20 Replies Latest reply on Sep 3, 2011 5:58 PM by ssprengel

    Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(

    SargeT13 Level 1

      Hi!

      That's boring, really, a have to remember to reduce brightness every time I import photos, for example in lightroom. Is there any way to get rid of that? Maybe someone knows where these settings are coming from? Is it possible that my camera (I got lumix DMC-FZ100 - no changable lens) writes them into its raw files?

      Thanks in advance for any help!

        • 1. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
          JimHess-h1lFU3 Level 1

          My experience is that those settings are pretty much standard for all cameras.  But that is just a starting point.  You can adjust your image to whatever you want, and then save those settings as your own Camera Raw or Lightroom default settings.  From that point onward, those new settings will be applied to all images that you open in Camera Raw or Lightroom.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
            areohbee Level 6

            It wouldn't surprise me if Adobe regrets choosing non-zero values as the "zero-points" for those settings (maybe not...), but you'll make yourself a lot happier if you think of them that way:

             

                - all the non-zero defaults are the "zero-points" for those settings.

             

            If you want different defaults then Alt-click the 'Reset' button in Develop module (Lightroom), but don't zero them out or your photos will look like cr@p.

             

            Short explanation: raw data generally needs some brightness, contrast, and sharpening before it will look like a real picture. *All* raw processors do this, its just usually more hidden.

             

            R

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
              SargeT13 Level 1

              Hmm, my experience is based on raw pictures taken by a number of Canons, Sonys which are made to be smarter than us and a Hasselblad H3DII with its own tricky format - all of these pictures have been imported with true standard settings: zeros, zeros, zeros... My Lumix is the first camera with such an issue.

              BTW, it'not listed in profiles. No Panasonic cameras are listed there, actually. Could it be that the camera itself writes these settings into the files?

              Anyway, thanks a lot for your advice, Jim, I never noticed any settings' defaults for importing in Lightroom that could be saved. I'm gonna find out about that, thanks again.

              • 4. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                areohbee Level 6

                RGB files have a default brightness, sharpness, and contrast already baked in, and so all their initial settings are zero in Lightroom.

                 

                I *thought*, the non-zero default values for *all* raws were the same, but maybe Lightroom has some other tricks up its sleeve that I'm not aware of, depending on camera/model/raw-file-format...

                 

                R

                • 5. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                  SargeT13 Level 1

                  Rob, that may apply to other settings - yeah, shots become pretty dark as i move brightness slider to 0, but sharpness... I'm not a real fan of noise, endeed, because that's truly the thing that can make your shots look cr@ppy with ease.

                  And I actually thought that shooting RAW is the way to get data from the sensor as it is, bypassing the proc. Thanks for letting me know that.

                  • 6. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                    SargeT13 Level 1

                    Looks like the non-zero values are written in by the cam. I just only can't understand why to spin up the sharpness control for that damn noisy cmos sensor. I will drive some experiments with settings within the camera tomorrow to find out if that's true.

                    • 7. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Out of the box, a new install on a new computer, the "factory defaults" in ACR and LR are the same as eachother and the same for all cameras, but if the factory defaults are modified and new defaults are set, then these are per camera model and optionally per ISO setting.

                       

                      The non-zero defaults of toning, sharpening and noise-reduction for 1-color-per-pixel RAW/DNG/TIF data are different than the all-zeros defaults for 3-colors-per-pixel JPG/TIF files that aren't RAW.  Not sure what the Hassy produces and it's possible that if the camera produces DNGs natively, the camera can set some of the processing parameters and the ACR defaults wouldn't be used.

                       

                      Not having zeros for the RAW-format defaults shouldn't be a worry and don't expect things to look good if you set all zeros, everywhere for RAW-format files.  The Mask slider is there to help keep noise from getting sharpened.  I have modified the default Mask level to be in the 70s, but have left the default sharpness alone.

                       

                      For a particular ISO and set of toning settings, the optimal sharpness value depends on the sharpness of the lens vs the resolution of the sensor and the strength of the optical or digital anti-aliasing filter the camera applies before writing the RAW files to the memory card.

                      • 8. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                        areohbee Level 6

                        The good news: Adobe allows defaults to be based on specific ISO values.

                        The bad news: Defaults can not be based on ISO ranges, so those defaults don't work if you use Auto-ISO (without defining a default for every possible auto-ISO setting your camera can come up with...).

                         

                        I use CollectionPreseter to assign sharpness and noise settings based on ISO ranges (among other things). J.Friedl also has a plugin that can assign settings based on ISO ranges.

                         

                        This is all personal stuff. I'm "hyper-sensitive" to the sharpness masking/detail artefacts, and so almost never use it, but some people love it.

                        I typically down-throttle sharpness detail to control noise amplification, instead of down-throttling sharpness amount or up-throttling masking - but it really depends on the photo... (and my mood ).

                         

                        Note: noise reduction is adaptive, and so it doesn't need as much variation based on ISO as you might think.

                         

                        My defaults - in general:

                        - the higher the ISO, the less sharpening detail, and more lum. NR; and higher sharpen radius plus increased sharpening amount.

                         

                        Hot tip: 1st crank up the lum. NR detail slider to restore detail lost due to lum. NR before resorting to other means (at higher ISOs anyway). lum.NR contrast has an order of magnitude less impact than the lum. NR detail.

                         

                        Another hot tip: a local with -50 sharpness masks all sharpening effects without blurring - its the closest thing Lightroom has to local noise reduction.

                         

                        My default sharpening amount ranges from 35 to 50, but yours may be zero - again, personal style/taste (and also depends on lens quality and shooting skill / conditions...).

                         

                        Sorry, I talk too much...

                         

                        R

                        • 9. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                          SargeT13 Level 1

                          No bad in talking to much, I think, since you are talking on subject

                          Thanks for sharing your experience, Rob.

                          • 10. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                            Yammer Level 4

                            My default exposure in Camera Raw is -0.50 because the default rendering is too bright. I know, you said "Brightness" and not "Exposure", but it's easy to confuse the two in many situations, although Brightness has more effect on the midtones.

                            Anyway, as I think someone already said, you can set the default to whatever you like, and select the option to make it a new default (which can also be camera and/or ISO specific).

                             

                            I did ask the developers once why they chose the figures 50 and 25 for default Brightness and Contrast, but I can't remember what the answer was. You'd need to search this forum for the discussion.

                            • 11. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                              Vit Novak Level 3

                              It looks that these numbers are a sort of parameters for default tone curve in Adobe standard profile, that was built in ACR before introduction of profiles. With both numbers zero, tone curve is linear

                               

                              However, after introduction of profiles, these numbers are confusing, because setting brightness and contrast to 0 and linear tone curve in curves pane will flatten only tone curve in Adobe standard profile. In camera profiles, these curves are different from Adobe standard curve. Brightness 50 Contrast 25 and medium contrast tone curve means that tone curve in the profile is used as is, without any correction (although you can see a sort of S curve in the curves pane for medium contrast). Setting brightnes 0 contrast 0 linear tone curve won't flatten a tone curve in camera profile (unless in case it's the same shape as Adobe standard curve), but result is unpredictable. So there is a history behind these values which really doesn't make any sense now, including medium contrast setting

                              • 12. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                SargeT13 Level 1

                                Sharpness! Sharpness is the thing that I'm really interested in (actually, NOT interested. Interested in value=0)! By default on freshly installed lightroom raw shots from different cameras have different sharpness setting: canon 1D has zero value, lumix DMC-FZ100 has +25%. I can't find out who stands behind this: camera writes this value or lightroom does. Panasonic's support keeps silence. I'm experimenting, but still got no valuable results.

                                • 13. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  I've only ever seen +25, but I've never owned a 1D-tier camera, either.

                                   

                                  If you have a 1D, then examine an Adobe-virgin RAW from the 1D with EXIFtool or similar and see what the sharpness is set to, then change it on the camera to something completely different, look at the settings in EXIFtool, again, to make sure they changed, and see if the LR value is different for either of the two shots.

                                   

                                  I would expect the Adobe-preferences to be the source unless the raw format is a DNG that has space for Camera-RAW-type settings, but perhaps Adobe did something special for a high-end camera, either reading it from the camera values or changing their factory defaults for a particular camera model.  It may also have to do with what your default camera profile is for each camera model.  Are they both ACR x.x or Adobe Standard?

                                   

                                  Do you have an Adobe-virgin 1D RAW file you can post a link to?  I'd like to see the default being zero on my system, too.

                                  • 14. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                    SargeT13 Level 1

                                    Sorry, no adobe-virgin raw from 1D til october (it's not mine), but I can provide virgin raws by hasselblad and canon 300D (oh, this is not a hi-end but truly a lo-end thing, you must agree ). Both of them have sharpness 0. And both have no sharpness setting in the camera menu - nothing to alter:(

                                    • 15. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                      areohbee Level 6

                                      To rule out an oopsidentally saved Lightroom default for the 1D, with a 1D Raw selected, Alt-click the Reset button (Develop Module) and choose 'Restore Adobe Defaults' (verify model is the 1D), then click 'Reset' (no Alt) - sharpness still 25?

                                       

                                      I too have heard that Sharpness=25 is Adobe default for *all* raws, so if not then thats new to me...

                                       

                                      But still, all this seems academic (although still interesting ), unless something else is wrong, since you can set defaults according to taste.

                                       

                                      If my (possibly wrong) understanding of the Lr world is correct, sharpness=0 for the 1D should be very soft (the reason Adobe chooses 25 instead). If sharpness=0 for your 1D is not soft compared to other models (at same sharpness), then my understanding of the Lr/1D world is wrong.

                                      • 16. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                        Yammer Level 4

                                        I need to re-read this thread, as I've lost sight of what we're supposed to be worried about.

                                         

                                        I never fully established if it was the camera manufacturers who hid their JPEG conversion settings, or if it was Adobe who disregarded them. Either way, to the best of my knowledge, Adobe only reads the sensor matrix data, white balance and EXIF; other camera settings (like sharpness, etc) are completely ignored. Camera settings for sharpness, contrast, colour space, etc. only affect  in-camera JPEG and image thumbnail creation. They are also preserved by  the manufacturer's own raw conversion software.

                                         

                                        I always believed that '25' is the default setting for sharpness, regardless of the camera, and any other default setting was probably chosen by someone as a new default on that computer. Likewise, other non-zero defaults are Brightness: 50, Contrast: 25, Radius: 1.0, Detail: 25, Color Noise: 25 (there may be more but I forget), and the Tone Curve is Medium.

                                         

                                        For most cameras, the process of demosaicing (converting the sensor matrix readings into an RGB image) involves interpolation of two out of three colours for every pixel. By its very nature, this is not an exact science, as colour values are best-guessed based on adjacent pixels. This is one of the reasons why digital images often need sharpening. Adobe has its own method of demosaicing which works best on most images with a sharpening setting of 25. However, you can change this to whatever you like, and indeed you can change the default, if you find it generally too high or too low.

                                        • 17. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          The ACR Sharpening defaults are NOT ZERO for the 300D which was my first DSLR. 

                                           

                                          Here are the non-zero defaults after things are reset to the "Factory" Defaults:

                                           

                                          White Balance: As Shot

                                          Blacks: 5

                                          Brightness: 50

                                          Contrast: 25

                                           

                                          Point Tone Curve: Medium Contrast

                                           

                                          Sharpening Amount: 25

                                          Radius: 1.0

                                          Detail: 25

                                          Masking: 0

                                          Color: 25

                                          Color Detail: 50

                                           

                                          Process: 2010

                                          Camera Profile: Adobe Standard

                                           

                                          To see these "Factory" Camera RAW Defaults you choose Reset Camera RAW Defaults from the menu that appears when you click the three-lines-arrow icon at the right of the Tab Title area for the particular tab you're interested in, such as at the righthand side of the Detail title area.  This is in ACR 6.5 RC but has been the same for many years, aside from the addition of more sliders in Sharpening and Noise-Reduction area, the addition of Process versions, and Camera Profiles other than the ACR x.x type.

                                           

                                          Also using Alt-Reset merely resets the settings back to the way they were when you entered ACR for the session, they do not reset back to Camera RAW Defaults and certainly not the "Factory" Defaults unless by coincidence because this is the first time you've looked at the RAW file in ACR or LR and, perhaps, you've never set any default other than the Factory Defaults.

                                          • 18. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                                            Folks have said a lot, but I wanted to add my own piece...

                                             

                                            Depending on what YOU like in your images and YOUR needs for image processing, its no sin to change the default Camera Raw settings to what you prefer!  It can take a while to find a set of defaults that provide a good starting point across the board, but it's doable.

                                             

                                            My own defaults are quite a bit off of the Adobe defaults, and that includes the Sharpening settings.

                                             

                                            -Noel

                                            • 19. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                              areohbee Level 6

                                              ssprengel wrote:

                                               

                                              The ACR Sharpening defaults are NOT ZERO for the 300D which was my first DSLR. 

                                              I'll be danged. Maybe its the same for OP's 1D - hmmm... I wonder why the difference.

                                               

                                               

                                              ssprengel wrote:

                                               

                                              Also using Alt-Reset merely resets the settings back to the way they were when you entered ACR for the session, they do not reset back to Camera RAW Defaults and certainly not the "Factory" Defaults unless by coincidence because this is the first time you've looked at the RAW file in ACR or LR and, perhaps, you've never set any default other than the Factory Defaults.

                                               

                                              This has so far not been true for me, unless I don't understand what you mean.

                                               

                                              For me, when holding the 'Alt' key down, the 'Reset' button changes to 'Set Default...' and if I then click it and choose 'Restore Adobe Default Settings' it will restore factory defaults - which are independent of any thing I have ever done in Lightroom. - Are you talking about something else or something? - I'm talking about Lightroom proper (I forget which forum I'm in...) maybe the reset button works differently in ACR proper...

                                              • 20. Re: Shots are all imported with sharpness +25% and brightness +50% :(
                                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                I was talking about Alt in ACR, not LR.  There is no Reset button in ACR until you press Alt.