro). Also, how having an unaffected Still Image on a lower Video Track, should not have anything to do with Effects added to Clips above, at least not that I can find reason for.
Wish that I could be more helpful, but am at a total loss to explain what you are encountering - odd behavior, to say the least.
Good luck, and maybe Ann, or John T. Smith (he might still have Pr 6.5 on a computer?), can offer some ideas. I am flat out now.
Hunt
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36. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 12:44 PM (in response to digiday)Just as a test, I recreated the spinning reels in PrElements 4.0. While that is a different program, it is, in some ways, closer to the old Pr programs, than to PrPro. I just wanted to see if there was anything odd with it. There was not. As soon as I recalled how Keyframing Effects differs in it vs PrPro, I was able to do the same, as with the that FLV that I did. Guess that PrE 4.0 is closer to PrPro, than to Pr 6.0. Nothing odd, and the behavior was just as you desired.
Worth a few minutes (and I needed a refresher on PrE Keyframing), but yielded absolutely zero.
Sorry,
Hunt
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37. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 25, 2011 1:22 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill,
Like I was saying, I've noticed this odd distortion to a lesser degree in rotated subjects with smaller rotations applied in previous projects. I was using smaller, non-motion rotations on video clips and still images before so it only showed up in a very small way as a slight skew of images and video. This was the first time I was using a full 360 degree rotation that had motion, and it happened to be with perfectly round subjects, the reels. So this time it made itself perfectly evidend as to how this distortion was happening, to what degree and at which points of rotation that the distortion peaked.
In this and my previous projects I've had my still images and video clips on all different layer numbers in different order and with almost every concievable configuration.
I've already done my laborious work around on this reel to reel video and I'm uploading my little test file to Muvipix now. I uploaded it last night, but it turned out to be 211 kb over their file size limit, so I'm uploading it again with a slightly shorten file.
But I wanted to try to figure out this problem because I'm doing some other similar photo animations with spinning wheels and I thought if I could figure the problem out, then I'd save myself allot of time doing all stop frame animation with these semi-complex photo images.
I'll send you the link once this test file is posted on Muvipix.
Thanks again,
digi
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38. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
Bill Hunt Aug 25, 2011 1:45 PM (in response to digiday)Digi,
I'll make you an offer.I am in town, until just after Labor Day (US), and have some spare time. If you would like, I will be glad to create the animation for you. Just let me know. I would need the full specs. of your Project, such as FPS, Frame Size, any PAR considerations, Duration, number of Rotations (clockwise, or counter), any Color Mattes for background, etc., and then the Image Files in high-rez. I can cut out, and knock out the reels in PS, but would also like to see the exact layout in your Project's Frame.
You can probably attach the Image(s) to e-mail, if your POP server can handle that. If not, I use YouSendIt, and they store large files on their server, for download by clients.
I would probably recommend outputting to Lagarith Lossless, but you would need to check whether Pr 6.0 will work with that CODEC. Lagarith Lossless is free, and you would want the 32-bit version.
Let me know, and I can be reached at info AT huntphoto DOT com. Obviously, AT = @ and DOT = .
Good luck,
Hunt
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39. Re: Using "ROTATE" in Premiere 6 warps image
digiday Aug 25, 2011 2:15 PM (in response to Bill Hunt)Hi Bill,
That's a very generous offer, but as I said in my last post, I've already completed the reel to reel video animation by creating it with stop frame animation.
The Lagarith Lossless codec is the one that I'm already using for rendering in Premiere 6.
I was continueing my troubleshooting attempts on this forum here with you since I had already started this thread 15 days ago and I'm about to start some other spinning motion animation video to go along with the reel to reel machine that I've already completed with stop frame animation.
Now there are problems with Muvipix playing a WMV file after I've uploaded it there, so I'm troubleshooting yet another problem with someone on their forum. After another hour, if Muvipix can't play a WMV file, then I'll just upload it to my YouTube or Vimeo account and send you a link to this "reel to reel" test file later.
Thanks for your nice offer,
digi








