1 2 Previous Next 57 Replies Latest reply on Apr 7, 2012 9:48 AM by lasvideo

    DV Pal Multicam Preview screen

    lasvideo Level 4

      I am working on a DV Pal 720 x 576 (1.4 pixel ration) 25 fps multicam rock band piece. Multicam worked very well. The only bummer was when in the Multicam mode only the Preview window was extremely pixilated. The 4 playback screens looked fine and after shutting down MC the Record window looked great. It was just a little disconcerting for the clients to see this really crappy image while I was cutting it together. The only other relevent info that that in the Sequence settings, the preview is set to Quicktime DV PAL, DV 25. This is what it defaulted to when I used the Make Sequence button when syncing the clips at first. I don't see any controls for the Multicam Preview monitor anywhere.

        • 1. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
          lasvideo Level 4

          I did some after session testing to see why the preview display in Multicam mode looks so pixilated. I bult a new sequence that used I Frame Only MPEG in the Sequence setting Preview option (instead of DV25). The image still looks like crap. I will wait to hear from informed users on this forum  before reporting this to Adobe support.

          • 2. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Try in a DV AVI environment, not a QuiRcktime wrapper. Rewrap you MOV to AVI. Let us know if that solves it.

            • 3. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
              lasvideo Level 4

              Thanks for the input Harm. I try to stay away from AVI utilization on the Mac. I've had some issues with it in the past (in a variety of software) and tend to stick with has consistently worked for me over the years...Quicktime. The irony is that its just the Multicam window (that on closer inspection)  pixelates all the screens. Since the Preview screen is larger than the 4 playback screens that it is more evident there.

              • 4. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Sorry, you did not mention you were on MAC and 9 out of 10 use PC, so I made the wrong assumption. QuiRcktime can be problematic on PC but not on MAC. Mea culpa for making the incorrect assumption.

                 

                Unfortunately, I have no experience with MAC, so before I make further assumptions or other mistakes, please let me bow out...

                • 5. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                  lasvideo Level 4

                  Ha..ha..no mea culpa necessary. I actually owe you one for not including Mac in my header or test.

                  Sorry. Hey, I appreciate you giving it a shot never the less.

                  • 6. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                    lasvideo Level 4

                    I submitted a bug report.

                    • 7. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                      Powered by Design Level 4

                      make sure you have your playback set to full before going to the multi-cam editor.

                       

                      What version are you on ?

                       

                       

                      GLenn

                      • 8. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        I submitted a bug report.

                         

                        I don't believe this is a bug.  PP will naturally degrade the resolution in order to keep smooth multicam playback.  What you're seeing is normal.

                        • 9. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                          lasvideo Level 4

                          Glenn. good thought, but I was at full resolution . Its 5.5

                          • 10. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                            lasvideo Level 4

                            No Jim, I dont think that is the case. This is SD footage coming off a raid that has access speeds at 745 mbps.My system plays 2k Red just fine at full resolution.  Even when parked on a still frame the images are highly pixelated. My gut feeling is that something else is the issue here.

                             

                            Tom Daigon
                            Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
                            www.hdshotsandcuts.com
                            Mac Pro 3,1
                            8 core 3.2 Xeon
                            10.6.8
                            Nvidia Quadro 4000
                            24 gigs ram
                            Maxx Digita / Areca 8tb. raid

                            • 11. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                              lasvideo Level 4

                              Screen shot 2011-08-13 at 6.30.54 PM.png

                              A screen grab doesnt quite represent how bad it looks. The client freaked thinking all his footage looked bad until I turned off Multicam and he saw this

                               

                               

                              Screen shot 2011-08-13 at 6.33.22 PM.png

                              • 12. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                I still think that's normal.  I see it all the time with my own DV footage.

                                • 13. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                  lasvideo Level 4

                                  Well Jim, it maybe normal, but for professional software used in client situations it is unacceptable. I can assure you that multicam in FCP and Avid dont display degraded images. Hence the bug report. It may be good enough for folks editing alone but if Adobe embraces the broadening range of users (especially those in facilities or those that have clients in bay) this needs to be addressed.

                                  • 14. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    I won't argue with that.

                                    • 15. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                      lasvideo Level 4

                                      Well , lets hope enough other folks agree so Adobe can see it as a priority. I know they have a lot on their plate at the moment.

                                      • 16. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                        Believe it or not, the multicam monitor looks worse than it used to in earlier versions. Multicam editing now takes me half again and sometimes twice as long as it used to, because you don't see things like camera shake or out-of-focus shots, and I have to go back and fix far more than I previously did. MC definitely needs an upgrade in CSFutureVersion.

                                        • 17. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                          lasvideo Level 4

                                          Well, to quote one of the most helpful / entertaining folks on this forum...."You know what to do".  

                                           

                                          I love the fact that we can actively participate with Adobe in making this software better and better. I got tired of being paid lip service by Avid and being totally ignored by Apple.

                                          • 18. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                                            Hmm... sounds vaguely familiar!

                                             

                                            Adobe's been thrust into a rather unenviably position, IMO. For a good while, they were able to sort of quietly but consistently improve Premiere Pro; regular users were accustomed to various quirks and shortcomings, and able to deal with them for the most part, while newcomers were quick to reopen old wounds. Now, with the absolutely bizarre flip-out by Apple, there is suddenly a lot more attention on PPro, and an army of potential new users storming the castle. While many are sure to find a lot to like about PPro, there are as many or more who will find things they hate, simply because Premiere Pro doesn't have this or do that quite the same as their previous NLE of choice. Adobe is going to have a tough go of it, because it's a choice of either adapting or evolving--they're not the same thing, and whichever way they go, some folks are not going to be 100% happy. As a long time (relatively) Premiere Pro user, I want to see evolution (not FCP X style evolution, mind you ), and not adaptation. Sure, there's middle ground, but that's even more dangerous territory--the risk of making nobody happy abounds there.

                                             

                                            Interesting times, indeed.

                                            • 19. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                              ZachRosing Level 1

                                              I've been using Multicam in Premiere Pro since CS3--both on Windows and the Mac, and I can assure you this isn't normal--the feature is broken with CS5.5 when using Mercury Playback Engine.

                                               

                                              In all previous versions, no, the quality isn't as clear as it is in the Program window. Part of this is because the windows always fit to the size of the Multicam window, so you're always getting some resizing going on that makes the image fuzzy. And lately one of my tracks has been AVCHD footage, which shows very strange artifacting that doesn't happen when you play it in a regular timeline. None of this is a big issue though.

                                               

                                              The problem with CS5.5 is brand new. I'm using a Mac Pro 3,1 with Lion and a GTX285, and there's another forum post about someone experiencing the exact same problem on Windows. With MPE turned on, this is what the Multicam window looks like:

                                              Screen Shot 2011-09-02 at 11.50.27 AM.png

                                               

                                              http://dl.dropbox.com/u/146585/Screen%20Shot%202011-09-02%20at%2011.50.27%20AM.png

                                              Screen Shot 2011-09-02 at 11.50.28 AM.png

                                               

                                              http://dl.dropbox.com/u/146585/Screen%20Shot%202011-09-02%20at%2011.50.28%20AM.png

                                              Screen Shot 2011-09-02 at 11.50.32 AM.png

                                               

                                              http://dl.dropbox.com/u/146585/Screen%20Shot%202011-09-02%20at%2011.50.32%20AM.png

                                               

                                              The resizing probably makes it tough to tell what's happening, so click through for the full-size images. Evan the media pending screen is extremely blocky. CS5 and previous versions didnt look anything like this.

                                               

                                              If I turn off MPE in the project settings, suddenly everything is fixed:

                                              Screen Shot 2011-09-02 at 11.50.58 AM.png

                                              http://dl.dropbox.com/u/146585/Screen%20Shot%202011-09-02%20at%2011.50.58%20AM.png

                                               

                                              If I load this exact same project in CS5 (after it tells me it was saved in a different version and it has to convert it), it looks perfectly fine, with and without MPE turned on.

                                               

                                              As far as I can tell all my drivers are up to date--CUDA 4.0.50 installed (and the same thing happened with the 4.0.3whatever version), and 270.0505f01 appears to be the most recent version of the graphics driver--the version that came with Lion. And again, exact same machine, you use CS5 and it's fine.

                                               

                                              Sick and tired of paying for upgrades that repeat the same old cycle...something that worked fine 2 versions ago gets broken 1 version ago...the upgrade fixes that problem but breaks something else!! Been dealing with this same old crap as long as I've been an Adobe customer and I'm tired of it!

                                              • 21. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                I'm using a Mac Pro 3,1 with Lion

                                                 

                                                On a side note, we've seen a lot of folks switching over from FCP to PP lately, which I highly commend.  Much as I'd rather it were otherwise, most of these folks are making only half the switch, sticking to the Mac platform.  And when issues arise, information like the quote above is often posted.

                                                 

                                                But that info is not as helpful as one might think.  As most regulars here are PC users, it's far more helpful to post the exact model number of the CPU and Operating system than to say what kind of Mac it is or what speed the CPU runs at (which used to mean a lot more than it does nowadays).  I just don't know Macs.  I've no desire to go rooting around the Internet to find out what the capabilities of a Mac Pro are.

                                                 

                                                So Mac users, instead of saying you have an iMac, or an MBP, say instead you have an i7 920 with OS 10.6.5, or whatever the specific details of your system are.  It'll be far more helpful to us, giving us a picture of how your system should be performing.

                                                • 22. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                  ZachRosing Level 1

                                                  We stick with the Mac platform because we prefer to only be infuriated by Adobe, not Adobe AND Microsoft. And as the first post seems to indicate, this issue doesn't appear to be Mac specific.

                                                   

                                                  My machine is a Mac Pro 3,1 (which means Early 2008) 2x2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 8 GB RAM w/ Lion 10.7.1 NVIDIA GTX285.

                                                  • 23. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                                    Zack - Been dealing with this same old crap as long as I've been an Adobe customer and I'm tired of it!"

                                                     

                                                    Sorry you are so frustrated with PrP Zack. Maybe you should consider switching to FCP X      Or maybe Avid?

                                                     

                                                    Listen, if turning off MPE solves the problem ( which I will check after writing this entry) then thats a good temp solution for me. I dont need or use MPE during the process of cutting with Multicam. This  situation pales in comparison to the nightmares of trying to work with FCP X that I experienced for about a week.

                                                     

                                                    Tom Daigon
                                                    Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
                                                    www.hdshotsandcuts.com
                                                    Mac Pro 3,1
                                                    8 core
                                                    10.6.8
                                                    Nvidia Quadro 4000
                                                    24 gigs ram
                                                    Maxx Digita / Areca 8tb. raid

                                                    • 24. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                      ZachRosing Level 1
                                                      Listen, if turning off MPE solves the problem ( which I will check after writing this entry) then thats a good temp solution for me.

                                                      If that works for you, great, but it's not a solution for me. I've invested too much money in this system to specifically use the Mercury Playback Engine, which was great in CS5. 5.5 needs to perform correctly.

                                                       

                                                      Had a discussion w/ tech support last night about this, and they're investigating and supposed to call be back today.

                                                      • 25. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                        lasvideo Level 4

                                                        I look forward to hearing how this is resolved.

                                                         

                                                        Just out of curiosity. When you are cutting in the Multicam mode, how are you utilizing MPE ? I recently bought the Nvidia 4000 and was educated as to what it does and what it doesnt do, so this is if special interest to me.

                                                        • 26. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                          Why you stick with a Mac is another issue for later.  Here, I'm only trying to get specific information from those who want to stick with the Mac.

                                                           

                                                          What model Xeon would be more helpful than how many core, or a speed rating, or when it came out.

                                                          • 27. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                            ZachRosing Level 1

                                                            I'm not sure what else I can tell you. It's an Intel Xeon. That's all my machine tells me. Here's the system information:

                                                            Screen Shot 2011-09-02 at 12.47.49 PM.png

                                                            And here is Apple's spec page for my machine:

                                                             

                                                            http://support.apple.com/kb/SP11 (I'm the standard configuration)

                                                             

                                                            I can't find anywhere that it says anything other than Intel Xeon Quad-Core

                                                            • 28. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              It must say somewhere.  In the paper documentation, on the box it came in, some type of hardware management dialog, something.  It's really very helpful to know which model CPU.  That's the info we need.  It would benefit Mac users to do the work and locate that info.

                                                              • 29. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                ZachRosing Level 1
                                                                Just out of curiosity. When you are cutting in the Multicam mode, how are you utilizing MPE ? I recently bought the Nvidia 4000 and was educated as to what it does and what it doesnt do, so this is if special interest to me.

                                                                Honestly, I don't know if Premiere is utilizing MPE when I'm in the Multicam window. Based on the poor visual performance of my AVCHD footage in CS5 inside Multicam, maybe it's not. I do know that my performance using Multicam got a LOT better once I got CS5 and my CUDA card. Multicam in CS4 could be very laggy.

                                                                 

                                                                But I'm constantly switching back and forth between Multicam and the Program window throughout my edit, where I know MPE is utilized, and not going to dig into the preferences to turn things on and off every time I need to switch over.

                                                                • 30. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                  lasvideo Level 4

                                                                  I can understand why switching back and forth would be a pain in the butt.

                                                                   

                                                                  In reference to Jims request about more details about your CPU, dont sweat it. Provide what you know like I do...

                                                                   

                                                                  Tom Daigon
                                                                  Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
                                                                  www.hdshotsandcuts.com
                                                                  Mac Pro 3,1
                                                                  2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon
                                                                  10.6.8
                                                                  Nvidia Quadro 4000
                                                                  24 gigs ram
                                                                  Maxx Digita / Areca 8tb. raid

                                                                   

                                                                  And if that isnt enough for a PC user to be helpful, well maybe someone else will chime in with a solution based on thier Mac experiences.

                                                                  • 31. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                    And if that isnt enough for a PC user to be helpful, well maybe someone else will chime in with a solution based on thier Mac experiences.

                                                                     

                                                                    That's all I'm really saying here.  I'm not going to do the work of finding out the required info.  If you don't want to do the work yourself and post that data, then I (or others) may not be able to help.

                                                                     

                                                                    It's ceratinly not a shwostopper of a situiation.  You just might not get all available help as quickly as possible.  That's my only point.

                                                                    • 32. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                      ZachRosing Level 1
                                                                      It's really very helpful to know which model CPU.  That's the info we need.

                                                                      I missed it further down the page on Apple's tech specs site. I think its this:

                                                                       

                                                                      Intel Xeon E5462 2.8 GHz (4 cores)

                                                                      • 33. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                        lasvideo Level 4

                                                                        Zach, FYI I submitted a bug report on this issue.

                                                                         

                                                                        But I also want to thank you for giving me a work around. The resulting images when MPE is turned off are a pleasure to cut with compared to the pixelated ones.

                                                                        • 34. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                          ZachRosing Level 1

                                                                          Is anybody out there NOT experiencing this issue w/ CS5.5, a CUDA card and MPE turned on?

                                                                          • 35. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                            ZachRosing Level 1

                                                                            Support called back today and told me the issue has been escalated and I'll hear back from them after the weekend. Hopeful that means it might be resolved soon!    

                                                                            • 36. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                              AsianOcean.com Level 1

                                                                              I am surprised that it is still not resolved, and tech support is escalating it NOW? Like they never knew this was a problem introduced in CS5.5? And this is not a Mac specific issue. It is a CS5.5 issue. I have been dreaming of spending the money for the upgrade 5.5 because it is smoother than CS5, but I do a lot of multicam editing and the horrible multicam window was 'disheartening.' People are suggesting to turn off MPE and shut up. But MPE was the reason we were so excited about this technology and that's why we spent and want to spend more money to acquire the upgrade. And it WAS working fine in CS5!

                                                                               

                                                                              Intel 2600K cpu on Asus P8P67 Pro mobo
                                                                              16 GB ram

                                                                              GTX 480 display card
                                                                              Two SATA 3 1TB drives RAID 0 for video

                                                                              SATA 3 500 Gig sys drive

                                                                              750W power supply

                                                                              Win 7 64bit.

                                                                              • 37. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                                lasvideo Level 4

                                                                                For the record, I just cut a small music video together . When in the Multicam Mode, turning off the Quadro 4000 CUDA harware  (which is turning off CUDA not MPE) had no effect on anything I was doing. When I finished live cutting I turned off the Multicam mode to refine the edit the card went back on. Yes, it needs addressing so how about making that request to Adobe so something gets done instead of whining about it.

                                                                                 

                                                                                https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                                                                 

                                                                                To tell you the truth, I am much more concerned with the limitation of only 4 cameras. But I have expressed that to the folks that can doing something about it.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If you enjoy complaining about stuff without taking the responsibility to do something to change it, thats fine. But if its really upsetting you Avid still might be having a sale. Your choice.

                                                                                 

                                                                                And just to be clear...here is the offical word on what CUDA does...

                                                                                 

                                                                                What does Premiere Pro accelerate with CUDA?


                                                                                Here’s a list of things that Premiere Pro CS5 and later can process with CUDA:

                                                                                • some effects (complete list at the bottom of this post)
                                                                                • scaling (details here)
                                                                                • deinterlacing
                                                                                • blending modes
                                                                                • color space conversions

                                                                                It’s worth mentioning one set of things that Premiere Pro doesn’t process using CUDA: encoding and decoding.

                                                                                • 38. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                                  ZachRosing Level 1

                                                                                  Lasvideo, your response is confusing to me. This is a bug we're talking about, not a request for a future improvement. This is functionality that I paid $400 for, which worked perfectly fine in CS5, that is broken. I'm not going to cross my fingers that it gets fixed in CS6--I want it fixed today. Until it's fixed I can't use the software I bought--I'm sure it doesn't impact everyone the same way, but my specific work flow is broken until this is fixed. It would be one thing if all versions of PPro showed a pixelated viewer, but I can run CS5 on the exact same machine, with the exact same project, and it works perfectly fine. And this bug is reproducable on both platforms with different hardware.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The 4 camera limitation--that's a feature request--Adobe is under no obligation to offer that. That's where, after 4 major upgrades and still it hasn't been offered, you should start talking with your money and buy Avid. I personally couldn't care less if they offer more than 4 cameras. The BUG we're talking about, yes I'm planning to whine and pout and scream until it's fixed...on here, on the phone, whatever I have to do. I don't want to switch to Avid, or FCPX, or Windows, I want the software I paid for to do what it says it will do.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I'm personally annoyed because I've seen this same thing play out over and over since CS3. Something breaks that wasn't broken before and I have to adapt and hope it gets fixed next time around, or switch platforms. Maybe it's my fault for continuing to give them their money. Here's an example: in every version of Encore since the beginning of time (I've used them all), when you use all automatic transcoding settings, for a 2 hour video Encore will use pretty much the entire amount of free space on the disc. But starting with CS5, it changed, and leaves 500 megs (that's 10% of the disc!) empty, even though the dialogue boxes say--before transcoding--it's using all the space. So you have to tell it to make a 5.2gb image instead of 4.7gb as a workaround. Except, wait, it doesn't ALWAYS do that...sometimes for no discernable reason at all, it will use the full space, so now you have a 5.2gb image. Ok, so I re-render it as a 4.7gb, since this magic project is gonna use all the space I give it. Nope, now it's back to 4.2gb. And when I talk to Adobe Support? They insist this is by design. WTF??

                                                                                   

                                                                                  So what do I do? ...I pay $400 for CS5.5 hoping maybe it's fixed. Sigh.

                                                                                  • 39. Re: DV Pal Multicam Preview screen
                                                                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                                                                    Zach - "This is a bug we're talking about, not a request for a future improvement."

                                                                                     

                                                                                    If you took a moment to check out the link its is for BUGS and features. The more requests, the more likely the fix is expedited. Probably aint gonna happen NOW.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Zach - yes I'm planning to whine and pout and scream until it's fixed.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    And by the way, dont forget to threaten to hold your breath till you turn blue  ;-)

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