17 Replies Latest reply on Sep 19, 2011 1:48 PM by John Hawkinson

    InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame

    subraumpixel Level 1

      Hi,

       

      I'm working on a document that causes a weird problem: when I click into a text frame, sometimes this causes InDesign to beachball for a few seconds. Activity monitor shows that InDesign takes 100% CPU time - no other activity involved. After a few seconds, everything works smoothly again.

       

      This does not happen every single time I click into a text frame. It happens especially after inserting sth from a library, or from another document (say, 7 out of 10 times). But it may also happen when copying (Cmd-C, Cmd-V or Alt-drag) a simple text frame within the same page.

       

      I gets more weird: This only seems to happen in two of my documents (and copys thereof). There isn't anything special about these documents. They contain a lot of tables and anchored objects, but that's true for a lot of other documents, too. I tried copying a table from document A (no problems) to document B (the one with problems). Clicking into this table causes a beachball. Coping the very same table within document A is fine. Even copying the table back from document B does not cause any problems. It seems like the effect is document-exclusive. I just don't know what makes it so darn exlusive .

       

      This problem occurs on different machines (all Macs, all 10.6, all CS5). The faster the machine, the shorter the beachball time. But even on an 8-core-iMac it easily takes up to 2 secs. Which is annoying, to say the least.

       

      Any ideas?

        • 1. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
          subraumpixel Level 1

          Some additional info: No network involved (all files and linked files are stored locally), preflight is off.

          • 2. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
            John Hawkinson Level 5
            I'm working on a document that causes a weird problem: when I click into a text frame, sometimes this causes InDesign to beachball for a few seconds. Activity monitor shows that InDesign takes 100% CPU time - no other activity involved. After a few seconds, everything works smoothly again.

            Do you have time to click Sample Process in Activity Monitor? That's the way to figure out what's going on.

             

            If that's too slow, do you have a laptop or a second machine handy whose keyboard you can position within reach?

            • 3. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
              subraumpixel Level 1

              Plenty of time, actually

               

              I just clicked "Sample process" while InDesign was busy. That's what I get.

              The first (com.apple.main-thread) thread looks horrible.

              • 4. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                John Hawkinson Level 5

                Hmm, what version of 10.6 is this? I thought, as of 10.6.8, Sample Process always included the Binary Images section at the end. Unfortunately, because basically every one of the 250-odd plugins in InDesign has a GetPlugin()  symbol, it's tough to know exactly what is going on there...

                 

                So, all 2126 samples recorded the same bottom 49 stack frames:

                 

                2126 start
                2126 main
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 0x1cd60fef
                2126 SendEventToEventTarget
                2126 SendEventToEventTargetInternal(OpaqueEventRef*, OpaqueEventTargetRef*, HandlerCallRec*)
                2126 DispatchEventToHandlers(EventTargetRec*, OpaqueEventRef*, HandlerCallRec*)
                2126 ToolboxEventDispatcherHandler(OpaqueEventHandlerCallRef*, OpaqueEventRef*, void*)
                2126 SendEventToEventTarget
                2126 SendEventToEventTargetInternal(OpaqueEventRef*, OpaqueEventTargetRef*, HandlerCallRec*)
                2126 DispatchEventToHandlers(EventTargetRec*, OpaqueEventRef*, HandlerCallRec*)
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 CEventDispatcher::DispatchEvent(IEvent*, IEvent::SystemHandledState)
                2126 CEventDispatcher::DispatchToEventHandlers(IEvent*)
                2126 CDefaultEH::ButtonDblClk(IEvent*)
                2126 CWindowEH::ButtonDblClk(IEvent*)
                2126 PanelEventHandler::ButtonDblClk(IEvent*)
                2126 PanelEventHandler::ButtonDblClk(IEvent*)
                2126 PanelEventHandler::ButtonDblClk(IEvent*)
                2126 PanelEventHandler::ButtonDblClk(IEvent*)
                2126 0x1f6bb8b8
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 0x1cfbf039
                2126 CSubject::Change(IDType<ClassID_tag>, IDType<PMIID_tag> const&, void*)
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 0x1afdcfdb
                2126 0x1afdc658
                2126 0x1afdb09c
                2126 0x1cfa0675
                2126 PanelView::Show(short)
                2126 PanelView::ParentsVisibleStateChanged(short)
                2126 CControlView::DoAutoAttach()
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 PanelView::Show(short)
                2126 CControlView::Show(short)
                2126 CComboBoxView::DoAutoAttach()
                2126 CControlView::DoAutoAttach()
                2126 CFontFamilyObserver::AutoAttach()
                2126 CFontFamilyObserver::Init(short)
                2126 0x1e757c45
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 GetPlugIn
                2126 StoryEndCharHelper::FixEndCharacterSingleStory(UIDRef const&)

                (Sorry, that's kind of long. Maybe I should have formatted it differently?)

                But clearly it has something to do with Fonts (CFontFamilyObserver), and something to do with one particular story (FixEndCharacterSingleStory()).

                Then when we look actually closer to the top of the stack:

                 

                 

                    2121 StoryEndCharHelper::FixEndCharacterSingleThread(ITextModel*, long, long)
                      2121 StoryEndCharHelper::GetFontAttributes(ITextModel*, long, boost::shared_ptr<AttributeBossList>*)
                        2119 GetPlugIn
                          1154 AttributeScanner::AttributeScanner(IComposeScanner const*, long, long, IDType<ClassID_tag> const*, IDType<ClassID_tag> const*, AttributeScanner::AttributeClassification)
                            1151 AttributeScanner::ReadAttributeChunk(short)
                              1143 AttributeScanner::ReadAttributesFromVOS(VOS_SimpleCursor*, short, short)
                                1120 AttributeScanner::ReadAttributesFromRunIn(AttributeBossList const*, long*, short)
                                  1117 GetPlugIn
                                    1116 GetPlugIn
                                      1102 GetPlugIn
                                        1011 GetPlugIn
                                          963 GetPlugIn
                                            889 GetPlugIn
                                              768 GetPlugIn
                                                658 boost::basic_regex<int, boost::icu_regex_traits>::do_assign(int const*, int const*, unsigned int)
                                                  596 boost::re_detail::get_icu_regex_traits_implementation(icu_3_6::Locale const&)
                                                    587 icu_3_6::Collator::createInstance(icu_3_6::Locale const&, UErrorCode&)
                                                      586 icu_3_6::Collator::makeInstance(icu_3_6::Locale const&, UErrorCode&)
                                                        581 icu_3_6::RuleBasedCollator::RuleBasedCollator(icu_3_6::Locale const&, UErrorCode&)
                                                          578 icu_3_6::RuleBasedCollator::setUCollator(char const*, UErrorCode&)
                                                            578 ucol_open_internal_3_6

                 

                          958 AttributeScanner::GetSameRunLength()
                            958 AttributeScanner::ReadAttributeChunk(short)
                              958 AttributeScanner::ReadAttributesFromVOS(VOS_SimpleCursor*, short, short)
                                944 AttributeScanner::ReadAttributesFromRunIn(AttributeBossList const*, long*, short)
                                  942 GetPlugIn
                                    941 GetPlugIn
                                      933 GetPlugIn
                                        865 GetPlugIn
                                          812 GetPlugIn
                                            744 GetPlugIn
                                              647 GetPlugIn
                                                538 boost::basic_regex<int, boost::icu_regex_traits>::do_assign(int const*, int const*, unsigned int)

                 

                 

                Well, I made some attempt to filter out the weeds. A substantial amount of time is spent in the regular expression library. Do you have GREP styles? They may be part of the problem.

                 

                If we can resolve this without needing to know which GetPlugIn() are which, that would be helpful. Otherwise you'll need to [maybe?] upgrade to 10.6.8; force a crash (View > Send Signal > Abort (SIGABRT)) in Activity Monitor, which may not be easy to do usefully, since if the crash happens during one of the unremarkable parts of the beachball, it won't tell us anything; break out fancier less user-friendly tools like Instruments.app or gdb.

                 

                I don't suppose you're familiar with any of those tools?

                 

                So, I would try removing all your non-system fonts and seeing if that changes the behavior. Or tightening up GREP styles...

                Or pulling out the heavy guns.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                  subraumpixel Level 1

                  OK, so I've duplicated the document to run some tests. First, I changed all fonts (several styles of Frutiger LT Std) to equivalent types of System Helvetica (TrueType). As far as I can see (after a few minutes of clicking around in the document) the problem has vanished. No beachball anymore. I then changed Helvetica to an OpenType variant of Helvetica. Still no problems. I changed it back to Frutiger (but just one font style) - no problems either.

                   

                  I closed the document without saving and reopened it. I then deleted all GREP styles (I indeed use plenty of them) but left the fonts unchanged. Again - no problems so far. If there's still a delay after clicking into a text frame, it's negligible.

                   

                  So, thanks a lot. Problem is (kind of) solved. I'll kick the GREP styles and hope that the document stays healthy. 

                   

                  Still, I'm not sure what's going on. And there are only two documents that show massive delays when clicking into a text frame. In the second document I use different fonts and far less GREP styles (only two or three). I use GREP styles in other documents, too - more of them and on more pages over all. The font (Frutiger) is used in countless documents.

                  • 6. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                    subraumpixel Level 1

                    By the way, system version is 10.6.8.

                    • 7. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                      Marina Michaels Level 1

                      I'm having a similar problem in CS5 on my WIndows XP machine (and also on my laptop, which is WIndows 7 Professional). I originally answered to a CS4 post, but this post is more recent and perhaps more pertinent.

                       

                      I am working on a cookbook that has a fair number of cross-references within and across chapters. When I type something in any chapter, ID takes literally about one minute (or more!) per letter for display the text. In order to get any reasonable speed, I have to type new text in a text editor, then copy and paste it into the file. I did not initially have this problem, even with cross-references, but it suddenly became very bad and has never gone back. I do not have this problem in other files that aren't part of the book, but it is a problem in at least every recipe chapter in this book. (I haven't checked the front matter.) There are at present just a handful of images (one per chapter, but not all chapters have them yet), all of which are linked, so it isn't a linking-versus-embedded problem. The files are all local.

                       

                      Here is what I have tried so far with no results:

                       

                      1.  Turning off live preflight.

                      2.  Re-inserting all the cross-references in one chapter.

                      3.  Having all files in the book open.

                      4.  Saving a file using "save as." Before trying to put the renamed version into the book, I tried typing in the file. Still the same incredibly slow speed.

                      5.  Disabling thumbnails in the Pages panel.

                      6.  Disabling the Always Save Preview Images with Documents (in Preferences > File Handling).

                      7.  Changing Live Screen Drawing (in Preferences > Interface) to Delayed, then Never.

                       

                      What is the Activity Monitor? Is that something I can use on my XP machine?

                       

                      • 8. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                        Boy, when it rains it pours (and its literally raining right now outside my window, too).

                         

                        subraumpixel:

                        I guess I sort of forgot to ask -- did you try exporting your document to IDML and re-opening it? It's possible your document was just corrupt, rather than there being some sort of bizarre consistent font problem involving GREP styles.

                         

                        I hear you as saying you tried two different approaches, both changing the font and removing the GREP styles, and both were successful in making the problem go away. I don't suppose you tried restoring the particular Frutiger LT Std variant? Perhaps it is a bizarre issue with that font.

                         

                        Marina:

                        Generally speaking, please try to resist the temptation to glom onto another thread that looks relevant but is inactive. The first thread you posted on, Re: Slow typing of letters (InDesign CS4), is half a year old, and clearly some of the core details differ. Also, since that thread is already marked as Answered, it does make some things harder. And this thread is about "few second" hangs, rather than minutes...

                         

                        Anyhow, your problem sounds...radically different. My first stop would be to suggest file corruption, and that you should export the file to IDML and open the IDML file. This is one of our standard diagnostic techniques, and I'm not quite sure why I didn't suggest it to subraumpixel initially -- I think I was a bit too curious about the beachballing.

                         

                        Oh, I see from your edit to your other post that that's your plan. Err, well, you say INDD > INX > INDD but in CS5 IDML replaces INX.

                        Also, resetting your preferences should be like the first thing to try, not near the end of your list. Though it doesn't seem altogether likely to be the problem here, but it's so easy to do and fixes so many weird problems.

                         

                        It's really hard to know what Adobe technical support is aware of, but it's really a bad idea to assume that anyone knows anything. InDesign is a really complicated problem and it's a bit too easy to come up with bizarre behaviors that nobody else ever sees, either inside or outside Adobe. So don't assume it. (Also, unfortunately, making sure that Adobe Engineering is aware of a problem after you report it to Adobe Support can sometimes be a bit more challenging than it should be.)

                         

                        Another approach is to try paring down the file. Make a copy and delete the pages, the paragraph styles, the hyperlinks, the cross-references, and try to see if you can determine what is causing the slowness. Do you have any font autoactivation software running? Any other third-party InDesign plugins?

                         

                        All of the things you've mentioned are the kinds of things might cause small delays, but shouldn't cause huge ones. I guess they're good to try, but I'm not surprised they didn't work.

                         

                        What is the Activity Monitor? Is that something I can use on my XP machine?

                        Sadly not. Activity Monitor is the Mac version of the Windows Task Manager, but it has some extra features, including this ability to look at what a program is doing and produce a report. It's certainly handy in that one can easily ask somebody to go do it, though I'm a little surprised it is there because it's inscrutable to most users.

                         

                        Windows not have a built-in equivalent. I haven't really any experience with profiling tools under Windows, but googling suggests a myriad of options, inclding Very Sleepy (http://www.codersnotes.com/sleepy) and Microsoft's Windows Performance Analysis Tools (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/performance/cc825801.aspx). Unfortunately I think both are geared for programmers, rather than end-users, so you may have some trouble getting them to give you useful output, or even output that is useful to us/me. I would give all the other options a shot before we start marching down this road.

                        • 9. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                          subraumpixel Level 1

                          Yep, I've tried the INDD > IDML > INDD workaround, but that didn't help (with none of the affected documents).

                           

                          I'm not sure if I get your second point (restoring Frutiger?).

                           

                          But I've done some more testing on the second document. In many ways it's similar to the first one (lots of tables and anchored objects), but it uses Helvetica Neue LT Pro and far less GREP styles. However, most of these GREP styles are more or less identical to the ones in the other doc (e.g. "(?<=h|c|C|s|S)min"). I deleted just three GREP styles, and the problem is gone (more or less - there might still be a slight delay, but it's negligible).

                           

                          So the problem seems GREP-related, but I can't tell why it's just these two documents that are affected.

                          • 10. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                            John Hawkinson Level 5
                            I'm not sure if I get your second point (restoring Frutiger?).

                            Sorry. You had said:

                             

                            First, I changed all fonts (several styles of Frutiger LT Std) to equivalent types of System Helvetica (TrueType)...I changed it back to Frutiger (but just one font style) - no problems either.

                            So my question is if you changed back to the specific styles of Frutiger that you had originally, does the problem come back?

                             

                            Could you email me one of the problem documents?

                            • 11. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                              subraumpixel Level 1

                              Ah, ok. No, I haven't changed back to all specific styles. In the last step, I just replaced all fonts with one variant of Frutiger. The problem did not come back then.

                               

                              Back on the original file, I tried to replace the typefaces one by one to see if the problem goes away when replacing one particular typeface. 6 typefaces are used, with Frutiger LT Std Light being the 'main' typeface. Almost all GREP styles are applied to text that uses this typeface. So I replaced it with system Helvetica - the problem goes away (as far as I can tell after a little bit of testing). If I then change Helvetica back to Frutiger Light, the problem comes back as well. Replacing another typeface (e.g. Frutiger Black italic, no GREP style affects text set in this typeface) does not make the problem go away.

                               

                              I tried some other fonts as well:

                              Replacing Frutiger Light with...

                              - Myriad Pro Light: no problem (font bundled with creative suite)

                              - Minion Pro: no problem (font bundled with creative suite)

                              - Officina Sans Pro: no problem (bought from FontShop)

                              - Eurostile Condensed Pro: no problem (bought from Linotype)

                               

                              - Helvetica Neue Pro Light: same problem (bought from Linotype)

                              - Frutiger Std Roman/Frutiger Com Light: same problem (bought from Linotype)

                               

                              When using these fonts, deleting the GREP styles solved the problem (although I think there's still a slight delay - contrary to when using the 'no problem' fonts, there seems to be no delay at all)

                               

                              So it looks like a weird a weird combination of some fonts and (my) GREP styles.

                              • 12. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                                Marina Michaels Level 1

                                @John Thanks for the (mild) chastisement. :-) Point taken.

                                 

                                One thing that interested me in this thread is that I am also using Frutiger Pro in one of my main heading styles, so I am wondering if my problem (which occurs in all the chapters of my book, not just one) is related to that font.

                                 

                                I will try your suggestions but I will first change the font for that one style first.

                                 

                                Again, thanks for your comments and guidance, and my apologies.

                                • 13. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                                  Marina Michaels Level 1

                                  Well, I *thought* I was using Frutiger, but it is actually Fertigo.


                                  Also, should I start a different thread for my problem?

                                  • 14. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                                    Also, should I start a different thread for my problem?

                                     

                                    Gray area, I can't decide. It would have been a good idea initially,

                                    but less clear now.

                                    • 15. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                                      John Hawkinson Level 5
                                      Well, I *thought* I was using Frutiger, but it is actually Fertigo.

                                      How's it going?

                                      Perhaps the problem applies to all fonts that begin with the letter "F" and contain the lettes "r","t","i", and "g"?

                                      • 16. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                                        Marina Michaels Level 1

                                        That was a good joke. :-)

                                         

                                        I tried resetting the preferences with no change, and tried converting all the cross-refs in one file to text, again with no change. I tried saving the file (with no cross-refs) in IDML format and then reopening it; again, no change.

                                         

                                        My next thought is to try copying all the text over into an unformatted document to see if that makes a difference, since it is only with the files for this book that I have this problem.  I might also try the font change and/or delete my GREP styles. As a last-ditch effort, I may call Adobe support.

                                        • 17. Re: InDesign (CS5) beachballs when clicking into a text frame
                                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                                          I am not sure why you think I was joking.