22 Replies Latest reply on Oct 19, 2011 9:44 AM by CME101

    Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links

    Charles Whalley

      Runing Mac OS10.68 with CS5 (fully up to date). Working on a large 800+ page catalogue - which via indesign has all the links added for 'see page' etc etc and index links for subsections.

       

      Come to write the enitire book to Pdf and on whatever Mac - 3 years old with 6gb ram iMac, 9 month old 3.33Ghx 6 core with 16gb ram Mac Pro the pdf writing process quits on page 669.

       

      That leaves me with one option - write the book in two sections and then edit the links in Acrobat for those links that have broken trying to link fro the first section to the second and vice versa - hardly ideal or clean.

       

      Interestingly page 669 pdf's without any such problem when the book is split into two.

       

      My conclusion is that this is a software issue as new and old and more and less power/ram seem to make no difference (apart from speed of getting to the quit on page 669.

       

      Any thoughts welcome

        • 1. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
          John Hawkinson Level 5
          Runing Mac OS10.68 with CS5 (fully up to date).

          Please by specific -- is this 7.0.4?

           

          Have you tried exporting to IDML?

           

          What if you make a copy an delete pp. 668-671? Does the rest of the document work?

          • 2. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
            Charles Whalley Level 1

            John - thanks

             

            The book I refer to is made up as 70+ documents. I dont think I can export the book to IDML. I did try to export the book for print to a local computer - rather than producing a pdf over the network - but with the same page briniging InDesign to a crashing halt. Plus all the links were gone! (I guess because it is packaged for PRINT.

             

            7.04 is the correct version.

             

            I have not tried deleting the pages you suggested as I assumed that the fact that the page mentioned pdf's without any problems when exporting to pdf the second part of the book - then this page cannot be the problem?

             

            Let me know your thoughts.

            • 3. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
              John Hawkinson Level 5

              You cannot export the entire book to IDML, but you can export the

              document containing pp. 668-671. But before doing that, I would suggest

              you try omitting that file from the book and see if the overall export works.

               

              Chances are there is one file that is causing the problem.

               

              I would not assume the page that drops out cannot be the problem given

              your statements, no.

              • 4. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                Charles Whalley Level 1

                John

                 

                Take the book out and it does indeed pdf the whole job - any thoughts on what maybe wrong - is it specific to page 669 or possibly just that document within the book?

                • 5. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  This type of problem, where a large PDF stalls or fails partway through, but can be done successfully in chunks, seems to often be connected to system resources, or lack thereof. I'm not sure what, exactly, you run out of, but it's probably either related to RAM or swap space.

                  • 6. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                    Charles Whalley Level 1

                    John

                     

                    Looks like you were spot on - either a font issue on that documnet or a corrupt pdf file on 669 - many thanks alll sorted on my 3 year old iMac!!

                    • 7. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                      John Hawkinson Level 5

                      Charles: Great! I'm glad it worked for you.

                      It's certainly frustrating when this happens...I don't suppose you have a clear test case that can be submitted to Adobe? This seems like the sort of bug that will never get fixed if no one reports it...

                       

                      Peter says:

                      This type of problem, where a large PDF stalls or fails partway through, but can be done successfully in chunks, seems to often be connected to system resources, or lack thereof. I'm not sure what, exactly, you run out of, but it's probably either related to RAM or swap space.

                      Unto that, I say, "Hrmm!"

                      I say that for several reasons:

                      . I guess I'm lucky enough that I pretty much never try to run InDesign jobs that are bigger than the resources I have available, so I have basically never seem this behavior.

                      . If this failure is related to a resource limitation issue, then of course it should not be happening. InDesign should be detecting this failure case and accurately reporting it back to the user. Much much better to produce no PDF file with "Resource allocation error producing PDF file" than it is to produce a PDF file that might (or might not) be mysteriously missing a few pages.  So there's defiitely some sort of bug, possibly quite serious, here.

                      . Running out of RAM should not be able to cause this sort of thing... it is hard to run out of RAM. I mean, every process is allowed to allocate a lot of virtual memory (how much "a lot" is depends, but let's pretend its around 2GB), and if you allocate more memory than is avaialble, then some of your memory gets swapped out to disk. And if it turns out the program is written to expect all that stuff in RAM at once, such that it accesses pieces of it repeatedly, you can get a situation where the program needs a piece of memory that is swapped out, so it gets swapped in but another piece gets swapped out, and then it needs the piece that just got swapped out, and so-on and so-forth. But what this does is it slows your program to a crawl and churns the disk repeatedly and maybe gives the semblance of hanging hard. But it doesn't cause operations to complete in normal time in a broken way.

                      . Running out of virtual memory. This could, I guess, cause this. That is, the program tries to allocate some VM for a data structure and the OS says, "bzzt! Sorry! You're using too much." and if so, well, then, ID may not be properly handling this failure condition and it could lead to this.

                      . Running out of swap. So this happens when the VM used by all processes grows beyond the available swap space on disk. This should lead to an error from the operating system displayed to the user... It's been a long time since I've seen this, so I'm not sure what form it takes, but I'm not even sure there is an error condition that InDesign would perceive...

                       

                      So, for those reasons, I think I'm reluctant to conclude that these problems are system resource problems rather than just plain bugs. Or maybe system resource problems along with bugs.

                      • 8. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        I can only report what users have said here. We see a fair number of cases where documents fail to export as one piece, but work fine when split in half.

                         

                        I'm actually quite surprised that if there was a font issue or actual corruption of some sort on a page that splitting the doc (as reported in the original post, I thought) would actually be successful. I would have thought that something "wrong" with the file would remain wrong and fial to export no matter what else was there.

                        • 9. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                          Charles Whalley Level 1

                          John

                           

                          I am not sure that is a bug as such but could be to do with 1 or two things - the font courier  (only used in this section - so changed to dingbats) or a pdf supplied by our client - on page 669 and when opened in illustrator it gave some very concerning message about not being able to display it proper;y - it did have some chines language in it - that i removed - grey scaled it and then saved it.

                           

                          Problem now gone!

                           

                          thanks

                          • 10. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                            Charles Whalley Level 1

                            That was my thought as well - but having made those changes - this worked first time....

                            • 11. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                              John Hawkinson Level 5

                              Charles: Please suppress your email signature on email replies -- otherwise your personal contact info is posted for all the world. You should be able to still edit your last two posts if no one has directly replied to them.

                              I am not sure that is a bug as such but could be to do with 1 or two things - the font courier  (only used in this section - so changed to dingbats) or a pdf supplied by our client - on page 669 and when opened in illustrator it gave some very concerning message about not being able to display it proper;y - it did have some chines language in it - that i removed - grey scaled it and then saved it.

                              Make no mistake, this is a bug! Stopping in the middle of a PDF is bug, no bones about it.

                              A corrupt PDF or a corrupt font should generate an error message from InDesign. No error or warning but an incomplete product is a bug. And a serious one at that! Imagine if you had somehow not noticed?

                               

                              Peter:

                              I'm actually quite surprised that if there was a font issue or actual corruption of some sort on a page that splitting the doc (as reported in the original post, I thought) would actually be successful. I would have thought that something "wrong" with the file would remain wrong and fial to export no matter what else was there.

                              Yeah, I'm not sure if I can give you a good story for why my intuition lead me in that direction. Sometimes corruption in one area leads to problems in another. And since there are index links and soforth, I can also imagine cases where a newly instantiated index entry might point to something that generated unhappiness and made the PDF export stop. *Insert big handwaves here*.

                              • 12. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                Charles, please remove your auto-signature and contact info when replying by email.

                                 

                                If you made modifications to to fonts and or a PDF (and Illustrator is NOT a general purpose PDF editor, by the way, which might explain the error), the you were no longer working with the same file. My guess would be there probably was a problem in the previously mentioned PDF with Chinese font. A quick check would be to open a copy of the original file, remove that one object, and try the export again.

                                • 13. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                  CME101 Level 1

                                  I am the Technical Writer for my company and produce product manuals. These manuals contain lots of styles, of all typs; images; tables; links to headers, pages, figures, tables, files on our website, etc... (you get the picture). I put a lot of effort to apply layout and styling to do much of the work for me. The final document is a PDF posted on our web page.

                                   

                                  Unlike marketing fliers and catalogs, I product the documents as one file with a songle thread. This seems to be the only way auto figure, table, step, etc... numbering can be applied to get the numbers to be in proper sequence. I have found that any numbered captions will not properly sequence among multiple threaded sections. Many of my links are created using the Cross-References (A feature I used a lot when writing in Microsoft Word). I found that any document slows down considerably when I cross-reference, externally, between documents. My computer is not a slug, either.

                                   

                                  NOW, for the third or forth time, I have to figure why InDesign is crashing when I add text. Each time it seems to be related to a glitch among one or more paragraphs. The last time I was able to isolate the problem, as I discovered after lots of wasted hours, by copying text and noticing ID crashed while doing so. Each time I would copy a section, crash (not responding), open file and repete till I narrowed it down to the the text containing the glitch. I then deleted and retyped the text.

                                   

                                  This time, the problem is some where in a table. Adding a line, text or even resizing the text frame would through ID into the "Not Responding" state (Windows term for the MACies). I am hoping rebuilding the table will solve the problem.

                                   

                                  This has happened with more than one document (one with 50+ pages, current one with 24 pages), and I am beginning to wonder if InDesign, which I love to use, is the right application for my purpose as a writer. My needs and layout style is different than that of a graphic artist, for which InDesign seems to favor.

                                   

                                  Seems we may be having similar issues.

                                  • 14. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                    Charles Whalley Level 1

                                    Mine was I think down to a pdf that was supplied from the far east and the typeface (chinese lettering) I am pretty sure was at fault - so eventually having identified this I resolved the issue. I hav eto say I hav ebeen impressed with the satbility of Indesign over my 800 + pages.

                                     

                                    Is your catalogue broken down into individual documents for ach chapter and then 'booked'

                                     

                                    If not I would recommend that in the future - ultimately you work with a series of documents so identifying any problems is much much easier.

                                     

                                    What version of CS are you using?

                                    • 15. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                      CME101 Level 1

                                      Many of the documents I produce are likely smaller than one of your sections to the 800+ pages you produced. I find it hard to justify breaking them up into individual files.

                                       

                                      I have found that, by rebuilding with copy/paste I can isolate the bad section. For instance, I am rebuilding my table which has lettered rows. I first copied the table into a new document. Then I copy and paste sections back into the original. So far I have found that when I copy/paste row E, ID crashes after pasting. I suspect there may be more than one bad row and will copy/paste/save/crash (maybe) each till I have isolated all the bad and retype them. Maybe it would be faster to retype the whole table, A to O.

                                      • 16. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                        Charles Whalley Level 1

                                        Are you PC or Mac and what version of CS are you on?

                                        • 18. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                          Charles Whalley Level 1

                                          We're macs here so not sure on this one.

                                           

                                          The only real issues we have had are when we have updated and updated and updated files from CS2 through to CS5 and sometime something goes 'pear' shaped. Or when we have converted old Quark work into CS.

                                          • 19. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                            CME101 Level 1

                                            This file started in Quark. The other did, too.

                                             

                                            My copy/paste solution did not work. I am relatively sure the problem is in the table. I will delete the table and retype it in hopes that will resolve the problem.

                                             

                                            Thanks for the support.

                                            • 20. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                              Charles Whalley Level 1

                                              Thought as much - tabular stuff from Quark to InDesign has never been a huge success. Hope it all works out for you.

                                              • 21. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                CME101 wrote:

                                                 

                                                This file started in Quark. The other did, too.

                                                 

                                                My copy/paste solution did not work. I am relatively sure the problem is in the table. I will delete the table and retype it in hopes that will resolve the problem.

                                                 

                                                Thanks for the support.

                                                Any time you convert from Quark or Pagemaker the very first ting you should do is export to .idml or .inx (depending on the version of ID) to clean up the file.

                                                • 22. Re: Unable to process pdf for large book with 100's of Links
                                                  CME101 Level 1

                                                  Thanks Peter. I will definately keep that in mind. We have a lot of documents in Quark and, when I update them, I will have to convert to ID.