18 Replies Latest reply on Sep 21, 2011 9:44 AM by ASTIK1969

    How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?

    ASTIK1969

      Ciao!

       

      I have designed a 3D illustration in Illustrator (version 15.0.2), this illustration need to be printed for a magazine cover and I want to use 2 pantone colours for it.

       

      The 2 pantone colours are assigned form the Swatch Palette.

      The image is in CMYK (file > document colour mode > CMYK).

       

      The illustration is in 3D and the text has been convereted in outline. But I have not expanded the appareance of any element.

       

      I want to add more depht to the illustration and Photoshop seems the best solution for shadows and visually looks better.

      Plus InDesign can manage Photoshops files with Effects very nicely.

      [I find difficult and problematic to import Illustrators files with added Effects in InDesign, it leaves always a white background around the image and I don't know how to get rid of that.]

       

      ...

       

      How do I import the image in Photoshop (version 10.0.2) and keep the pantone?

      If I export/import the image as .psd format the files gest converted in CMYK automatically.

       

      In the Swatch Panel (next to the pantones I want to use) I see two square boxex the first has a round gray circle (I don’t know what this means), the second has 4 triangles (this I believe means CMYK).

       

      In the Separation Preview panel (if I click Overprint Preview) I have listed the 4 CMYK colours and the 2 pantones but if I turn off the 5 CMYK eyes I only see the white artboard, it’s like if the pantone are not assigned.

       

      ...

       

      After adding the shadows in Photoshop I need to import the file from Photoshop to InDesign and the final file need to be transparent because there's a backround at the bottom and a box of text in between the background and the illustration.

      I could place the bacground and the text in photoshop no problem for that...

       

      The questions are how do I import the 3D file from Illustrator, keep the pantone and add the Photoshop shadow?

       

      ...

       

      Hope anyone can help me as I'm going to press soon...

       

      Please feel free to ask me anything else if need to answer the questions.

       

      Many many thanks in advance if you can help me.

       

      ASTIK

        • 1. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
          Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          When you bring an item into Photoshop from Illustrator it brings it in as a "Smart Object". These are considered vector for resizing inside photoshop, and are rasterised on output at the native resolution of the Photoshop file.

           

          So if you have a vector image from Illustrator as pure vector, the vector is rasterised by the RIP at a very high resolution.Advantage is the vectors can be output at a much larger physical size and retain sharpness.

           

          If your photoshop file has smart objects from Illustrator, they are output at the resolution of the Photoshop document at actual size. Disadvantage is that if the image is resized to a larger size you may see some problematic pixelation.

           

           

          When you bring an Illustrator file into Photoshop it also takes on the Colour Profile already used in Photoshop file, it does not keep the same colour mode.

           

          You need to sepcify Photoshop as DUOTONE document and add the Pantone colours there.

           

          Then you also need to bring in the Illustrator image in such a way that you can add the colour to the appropriate pantone channels/plates.

           

           

          You may need to simplify your shape from the 3D shape by drawing the certain areas of Pantone with the Pen tool, and then importing just those pantone filled shapes into Photoshop into the right Pantone channel/plate.

           

          Then draw the other Pantone Filled shapes in illustrator and bring them into the other Pantone channel/plate in photoshop.

           

           

          http://www.planetphotoshop.com/working-with-spot-color-channels.html

          • 2. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            ASTIK1969 wrote:

             

            Plus InDesign can manage Photoshops files with Effects very nicely.

            [I find difficult and problematic to import Illustrators files with added Effects in InDesign, it leaves always a white background around the image and I don't know how to get rid of that.]

             

            Have you tried showing the import options when placing the Illustrator art in ID? There should be an option for transparent background. This would be WAAAAY simpler than messing around with spots in Photoshop.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
              ASTIK1969 Level 1

              Hi Peter,

               

              That was very helfull.

               

              The issue I have is that InDesign don't see the pantone that I have assigned in Illustrator... why?

              How do I make sure that the Pantone are imported in InDesign?

              • 4. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                ID should be recognizing any spots used in Illustrator when you place the .ai file directly, and the swatches should be added to the ID swatches panel. What are you seeing different from this? Do you have convert spots to process enabled in the Ink manager, perhaps?

                • 5. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                  Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant
                  this illustration need to be printed for a magazine cover

                  Are you sure this magazine would print spot colors? Most "magazines" production is 4C process and not spot colors.

                   

                  The questions are how do I import the 3D file from Illustrator, keep the pantone and add the Photoshop shadow?

                  My first suggestion would be: Have you looked into the raster effects that can be achieved in Illlustrator. You could achieve your desired effects, while maintaining spot colors and vector elements. If you absolutely need a Photoshop file as spot colors, then you will have to sacrifice the vector aspect of the project. And to do this, you use spot channels in Photoshop, and there is not a straight forward method to accomplish this.

                   

                  Here is what I do: In Illustrator, change the color property of your spot color to be exclusively a process channel (i.e. one spot is all magenta+tints of M, the other is all cyan), Save as another name. Open Illustrator file as CMYK and rasterize to appropriate resolution in Photoshop. Use channels, create new spot channels. Copy the magenta channel, paste into spot channel. All editing will be done within the appropriate channel, and then you may have to resolve issues in the other spot channel. This can be done, while not the easiest of tasks.

                  • 6. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                    ASTIK1969 Level 1

                    ID don't see the spot colours at all, ther's no spot colour in the swatch when I import the .ai file.

                     

                    Is this because the image it's still with the 3D Extrude & Bevel and not converted? Do I need to get rid (raster or Expand Appareance) of that effect before I can import the file in ID?

                    I'm asking this because I'm going to exclude this if is not the problem then...

                     

                    I don't fully understand your last question, where is that conversion made in ILL or ID?

                     

                    The ILL Colour Panel it says Pantone 812 C @ 100% and then there's are 2 squares one with a gray circle in it and the other is the CMYK symbol, it should be like that?

                    • 7. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                      Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Have you brought this into Photoshop, then placed into InDesign?

                      • 8. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                        Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                        3D Extrude & Bevel

                        This effect does not maintain spot colors, warning comes right up in the panel.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                          ASTIK1969 Level 1

                          So if I don't thick Preserve Spot colour in the 3D > Extrude & Bevel panel it will convert the spot colour into CMYK?

                          • 10. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                            Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                            Preserve Spot Color (which I missed at first) does allow for one spot and black to be overprinted. As long as the color is defined as a spot color, when graphic is placed in Indesign, ID will honor the spot. But, keep in mind to view properly you need to have Overprint Preview turned on. And if you have 2 spots with this effect that adds black, you are up to at least 3 inks... why not print process?

                            • 11. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                              ASTIK1969 Level 1

                              Thanks for your answers, very much appreciated.

                               

                              I got both spot colours in ID now and the black is part of the CMYK anyway.

                               

                              I want to print the cover with 6 colours altogether - the 4 CMYK and 2 spot colours, this is because we want to give a big presence and make it look special as it is a special issue, one is a metallic blue the other is a fluoreshent pink.

                               

                              ...

                               

                              The other problem I have is about the shadows, hope you can help me for this as well.

                               

                              What would be the best way to add more deepth to the graphic?

                               

                              I like the way PS create shadows (Layer > Layer Style > Drop Shadow) and I have tested the end results so I know what I get.

                               

                              This is going back to the beginning of my question, would be best to pass it via PS or what?...

                              • 12. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                I'm pretty weak in the advanced stuff in Illustrator, but I found I had real problems a few weeks ago doing a blend between two spots -- got CMYK as a result. Something simialr may be going on with the extrusion if you are trying to blend from one color to the other. Overprinting spots with each other is NOT the same effect as a smooth color blend.

                                • 13. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                  Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant
                                  one is a metallic blue the other is a fluoreshent pink.

                                  I hate to say this, but mixing black ink with metallic and fluorescent inks is tricky. You would really need to minimize the metallic ink (making it less than 100%) where the black will overlay. Likewise for the fluorescent.

                                  What would be the best way to add more deepth to the graphic?

                                  Could you post a screen capture? Seeing the illustration may help come up with some ideas.

                                  • 14. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                    Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    metalic ink at a screen would prolly only work at 50% or less.

                                     

                                    Sounds like a funky job though.

                                    • 15. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                      ASTIK1969 Level 1

                                      This first image is the file in ID with High Quality Display on

                                       

                                      high quality display.png

                                       

                                      This is with Overprint Preview and that what I aming for, roughly, for the final. [I'm not sure what is the purpose of overprint preview in ID].

                                       

                                      overprint.png

                                       

                                      This is the 3 plates of Black and two pantones

                                       

                                      pantones and black plates.png

                                       

                                      This is the plate of Black plate

                                       

                                      balck plate.png

                                       

                                      This is the Pantone 812 c plate

                                       

                                      Pantone 812 c plate.png

                                       

                                      and finally this is the Pantone 8201 c plate

                                       

                                      pantone 8201 c plate.png

                                       

                                      Hope this can help to get the best solution

                                      • 16. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                        Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                                        Unfortunately Illustrator's 3D extrude doesn't allow for more dynamic enhancement and you may want to consider expanding the art to allow the ability to modify certain areas while accomplishing this all in Illustrator. One in particular is the extrusions (and especially any straight corner), they need more gradation, from bottom to top, to give the entire effect more pop. Another suggestion is enhancing the face of the letters and stars. If this was my project, I would expand art and maintain in Illustrator, as opposed to opening in Photoshop.

                                         

                                        On the print production side - my previous comment about not having 100% metallic ink mixing with black. Looking at your separation view, this is exactly what you have, and would never print well unless you compensate the metallic separation.

                                        • 17. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                          Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                                          Oh brother... In Illustrator, I just created a shape with a spot color, extruded, then expanded. You get two sets of art, one for spot, another for the black overprinting... it really would be difficult to modify the expanded art.

                                          • 18. Re: How to preserve and keep 2 Pantones from Illustrator, via Photoshop, to InDesign?
                                            ASTIK1969 Level 1

                                            In the end I imported the ILL file in PS added the shadows that I like it and then imported the PS in ID for final layouts.

                                             

                                            The reasond behind this is: my worriers about the consistency of the Pantone inks specially the metallic one, as I believe it would create problem with the balcks haftones of the balck plate.

                                             

                                            Metallic inks I believe have different consistency than CMYK liquid inks, not sure of the fluorescent ones.

                                             

                                            You might be interested to know what I have done for the final results.

                                            After importing the ILL file with layers in PS I added the shadows.

                                            Duplicated all the layers in a folder and for those I have removed the effects.

                                            Then I turned off the layers with effects.

                                            I then merged the layers in the folder; with the magic wand I created the two Pantone channels; first the metallic one (one channel for the stars) then the fluorescent one (the other channel for the main text).

                                            I have expanded both channels of one pixel and filled with the brush tool, making sure that the trap was covered (always whatch for that one!).

                                            Can't remeber why but I merged all the layes and imported the .psd file with no bacground in ID.

                                             

                                            We decied not to use the coloured background and the text below the main image, but to go just with white.

                                             

                                            See image for final result.

                                             

                                            sample.jpg

                                             

                                            Thanks again for you help guys.

                                             

                                            The end is that I could not achieve what I wanted in the way I believe it could work, so I had to use a more traditional approach.

                                             

                                            PS The printer diluted the fluorescent colour too much... can you believe it?