24 Replies Latest reply on Aug 23, 2011 4:29 AM by TᴀW

    Master Pages

    sperry1975 Level 1

      OK, I'm trying to do something I've never been able to figure out before and I need help making these things happen.  I have a large document and every 4th page from page 1 on has it's own master and every 4th page from page 2 on has it's mater and every the same goes for page 3 on and 4 on through the entire document.  Incase that's not clear here's an example:

      Page 1 is assigned master A

      Page 2 is assigned master B

      Page 3 is assigned master C

      Page 4 is assigned master D

      Page 5 is assigned master A

      Page 6 is assigned master B

      Page 7 is assigned master C

      Page 8 is assigned master D

      (Do you see how the repetition is going)

      This repetition needs to continue to the end and if any more pages are added they need to follow the repetition.  Can this be done in InDesign or is old PageMaker the only one that can do it?  Please say it can be done in inDesign with relative ease.

      If what I need to do is make 1 or 2 master that are double facing pages then I can do that, but I would then need to apply master 1 (2 facing page master) to pages 1 and 2, 5 and 6, 9 and 10, etc.  Then I would need to apply master 2 (2 facing page master) to pages 3 and 4, 7 and 8, 11 and 12, etc.  Therefore this would be a rather time consuming process to apply in these master for every page throughout the document.  Unless someone knows of a code so that when I click "apply masters to" I can designate some kind of code like all evens or all odds or whatever it takes, but something quick.

      To me it would be much easier to create a 4 page master spread and apply that to all pages so that they all come out like they need to.  Strangly when I tried this I discovered that InDesign Applied the 1st two master pages to the pages created but dumped the last two master pages and just kept recycling the 1st two.  Can anyone help me with this problem?

        • 1. Re: Master Pages
          Grant H Level 4

          if i understand you correctly... right click on a page in the pages panel and select Apply Master to Pages , select the master (eg Master A)  you want applied and then in the To Pages box type 1,5,9,13,17 and so on, click ok and you done...

           

          G

          • 2. Re: Master Pages
            John Hawkinson Level 5

            As Grant points out, you cannot do this out-of-the-box in a really easy way.

            But there are several workarounds, and they are not too bad.

             

            You can use the Pages (panel) > Apply Master to Pages command referenced above.

            Even better, you can copy-and-paste into that field. So, for instance, you can just generate the sequence of page numbers.

            You could do it pretty easily in Excel, like this, for a sequence of 4 repeating:

             

             

            AB
            11,
            22,
            33,
            44,
            51,5,
            62,6,
            73,7,
            84,8,
            91,5,9,

             

            and you would accomplish that with formulas like this:

             

             

            AB
            =ROW()=A1&","
            =ROW()=A2&","
            =ROW()=A3&","
            =ROW()=A4&","
            =ROW()=B1&A5&","
            =ROW()=B2&A6&","
            =ROW()=B3&A7&","
            =ROW()=B4&A8&","
            =ROW()=B5&A9&","

             

            That is, B1:B4 are the initial values, and then B5 to the end just keeps repeating the same formula that adds the current row to the row 4 above.

             

            It's also trivial with a script, if you're into InDesign scripts. But it's probably easier in Excel if you're not.

             

            I think you can probably also do this with either Auto-Flow Pro or Power Headers from in-tools.com, 3rd party plugins to InDesign.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Master Pages
              Grant H Level 4

              hmmn, yeah... that would help eliminate typo's... (and arithmatic)...

               

              G

              • 4. Re: Master Pages
                John Hawkinson Level 5

                I was more concerned with time -- suppose it is a 300 page document.

                • 5. Re: Master Pages
                  Grant H Level 4

                  well that too... accuracy more important tho...

                  • 6. Re: Master Pages
                    sperry1975 Level 1

                    The AutoFlow Pro sounds like an interesting option that might do the trick.  But until then I'm still wanting to figure out a way to do this with InDesign without having to use a 3rd party plugin.  Your information on how to do something like this in Excel is nice but I don't see how doing this in excel is suppose to help me do it in InDesign.  What I'm after is a string or command I can enter into the "Apply Master Pages" command line's "To Pages:" field.  For instance could I put "=B5&A9&","" into the "To Pages:" line and get something sensable from InDesign?  I just don't want to have to put in "1,5,9,13,17,21, etc." for single pages or  "1,3,5,7, etc." every time for double pages.  That takes time!

                    • 7. Re: Master Pages
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      I bet John could whip up a script that would apply a master page depending on the result of dividing the page number by 4... (hint, hint).

                       

                      This won't update automatically, though, you'd ahve to re-run the script whenever the page count changes or the order is switched, but the other options in the pages panel aren't automatic, either.

                      • 8. Re: Master Pages
                        sperry1975 Level 1

                        That would be perfect.  I wouldn't want one to update automatically because there may be extra pages, at times, in inserted in between the sections of 4 page repeats.

                        What do you mean when you say the other options in the pages panel aren't automatic, either?  To which options, in the pages panel, are you refering to?

                        • 9. Re: Master Pages
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          sperry1975 wrote:

                          To which options, in the pages panel, are you refering to?

                          Typing or pasting lists of numbers in the Apply Master to Pages dialog, or worse, dragging masters to pages, or selecting pages and applying the master.

                          • 10. Re: Master Pages
                            sperry1975 Level 1

                            Oh! That doesn't sound good.

                            • 11. Re: Master Pages
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              Not sure I understand your response here.

                               

                              Up to the point at which I posted, I'm pretty sure the discussion was centered on pasting a list of numbers into the apply master to pages dialog, and how to generate that list. That's something you would need to do manually.

                               

                              A script would be "semi-automatic" in the sense that at the time it is run it would look at the page numbers for all existing pages and assign a master based on those numbers. That master would not change until either the script was run again or you manually applied something else.

                               

                              I don't write scripts, but the logic for this is pretty simple. Divide the page number by 4 and look at the remainder, then apply a different master for each case 0, 1, 2 or 3.

                               

                              That said, you've thrown in a complication by saying that you might insert pages that don't follow your pattern, and that may be enough (depending on how many and how thay are numbered) to completely kill any sort of automation at all.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Master Pages
                                sperry1975 Level 1

                                Ok, so it appears that AutoFlow Pro is my only option if it will work.  I must admit that it's strange that a feature like this is a part of pagemaker but not indesign.  What I mean is that in pagemaker you can set up items on 4 different pages to flow from page to page like we have been discussing and occasionally change one of the pages, but in InDesign it's a rather time consuming and complicated process.  From what I've seen of InDesign thus far it's a very nice program with a diverse number of things one can do, but my boss seems to think that pagemaker can do basic things, such as what we've been discussing, and InDesign can't do all those things.  This problem is just adding fuel to the fire.

                                Thanks for the help thus far.  I think I will try making a suggestion to Adobe that they make a code or something that someone can put in the Apply Master Pages command to apply pages to odds and evens, every other, or every 3rd or 4th, or what ever the case.

                                • 13. Re: Master Pages
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  I don't recall that Pagemaker could rotate master pages this way, either, so maybe we're all misunderstanding what you want to do.

                                  • 14. Re: Master Pages
                                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                                    Sorry for the delay.

                                    our information on how to do something like this in Excel is nice but I don't see how doing this in excel is suppose to help me do it in InDesign.  What I'm after is a string or command I can enter into the "Apply Master Pages" command line's "To Pages:" field.  For instance could I put "=B5&A9&","" into the "To Pages:" line and get something sensable from InDesign?  I just don't want to have to put in "1,5,9,13,17,21, etc." for single pages or  "1,3,5,7, etc." every time for double pages.

                                    No, no, this is important! The idea is you scroll down to the end of the Excel document, copy the page range, and then go over to InDesign, hit Apply Master to Pages, and paste it in. Bam!

                                     

                                    I bet John could whip up a script that would apply a master page depending on the result of dividing the page number by 4... (hint, hint).

                                    Well, yes. I thought about it (see penultimate graf of post 2), but I figured the Excel solution was more hands-on and doesn't require teaching of scripts. You still want it?

                                    I think I will try making a suggestion to Adobe that they make a code or something that someone can put in the Apply Master Pages command to apply pages to odds and evens, every other, or every 3rd or 4th, or what ever the case

                                    I think a better solution would be for a master page to have a Next Master setting that would apply when autoflowing. (And perhaps a "Re-apply 'Next Master' to selected Pages" command).

                                    • 15. Re: Master Pages
                                      sperry1975 Level 1

                                      I honestly don't know PageMaker much at all and don't really care to know it seeing that it's gone nearly 10 years without support.

                                      I'm not really sure how to say what we are wanting other than the way I already have.

                                      OK, how about I brake everything up into single pages and say it this way...

                                      Here's our masters pages: Master A, B, C, D, and <Blank>.  Blank will be for occasional pages that are different.

                                      We need to apply these masters to a 100 page document.  Here's how it would go:

                                      Page     Master

                                      1          <Blank>

                                      2          B

                                      3          C

                                      4          D

                                      5          A

                                      6          B   

                                      7          C

                                      8          D

                                      9          A

                                      10        B

                                      11        C

                                      12        D

                                      13        A

                                      14        B

                                      15        C

                                      16        D

                                      etc.........

                                       

                                      I hope that's a little more clear.  Note the flow A,B,C,D doesn't change sequence when a <Blank> page is introduced it just goes on like A,B, <Blank>, D.  Notice that C is replaced by <Blank>.

                                      • 16. Re: Master Pages
                                        sperry1975 Level 1

                                        John,

                                        I would love to learn how to make this script if that's a possibility.

                                        As for the excel idea that would also solve the problem too, but I've not yet figured out what your saying to do.  And what I do see seems to take a while to input into every line in excel.  I will have to give this some more thought and try figuring it out.

                                        • 17. Re: Master Pages
                                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                                          As for the excel idea that would also solve the problem too, but I've not yet figured out what your saying to do.  And what I do see seems to take a while to input into every line in excel.

                                          What? no no no no no no!

                                           

                                          You only need to input (n+1) lines into Excel, where n is the number of repeating pages. In your case 4.

                                          So punch in the first 4 lines as indicated in my post #2. Then copy the last line down to the next 95 rows (you can go further if you want, and there's no need for precision if you overshoot). Then just scroll down to the end and the last 4 rows will have the comma-seperated lists of all pages in the document.

                                          • 18. Re: Master Pages
                                            mckayk_777 Level 2

                                            One way I thought of to do this would be to create your document and design the master pages, give the document 4 pages and apply the master page required for those four pages, then in your pages pallette select all four pages and drag them to the "Create New Page" this will make your 4 page document to an 8 page document with the master pages applied as required.

                                            So on and so forth till you have the required number of pages. < good for smaller jobs but would prefer the excel version for big books "Nice one John"

                                            Mind you with the method mentioned above it would not take long to get a large book set up, without the need to remember the formula in excel

                                            • 19. Re: Master Pages
                                              sperry1975 Level 1

                                              John,

                                              I've made the excel document and put in the following:

                                              AB
                                              =ROW()=A1&","
                                              =ROW()=A2&","
                                              =ROW()=A3&","
                                              =ROW()=A4&","
                                              =ROW()=B1&A5&","
                                              =ROW()=B2&A6&","
                                              =ROW()=B3&A7&","
                                              =ROW()=B4&A8&","
                                              =ROW()=B5&A9&","

                                               

                                              I've repeated the formula =ROW() from A1:A99

                                              I also tried copying B5 to line 100 but it only gave 1,5, every time.

                                              Apparently I'm missing something here, but I don't know what it is.  The formula =B1&A5&"," on B5 is different than the formula on B6:B9.  So it seems to me that if I was to repeat the formula and changing the numbers (=B#&A#&",") then I would get the numbers I need at the end, but that would take a long while.

                                              • 20. Re: Master Pages
                                                John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                Wow. It was not my intention to make this difficult. Here is an Excel file: 4masters.xls.

                                                 

                                                I'm not really sure what you are doing wrong.

                                                I also tried copying B5 to line 100 but it only gave 1,5, every time.

                                                Did you repeat the formula continuously from B5 to B100? That is, B5, B6, B7...?

                                                 

                                                it seems to me that if I was to repeat the formula and changing the numbers (=B#&A#&",") then I would get the numbers I need at the end, but that would take a long while.

                                                When you copy a formula in Excel, it automatically changes the numbers for you.

                                                Actually, in all spreadsheets since Lotus 1-2-3. Probably even in Visicalc!

                                                 

                                                This is an essential time-saving device with spreadsheets, and incredibly powerful feature. Plan yourself an hour a day to sit down and play with this stuff -- it's incredibly useful in all aspects of life. Spreadsheets are really awesome tools, and they can be applied to finance, to design, to project management, to shopping lists, to data visualization and analysis, and fixing your car.

                                                • 21. Re: Master Pages
                                                  sperry1975 Level 1

                                                  Thanks for the file.  I would like to send you a file to so you can see what I've done.  It almost identical to yours as far as B1:B5 goes, but for some reason when I put the formula for B5 into B6 it spits back the same thing that was in B5 (1,5,).  I would really like to know why I keep getting this non-sense, but everyone else on this post seems to know exactly how this works and can probably do it themselves easily.

                                                  At this time I can't send the file because my file size is apparently to big.  One more item I can't figure, the file size is 10k and that's to big for this forum ?!?!  Strange, just another odity.

                                                  • 22. Re: Master Pages
                                                    John Hawkinson Level 5
                                                    Thanks for the file.  I would like to send you a file to so you can see what I've done.  It almost identical to yours as far as B1:B5 goes, but for some reason when I put the formula for B5 into B6 it spits back the same thing that was in B5 (1,5,).

                                                    You don't "put the formula for B5 into B6."

                                                     

                                                    You copy entire cells (or rows!), not their contents.

                                                    The way to build this spreadsheet is to enter the data for A1 and B1.

                                                    Then select cells A1 and B1, and do EITHER of the following:

                                                    i) Grab the square that appears at the lower-right corner of B1 down to B4.

                                                    ii) Hit Edit > Copy. Then select cells A2 through A4. Hit Edit->Paste.

                                                     

                                                    That's the first 4 cells, which are different from the rest.

                                                    Next, fill in A5 and B5. Then, again, copy A5 and B5 down into A6/B6 though A100/B100, using either of the above two methods.

                                                    The cell references in the formulas will automatically offset themselves and the sheet will be what you want.

                                                     

                                                    Sounds like you should go pick up an Excel tutorial. Probably Microsoft has a Getting Started with Formulas -type document you would benefit from.

                                                     

                                                    Hope this helps!

                                                     

                                                    At this time I can't send the file because my file size is apparently to big.  One more item I can't figure, the file size is 10k and that's to big for this forum ?!?!  Strange, just another odity.

                                                     

                                                    File attachments are disabled on the forum, allegedly for security reasons. You can post a link to an external site (which is what I did).

                                                    You could also email the file to me, but it sounds like the problem is described above.

                                                    • 23. Re: Master Pages
                                                      sperry1975 Level 1

                                                      OK, Great!  Now I understand what you were saying.  The poblem is I was copying 1 cell not two.  Instead of copying cells A5:B5 then pasting it into the next line I was copying just B5 and pasing it into the next line (B6).  I had of course already copied A1's formula all the way to cell 99, but that didn't matter.  I don't know why copying two cells or draging from the bottom right corner makes so much difference, but as long as it works that's fine with me.  Thanks for the info.  This will work as a temporary fix for what I'm wanting to do in InDesign.

                                                      • 24. Re: Master Pages
                                                        TᴀW Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Well, the following should work, but I haven't tested it. Just substitute W, X, Y, and Z for the actual names of the master spreads you'd like. It should be obvious to everyone how to alter the script to get it to work with more or less than four master spreads.

                                                         

                                                        If the document isn't a multiple of the number of masters, the last few pages will be ignore, I think.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        myDoc = app.activeDocument;

                                                        myMasters = myDoc.masterSpreads;

                                                        MasterA = myMasters.itemByName("W");

                                                        MasterB = myMasters.itemByName("X");

                                                        MasterC = myMasters.itemByName("Y");

                                                        MasterD = myMasters.itemByName("Z");

                                                        myPages = myDoc.pages;

                                                        for (a=0; a<myPages.length; a+=4){

                                                        myPages[a].appliedMaster = MasterA;

                                                        myPages[a+1].appliedMaster = MasterB;

                                                        myPages[a+2].appliedMaster = MasterC;

                                                        myPages[a+3].appliedMaster = MasterD;

                                                        }

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Thanks,

                                                        Ariel

                                                        http://www.freelancebookdesign.com/?page_id=201