11 Replies Latest reply on Aug 23, 2011 12:08 PM by Alan Craven-Y3Asuo

    Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...

    BenFreedman

      Howdy, all...

       

      So, I just finished watching this video piece that was emailed to me by Adobe:

       

      http://tv.adobe.com/watch/cs-55-production-premium-feature-tour-/premiere-pros-64bit-editi ng-and-grading-power-

       

      In this video, they show a laptop displaying 10 HD tracks of footage, in mixed formats, with multiple color corrections and keys, all playing back in realtime (although reduced resolution), and this on a non-GPU accelerated computer.

       

      However, reading the messages on this forum, it would seem that ANY HD editing (even custs and dissolves) is beyond the reach of all but the most expensive desktop-replacement 10lb behemoths.

       

      I'm just wondering where on the continuum of reality PPRo CS5.5 actually falls. Does anyone have experience using PPro on a reasonably priced (ie. $1500) laptop with an external USB3 drive, or the like? Is 2-3 tracks of basic HD editing doable?

       

      Most importantly....is Adobe kidding us with the performance in this video? Is it tweaked to death just for their roadshow, or pure hype?

       

      Love to hear all opinions...

       

      Best,

       

      Ben

       

        • 1. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
          BenFreedman Level 1

          By the way...upon further viewing, it appears this video was made on a MAC, so it wasn't even some uber-$6K laptop, but rather just a top of the line Mac. From reading here, it seems that Mac performance is lower than PC for PPRo, so again I'm wondering if standard 2-3 track HD editing should be easy on an 'average' PC laptop...

           

          Best,

           

          Ben

           

          • 2. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            The question then becomes: What codec is used for HD? What flavor of HD?

             

            HDV, XDCAM, AVCHD, P2, RED or whatever, in what resolution, 720, 1080, 2K, 3K, 4K and what framerate?

             

            Please define your question more accurately, in order for us to answer.

             

            A $ 6K+ laptop can only  be a MAC. On the PC side it would more likely be $ 4K+ for a fully loaded laptop.

             

            Laptops are always a compromise. Price/performance/luggability/screen size, etc.

             

            If you look at the PPBM5 Benchmark you will see that the best laptop ($ 4K+) comes out at rank # 162, and is more than 3 times slower than a fast desktop, that carries a significantly lower price. FYI, all MPB's are below minimum requirements for PR CS5.

            • 3. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
              BenFreedman Level 1

              Right.... So if you can do 10 tracks of HD plus color correction and keying in realtime on a 4K latop, is it reasonable to assume that you can do 2-3 tracks of HD editing (AVCHD, H.264, etc...) with no effects in realtime on a $1.5K laptop?

               

              This is not me asking a specific question and looking for a specific answer. More like I'd like opinions on using PremPro on a mobile platform to edit 2-3 tracks of HD in realtime. Not as a replacement to a desktop, but as a 'get started' system for editing on the road.

               

              Can this be done on an average, modern $1.5K laptop?

               

              I know rendering won't be as fast, so I'm not worried about the PPBM score. I doubt anyone would say 'hey! I have a desktop right here, but I'm going to render on my laptop'... Again, this is a real world situation, where you're on the road and want to start to do some basic editing from your dSLR or AVCHD footage.

               

              Thoughts?

               

              Ben

              • 4. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                BenFreedman Level 1

                "FYI, all MPB's are below minimum requirements for PR CS5."

                 

                Odd that the Adobe rep is using one in this video then, don't you think?

                 

                B.

                • 5. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                  Alan Craven-Y3Asuo Level 1

                  The ratio of the speed of "system x" to the fastest system on the PPBM5 benchmark is NOT a measure of whether it is possible to edit video using Premiere Pro CS5.5 using that system.  It is exactly what it says it is, no more and no less.

                   

                  A particular editing procedure will certainly take longer, but it is not necessarily impossible simply because of the system's lower ranking on the PPBM5 hit parade!

                   

                  The top speed of my wife's Suzuki is roughly half that of my BMW.  That does not mean that she cannot travel from A to B, whereas I can.  It does not mean that she would tke twice as long, either.  The story of the tortoise versus the hare has a long history.

                   

                  What is more, it is almost certain that a different benchmark procedure would lead to a different rank order of the tested systems.

                   

                  I agree that a laptop offers a poorer editing experience for a given expenditure than a desktop; but that does not disqualify the laptop as an editing system.

                  • 6. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                    Zoop studio Level 1

                    Maybe it's more like a bicylce against an BMW instead a Suzuki.

                    (not only the speed but also the payload)

                    • 7. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                      some benchies for laptop vs desktop..

                      while not exactly addressing the question is does bear some fruit and a little perspective.

                       

                      ADK 8600 Laptop: about whats probably in that Apple laptop..however at $6k its probably a 2920 processor.

                      Premiere Pro CS5 Version 5.0.3 Testing

                      OS drive and 1 single media/export drive 2 total

                      Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material

                      Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default

                      4 Effects per Layer - Fast Color Corrector, Brightness & Contrast, Video Limiter, Sharpen

                      Each Layer Scaled to 50% for 4 frame PinP view.

                       

                      I7 2820QM 2.3GHZ  (turbo to 3.4GHz)

                      16GB 1333 CL 9

                      GTX 460M

                      3 Layer – 54:11

                      4 Layer – 1:01:53

                      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                      desktop

                      I7 2600K 3.4GHZ Turbo to 4.7GHz

                      16GB Blackline 1600 CL 9

                      470GTX

                      3 Layer - 31:35

                      4 Layer - 34:35

                      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                      done with CS5 need to update to 5.5..

                       

                       

                      ADK 9000 Laptop

                      980X at 3.33GHz

                      12GB DDR3 1333 CL9

                      1  Hitachi 500GB OS Drive

                      2 500GB Seagate 16 Meg Cache 7200 2.5 drives

                      Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material

                      Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default

                      285M GTX 1GB video card

                      3 Layer - 70:42

                      4 Layer - 80:43

                       

                      Scott

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                        BenFreedman Level 1

                        Those are some great specs, but as I mentioned, I don't think render speed is the best way to judge a mobile platform. No one wants to render on the the thing, the real question is...is it useable (subjective) as a basic HD editing platform...

                         

                        Here's the benchmarks I'd like to see, although again, they are subjective...

                         

                        1 HD track on the timeline... Resolution set to 1/4. cuts and disolves only. Is playback acceptable for editing.

                        2 HD tracks....same as above. Is playback acceptable for editing

                        3 HD tracks.... same as above

                        4 HD tracks.... ditto...

                         

                        Additionally, we'd need to know what sort of HD is being edited... although there are more, there are 3 basic categories: 1) AVCHD 2) dSLR H.264 3) Something better for editing (XDCAM, ProRes, Cineform, etc...)

                         

                        I realize that 'acceptable for editing' is a completely subjective opinion, but that's where this forum comes in. You guys are editors, some professional, some prosumer, some hobbiest. I'd value what YOU think is acceptable for YOUR editing on each of the 4 scenarios above.

                         

                        Don't really care about render speed, as a mobile platform is far from idea for finishing. But basic editing can get 50-80% of your work done on the road. Maybe this can be done on a $1200 i5? or maybe just #1 and 2 above. Or maybe a $1600 i7 will get you to #3 or #4.

                         

                        Love to hear your results, if you use a mobile platform.

                         

                        Best,

                         

                        Ben

                         

                        • 9. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                          Alan Craven-Y3Asuo Level 1

                          The problem with this kind of query is that it invariably elicits responses based on ranking in PPBM5.  According to these people it is impossible to edit on my Sony Vaio because it would rank way down the bottom of the charts.

                           

                          This is not the case because I only use it when away from home to achieve rough cuts to see what I have recorded and select what I want to use.  Unfortunately, my experience is not relevant to your query as I work with HDV. For what it is worth my laptop has a 1.83GHz i7, with 8 GBG RAM and a single 500GB 7200 rpm Seagate Momentus.  The graphics is  425QM with 1 GB of memory, so I am able to use MPE.  I can capture to, and edit with, this single partitioned drive, but I normally use an external eSATA drive.

                           

                          I do not have to make compromises - playback resolution is set to full, and playback is smooth with basic cuts, dissolves and fades to black.  I only ever use a single video track though.

                           

                          This laptop is available in the UK for around £800.

                           

                          I was also able to edit successfully with HDV using its predecessor - this had a 1.83 Core 2 duo, but did have 2 internal drives, but only 2 GB of RAM.

                          • 10. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                            Islanders66 Level 1

                            You and Ben are raising some good points about how useful a lap top is when editing.

                             

                            As far as the PPBM benchmarks it is a useful tool to help indentify how each aspect is performing, trouble shoot, or evaluate how an upgrade might effect performance. I would consider it a more accurate approach when evaluating a compter's performance than the marketing hype and unrealisic expectations that the this thread topic raised.

                             

                            Of coruse I might be a little biased because my machine had decent performance.

                            • 11. Re: Adobe marketing videos? Hype vs. reality? Please weigh in...
                              Alan Craven-Y3Asuo Level 1

                              Against my better judgement I have downloaded the PPBM5 benchmark and tried it out on my laptop.  I am using CS5.03.

                               

                              The time line plays quite jerkily at full resolution, but perfectly smoothly at half resolution - this was before rendering.

                               

                              I will run the full test later and report back on the results.

                               

                              Incidentally this timeline does not play an awful lot smoother at full resolution on my Q9650 3.0GHz desktop with 8 GB RAM and a GTX 460 graphics card.

                               

                              Results of PPBM CS5:

                               

                              AME took 549 seconds to export the three files.

                               

                              The output.txt results with MPE were 173, 193,178,73;  without MPE the last figure was 198.

                               

                              I have no idea, nor have I any interest, in where that would place my laptop in the hit parade, but I think it shows clearly that HD editing is possible on a basic laptop such as this.  It also suggests that we are perhaps rather closer to the reality end of the spectrum than the hype end.

                               

                              Message was edited by: Alan Craven - added test results