11 Replies Latest reply on Aug 26, 2011 1:06 PM by Peter Spier

    Auto-indents within poetry verses.

    graphicsant

      I'm typesetting some poetry in columns. Each verse within each poem is formatted as a paragraph. My column and text frame sizes are fixed, as are font choice and point size. Some lines of prose extend beyond the width of the text frame so they naturally wrap onto the following line - this is illustrated in the attached image where the words "do?" and "flue." have broken onto the next line. My question is, can the wrapped words (i.e. "do?" and "flue." in this case) be automatically assigned a hanging indent based on the fact that they occupy 2 lines before the next forced line break occurs? If so, how can this be acheived?

       

      Sorry if I'm missing something basic.

      Picture 1.png

       

      Ant

        • 1. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          If I understand you correctly, you want to set a left indent for the entire paragraph, then a negative first line indent. Do this as part of the paragraph style.

          • 2. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
            graphicsant Level 1

            Hi Peter,

             

            Thanks for the quick reply. Actually, I want only to indent those words that naturally break onto a new line because the line they should occupy is longer than the text frame width allows. In the case of the example, "do?" and "flue." are the only words that I would wish to see indented automatically. This would be to highlight to the reader that the word belongs with the line above it.

             

            Ant

            • 3. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
              Gernot Hoffmann Level 3

              Ant,

               

              if your columns are mostly too narrow, then you should modify the design.

              If a few lines are too wide, then you may transfer some words to the next

              line manually, like here:

              http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/diamond-09082011.pdf

               

              But shifting few-letter-words automatically into the next line is probably

              not a good idea, IMHO.

               

              Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

              • 4. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                If you use hard returns and make each "line" a paragraph, instead of using forced line breaks, that's exacly what is going to happen.

                • 5. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                  graphicsant Level 1

                  Gernot,

                   

                  Thanks for your reply. I'd like to modify the column widths but my client disagrees so I'm constrained to the column widths I have. To put it into context I have about 300 poems each having an average of about 4 verses. About a third of the poems have the line length problem occuring once or twice a verse, so thats about 800 occurences throughout the document. I don't really want to have to do it manually for that reason.

                   

                  Just for clarity, here is an edited mock-up of what I would like to happen automatically:

                   

                  Regards,

                  Ant

                  Picture 1.png

                  • 6. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                    Dog of War Level 1

                    What Peter said. Change the soft returns to hard returns and then use the paragraph style to set a left indent (however much you want the turnover line to indent) and then set the first line to a negative indent of the same length as the left indent.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                      graphicsant Level 1

                      Great!

                       

                      Thanks for taking the time to help a learner - much appreciated.

                       

                      Regards,

                       

                      Ant

                      • 8. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                        Gernot Hoffmann Level 3

                        Ant,

                         

                        your example shows IMHO a not convincing typesetting.

                        The verses have their rhythm, which shouldn't be interrupted

                        by applications of formal row length directives, cropping

                        the structure without poetic necessity.

                        Here comes an example with violations of row lengths

                        on purpose:

                        http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/poe221299.pdf

                         

                        Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

                        • 9. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                          graphicsant Level 1

                          Peter,

                           

                          I spoke too soon.

                           

                          I remember now why I had formatted individual verses as paragraphs with soft returns within them; I need all the lines in each verse to stay together - changing each line to a paragraph messes with the keep settings, i.e. verses split in half.

                           

                          Any ideas?

                           

                          Ant

                          • 10. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                            WatermelonJuice Level 1

                            Dear Ant~

                             

                            I have the same thing happening in a 450 page book with loads of prose in italic, indented, and when the line is too long and wraps, I push a second word to the next line not only to make the page look good, but most importantly, to make it more readable.

                             

                            It is considered bad/poor design to have one word only on your second line, especaially if it is a word with few letters.

                             

                            Have you tried setting your Paragraph Style with -5 or -10 Optical kerning? That might take care of these small words in one fell swoop You might even try a -2 and -3 and so on until they all just magically disappear throughout the entire book!

                             

                            Suzan

                            Who loves watermelon juice and nice typography

                            • 11. Re: Auto-indents within poetry verses.
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              graphicsant wrote

                               

                              Any ideas?

                               

                              Ant

                              Sure. Do you have the same number of lines in each verse, or does it vary? If it's the same number, it's very simple. You set up "rotating styles" based on the style for the first line. In each style the only thing you change is Keep options (if you need to) and "next style."

                               

                              In you r example there are 5 lines, so you need 5 styles. For the first line, set the next style to the style for line two, for that one set next to line 3, and so forth up to line 5, which gets Line 1 as the next style and loses the Keep with next option. Highlight the entire text, right click the style for line 1, choose apply Line 1 stylename and next style, and the whole block will cascade.