6 Replies Latest reply on Aug 30, 2011 7:58 AM by Jim_Simon

    Musings on the future of Pr on Mac

    Jim Curtis Level 3

      I inherited a documentary style project last week on FCP7.   One of my first thoughts was whether to move it right over to Pr.  I decided not to.  Pr is still inferior to FCP7 for basic off-lining.  This is because of a few features.

       

      Number one: Dupe Detection.  FCP has it; Pr doesn't.  I don't see how anybody can cut a long format documentary and not have dupe detection.  It's been in MC and FCP from the very early stages, but still MIA from FCP.  Not good.

       

      Also, the way that FCP7 has Cmd-X, Cmd-V, Shift-X and Shift-V makes moving clips around the timeline extremely fast.  The fact that you can't copy a range in a clip in Pr without splitting it at the in and out points first is a major slowdown.

       

      Just last week, I bought and installed a Quadro 4000, specifically to take advantage of CUDA in Pr.  That should show my commitment to Pr as my editing platform.  I just hope that Adobe is planning on showing the same commitment to us.  If Pr 8 doesn't rock our world with a plethora of new features that bring it up to parity - never mind superiority - just parity with MC5 and FCP7, I will be sorely disappointed.

       

      What would bring it close to parity would be (IMO):

       

      Media Management that included a Reduce Project and Remove Unused Items feature like in AE.

      Mark Clip in blank areas.

      Copy a range and paste elsewhere.

      More intelligent auto-saving that doesn't interrupt work.

      Track-based audio presets.

      DUPE DETECTION.

      Match Frame indicators.

      Searchable Timeline.

      Clip Markers that hold text and can be edited in the timeline, and are searchable.

      Modify Audio Levels tool as in FCP.

       

      I would love it if Pr8 knocked a home run out of the ball park.  But, considering the glacial evolution of Premiere up to this point - that it took Adobe to get it to 5.5 to have a competitive NLE application, I won't hold my breath.

       

      But, I do love Pr 5.5.  It gives me hope.  But, I'm spoiled.  I want more.  And sooner rather than later. 

       

      I have yet to experience what wonders the Quadro 4000 brings.

       

      Epilog:  I will move this project I inherited to Pr as soon as I have the base cut approved.  Pr is far superior to FCP in the handling of stills, and I'll have a lot of them to add when the time comes.

        • 1. Re: Musings on the future of Pr on Mac
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          What is "Pr 8"? Logic would suggest the next version would be Premiere Pro CS6; as far as I'm aware, Premiere Pro is the only Adove DVA application whose version number follows the suite version.

           

          Anyway, musings are fine, but feature requests are better: Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form. Just hopin' and promising to be disappointed are not effective motivational tools.

           

          That said, I agree on most of your points. Let's address a few:

          Media Management that included a Reduce Project and Remove Unused Items feature like in AE.

          Media management could be better, but there is a Remove Unused command under the Project menu.

          Mark Clip in blank areas.

          This is available if you select the empty track segment and hit the '/' (forward slash) key. The Mark Clip function (Shift+/) doesn't function on empty track segments; that would be a good feature request.

          Copy a range and paste elsewhere.

          More intelligent auto-saving that doesn't interrupt work.

          I agree.

          Track-based audio presets.

          There are presets now, available in the Audio Mixer, but they are limited, can't be customized and saved, and can't be copied and pasted. So, yes--request it.

          DUPE DETECTION.

          Match Frame indicators.

          Dupe detection would be great, but I don't care so much for match frame indicators (I assume you're referring to an indicator showing where a clip is split). That's just high-frequency noise in the sequence display, IMO.

          Searchable Timeline.

          Clip Markers that hold text and can be edited in the timeline, and are searchable.

          Not that I disagree on the first, but what are you wanting to search for in the Timeline panel/sequence? Enhancements to clip markers (and in general, all markers) are a definite YES--I've requested that many times.

          Modify Audio Levels tool as in FCP.

          Can you explain what this is? I'm sure something like this exists in PPro, but I'm not exactly sure what sort of functionality you're missing.

           

          Anyway, my point is that talk is cheap; feature requests get things done.

          • 2. Re: Musings on the future of Pr on Mac
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Number one: Dupe Detection.  FCP has it; Pr doesn't.  I don't see how anybody can cut a long format documentary and not have dupe detection.

             

            What exactly is that?  I mean, there already is a way to know how often (and where) a clip is used.

            • 3. Re: Musings on the future of Pr on Mac
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              Clips (or frames from particular clip) that are used multiple times in a single sequence are marked with some sort of indicator in the sequence, to give you a quick heads-up that you may want to check that you're not accidentally using the same clip two or more times. Pretty common problem on longer projects like docs, and dupe detection is an easy way to save you from looking like a dork. It should be a toggled indicator, in implementation. The method of finding clips from the Project panel is not the same, nor anywhere near as convenient. You'd have to individually select every clip in your project to check if it's used more than once in a sequence; the Video Usage column is not helpful either, as you're likely to have multiple versions of an edit in a single project.

              • 4. Re: Musings on the future of Pr on Mac
                Jim Curtis Level 3

                Yes, all my feature requests are going to the proper channels, as is my expanding list of bugs to report.

                 

                Of course, my Pr8 was a typo.  I meant 6.  But, Pr8 should really be awesome, if I'm not retired by then.

                 

                Thanks for the info about marking a blank area and Remove Unused, Colin.  I wasn't aware.

                 

                The Match Frame indicator visibility could be a toggle as well, if they seem to be a bother to some people.  I like Adding Edits in my timeline to indicate a point where I might come back later and remove material.  A text-filled clip marker could do the same thing.  But, either or both would be a great enhancement.  And until Adobe implements a Range Copy function, adding edits and thereby creating match frames is the only way to copy a range.  And that really trashes up a timeline as well - to have a bunch of unnecessary cuts all over the place.

                 

                In MC, you can search the Timline for Locators, Locater Text, Clip Names, etc.  It's a nice feature, and I'd like to see it in Pr.  FCP7 has some pretty spiffy abilities to Find things in the Timeline as well.  It will find non-contiguous shots of say, all instances of a certain clip name, to which you can Paste Attributes or drop Filter Presets on all in one swoop.   Very handy.

                 

                The Modify Levels (audio) command is similar in Pr to the one in FCP.  In Pr, using the tool is similar to adding a Gain effect, whereas in FCP, it changes the rubberband, or automation level.  The end result is more or less the same.  Maybe I just need to get used to the Pr method, and backpedal on this one.  I do like how Pr redraws the audio waveform after using the Modify Levels command.  FCP doesn't do that.  Pr also allows you more than 12db of Gain, which is nice to have when you need it.  You can get more gain in FCP by adding the Gain effect.

                 

                 

                I thought of a few more features I'd like to see added:

                 

                A Scrub Audio shortcut toggle - NOT a user pref.

                 

                Highlight Marked Region - needs more contrast, emphasis, clarity.  It would be nice to see at a glance a the timeline what tracks are active as well.  Look at the way it's done in FCP and MC.

                 

                Better, faster way to delete tracks, like in MC or FCP.

                 

                Ability to map multiple Keyboard Shortcuts to the same function (a la Avid: E & R keys, same as I and O)

                 

                Heal Match Frame command.

                 

                And again, these will be, or have already been submitted as feature requests to Adobe.  It would help if everybody who agrees would suggest the same features, as the way I understand it, the most requested features go to the top of the priority list.

                • 5. Re: Musings on the future of Pr on Mac
                  wonderspark Level 1

                  Jim Curtis wrote:

                   

                  ...Just last week, I bought and installed a Quadro 4000, specifically to take advantage of CUDA in Pr.  That should show my commitment to Pr as my editing platform.  I just hope that Adobe is planning on showing the same commitment to us.  If Pr 8 doesn't rock our world with a plethora of new features that bring it up to parity - never mind superiority - just parity with MC5 and FCP7, I will be sorely disappointed...

                   

                  ...I would love it if Pr8 knocked a home run out of the ball park.  But, considering the glacial evolution of Premiere up to this point - that it took Adobe to get it to 5.5 to have a competitive NLE application, I won't hold my breath.

                  But, I do love Pr 5.5.  It gives me hope.  But, I'm spoiled.  I want more.  And sooner rather than later. 

                  It's all a matter of preferences, isn't it? I've been using Pr off and mostly on since 4.2. (That was a long time ago.) I've used Media100, Avid, and Final Cut, and they all worked great for me. (I take that back... Final Cut Pro X has been nothing but frustration... FCP7 was very simple to learn. What happened there, Apple?) Each one has a unique set of tools, but they all work great once you get to know them.

                   

                  I disagree that the evolution of Premiere has been glacial. CS5 is a flash flood of progress. I love that it uses as many cores and as much RAM as I have in the machine, and plays everything I throw at it natively. I think Adobe has shown more commitment to editors than Final Cut, honestly. What I WILL say is that I'm bummed that ATI cards don't get the acceleration that nVidia cards get, because the GPU choices are so limited for Mac. Adobe chose to work with nVidia in regards to hardware acceleration, but maybe CS6 will let ATI card users play along, too. Fortunately, it doesn't slow me down that much. Most of my work is done in After Effects, so Premiere doesn't do as much of the heavy lifting anyway, and my 5870 gets the job done brilliantly. I have a GTX 285 for when I want to take advantage of MPE, but so far, it really hasn't help me.

                   

                  Whatever tool you choose to edit with, you'll favor until it becomes obsolete or replaced by something better. In my world, there's nothing better than CS5 Pr, Ae, Ai, Ps, Au/Sb and En. I wish Audition for Mac was as good as Audition 3.0 for PC... but it will get there soon. For now, I've made Soundbooth work out. I'd bet that it won't be long before you prefer Adobe's suite over whatever Final Cut turns out to be, too. You never know... someone else might come along and blow all our minds with something better than everything out there today... but my money is on Adobe for now.

                   

                  (Not paid by Adobe, haha)

                  • 6. Re: Musings on the future of Pr on Mac
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    maybe CS6 will let ATI card users play along, too.

                     

                    Here, here!