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The preferred method of making PDF is to use the File > Export command
Thanks for your reply. My client always ask to do .ps then use distiller for creating PDF.
I am curious to know why this issue comes repeatedly. Is it font problem or printer setting problem?
Anyhow if i recreated the same method, then it displays good.
Can you please briefly explain me about this issue. Because my client asks the explanation.
You’re mixing archaic workflows with modern fonts and software. FWIW, I have no idea why it’s happening and IMO it would be silly to try and troubleshoot something like this when exporting the PDF will likely solve the problem.
1 person found this helpful
It's hard to pin this sort of problem down when it it's intermittent like this (you say it works if you do the job a second time). My guess is that it is font-related.
That said, Distiller does not support all of the newer features of the PDF specification. I'm not sure what it's capabilities are for handliing double-byte characters in OTF fonts (It sounds like this is a problem with a ligature, which is outside the regular ascii range).
There are some other threads that discuss the realtive merits of exporting over distilling. Distilled PDF is a very old workflow and it sounds like your client may be working with technology that is more than a little out of date. If that's the case, you may need to make modifications on your end to accomodate their workflow, but I would suggest you try exporting a PDF/X-1a file instead of printing to postscript, and see if that exported file will pass through their system OK.
Hi Bob and Peter,
Thanks for your answer. I also suggested my client here after we go with export option.
My biggest headache is, i have to make a summary to explain about the mistake to my client. If you have any idea how i technically answer to my client, that will be help for me.
We also faced the same heat on "hn", "io" and "il" in some of the jobs. But we are using CS5 and Mac OS X 10.5. The same "hn" character is replaced by Ÿ. Not in single jobs, We faced the same problem in multiple jobs for the past one and half month.
We initially thought that the problem lied in indesign to postscript conversion in related to fonts, we removed font cache before processing every jobs and the problem seemed to be disappeared. But all of a sudden few days back, we got this replacement in Indesign document itself. The "hn" character appeared as "Ÿ" when we opened an indesign document. We took a screenshot for this one and closed the document, while opening again, we didn't find this issue in the same document.
Been those machines perfectly worked in the past with same version of software since a year it was installed, all of a sudden since one day it happened regularly. We initiated the zero format in this mac and we reinstall every software freshly and doing test. I shall post if we succeed!
Can anyone have any idea about why this is happening? Can Adobe Expert look into these issues? Thanks in advance for your valuable replies.
Thanks for sharing your problem with my discussion. So now i hope it will come as a regular problem for many users. I think we will get some answers, because i know forum have many adobe experts.
Welcome! May i know what version of Indesign and Mac OS X are you using with, so us to confirm its not an issue with Indesign CS5 alone. Since, previously we were used CS2…CS5, During the usage of CS5 only we have this issue.
We use MAC OS X 10.5.
I am using indesign CS4 and Mac OS X 10.56.
I just investigate in internet, so far i found some datas. Like, It may be happened with font properties like ligature. As you said is correct, we have to clear the font cache. We also used same print preset but the employee forget to use regular PPD (when the problem occurs), he used another PPD which is available in that machine. May be this also cause some problem.
Anyhow still i am not clear. Hope you can help me.
If the problem appeared suddenly it may be due to an OS update or a third-party plugin. Do either of you, for example, run a font manager that was recently updated?
Yes my machine recently installed with 3rd part plugin which used for our workflow. That plugin import images from client site.
You might want to try disabling that plugin temporarily and see if the type problem goes away. If it does, you'll need to contact the plugin vendor.
Actually after i installed the plugin, sofar it does not make any error. But suddenly one day i faced this knid of junk character issue. But i created the same again it comes without error. That is Weird!
Maybe the ligature problem or font cache clearing or wrong PPD usage or...i don't know how to pinpoint this!!
@Peter: We only used those macs to make postscript and PDF from ID. It was long ago we upgraded extensis suitcase version to 12.1.6. We don't conclude this upgrade isn't the source of this issue though. But in our case, ID too rendered the characters as junk characters. Sometimes, we tested with loading the fonts in Users/Library/Fonts, But ID rendered wrong characters then too.
So we predicted that the system font cache became malfunctioned, we did clear font cache before every jobs using font nuke, but it too gone in vain.
I don't use Suitcase so I don't know version numbers, but a recent upgrade to SC Fusion 3 was writing data into link pointers that it shouldn't have been, and Suitcase has a long history, in my opinion, of causing trouble. It may not be the culprit, but it would be worth disabling temporarily for testing.
There is no easy way to pinpoint the cause of trouble that comes and goes like this.
It seems both parties experiencing the problem are on 10.5.6, no? I suggest updating the OS to 10.5.8.
@Peter: It may be the version 14 and higher writing data into link pointer, since FMCore preference is running in System Preference Pane. But, We stick on to lower version, and we have been using it from the past and we didn't have any issue. So, we are using it for the test.
@kjohn: Yep, we are updating with 10.5.8 and testing.
We update with Mac OS X 10.5.8, Indesign CS5 7.0.3 and Suitcase Fusion with 12.1.7 and do testing, if anything turnsout working great, I let you know.
Ligature or PPD is not in a way to create this issue we prefer to ruled out this things as a cause. It is inter related to version of fonts, indesign and OS. So, upgrading to the latest unbugged version would workout for us!
Current version of CS5 is 7.0.4....
As I think I said, I don't use Suitcase, but I seem to recall plenty of problem reports with CS5 and versions earlier than Fusion 3.
We have been having similar Issues as above.
We are getting font character "Glyphs replacing other characters"
Specs of the machines
ID version=ID-CS5 ver 7.0.3
Acrobat Distiller version = 8.0
Suitcase version=12.1.7 (We do not use suitcase anymore thinking this was the issue, we place the fonts into the Indesign CS5 font folder)
Fonts we have had this issue with
Sabon LT Std.
Garamond MT Regular
Fairfield LT STD
Palatino LT Std
Minion Pro Regular
Times New Roman PS
Characters that have been causing the issues.
io, il, hn, SY
The characters they are replaced with.
Ú Ÿ Õ Š Ỳ §
We run font cache cleaners such as Font Nuke, Font smasher and we even created our own from information found in other places where all the font cache's hide as well as suitcase's.
We tend to catch this issue in out PDF files we are actually but it does show up in the Indesign file, but you can close indesign and then reopen it and the issue is gone.
This lead us to believing it was a system font cache issue.
We process many jobs on a given day via 3 different machines that are setup to create PDF files.
We have a Process in place that before every job we clean the font cache and restart the machine. Now I do not know if people are following this procedure all the time but we do have this issue appear like every 3 weeks when we get more work going thru the workflows.
I am looking for other Solutions to what this could be, would upgrading to cs5.5 help solve this issue? Could it be Indesigns Preference file getting bashed as well? How can I better search for these characters.
We have been finding new characters it has replaced so its not always the same characters one time it was
joÚ =john this was the latest.
Thank you for any responses.
Is this happening after you have collected the file for output? If so, try deleting the file AdobeFnt13.lst in your Document Fonts folder and retry. I too was having font replacment issues and deleting this file solved my problem.
This is one of the Font cache's we clear before we punch we work on the job.
This happens when we open the job. We do not collect for output on a Job.
We have self contained jobs already designed from the start of our work flow for easy collection
We have a "core" working folder then inside that we have the following exampel of our managment
Client_number <Top folder
Job_number < 1st level folder
job_number_core <2nd level folder
job_number_application < Application folder Indesign, Quark etc..
job_number_fonts < all fonts used for the job
job_number_art < all active art for the job
We copy the font folder to the indesign cs5 font folder where the AbobeFnt13.ist after we clear the font cache and restart the machine.
So the AdobeFnt13.ist should be clean 0 cache info in it.
Now it is possible an operator is not following this procedure and the AdobeFnt12.ist gets corrupt.
Since first posting in this thread a few months ago to simply update the OS I've since heard from others (one teacher and one student/intern) who have seen this issue as well, and apparently CS5.5 doesn't resolve it. Personally, though, I still haven't experienced the problem on my iMac.
This thing still seems to be an issue. Just happened to a customer:
Out of nothing one day the PDF export delivered similar substitutions. The next day everything was fine again.
Result: tons of costly makulation. I wish I could make Adobe pay for not solving this problem for more than six years. Is it too much to ask for some Adobe expert to look closer into this?
This thread focuses on distilled PDFs. Is that how you're creating them?
Our customer uses MadeToPrint. I have to ask for a complete description of software versions and platforms involved. But the above shows, that this occurs with all kinds of settings or export variations – even in indd itself. To me, this points clearly to an indd bug.
To me, this points clearly to an indd bug.
I think Bob's point is the posts in this thread are 6 years old, and all of the posters were printing postscript and distilling, which even in 2011 was a discouraged workflow. If its a bug you would have to show it happening via an Export and post the settings info.
You'd also have to show that it's happening with a supported configuration meaning the newest version of InDesign on a supported operating system using the export function to create the PDF.
If this were a common occurrence it would not have taken 6 years for a new instance.
And one more thing. If this issue does not occur without the MadeToPrint plugin installed, then your customer should check with Four Pees and report the problem to them.
Gurucbsbo 18.09.2011 descripes, that it even happens directly in indd – without any export...
So we have CS4 on Mac OS X 10.5.6., CS5 on Mac OS X 10.5.? and CS5 (ver 7.0.3) on Mac OS 10.5.8.
I'll try to give you the exact versions used by my customer soon, but assume it's something like CC on minimum Mac OS 10.12 or even Windows... Different exports were used like Distiller and MadeToPrint.
I wouldn't guess the fonts create the problem. I looked into the font files and there is definetely no evidence for any of the wrong substitutions. Font managers are also unlikely as they don't deal with unicode substitutions.
The only constant is the letter combinations io, il, hn, SY etc, substituted irreguarly by Ú Ÿ Õ Š Ỳ etc. These are all unicode characters and I can see no other error than a plain bug in handling a sequence of unicodes. Here are some examples:
io 0069 006F > Ô 00D4
il 0069 006C > Ö 006D or Õ 00D5
ch 0063 0068 > Ú 00DA
fl 0066 006C (or ligature FB02) > ÿ 00FF
hn 0068 006E > Ÿ 0178 or Ú 00DA
Although this should today be completely handled by the font, InDesign does character substitution in some cases. Some of them are stupid, like the unchangeable substitution of ß by SS in all caps setting (but only in the oldfashioned composers not the »world-ready« ones). I could imagine that there are other substitution routines from some old days which cause the trouble here...
Character substitution can be
1. a matter of the font – which is very unlikely as it happens with many different fonts
2. a matter of the OS – which is also unlikely, cause it's not reported within other text or layout software
3. a matter of InDesign.
Sorry, can't really see any other options...
I'm not convinced in any way that this is an InDesign issue. You're the only one reporting it and AFAIC, it sounds very much like a wonky font since this is occurring with ligatures.
As a workaround, turn them off.
io, il etc. are not ligatures at all. They are letter sequences that are substituted by a single character. If such substitutions would be defined in a font, they can only be in the feature script. I checked this: They are not.
That’s why it sounds like a wonky font. Have you tried other fonts? Have you tried turning off all opentype features and all ligatures?
Again, you’re the only one seeing this (and no, hijacking a seven year old thread is not proof of other issues-those are completely different).
Different exports were used like Distiller and MadeToPrint.
But does it happen with File>Export? And could you share a sample page with the fonts?
What font is it? If you tell me, and if I get it, I could try since I am a MtP server/InDesign Server user.
The fonts are many. The above example is Meta Black and Meta Condensed MediumLF (ttf).
This is the full list of all fonts used in 3 indd files:
CorporateS-Bold (Mac Type 1)
CorporateS-Demi (Mac Type 1)
CorporateS-ExtraBold (Mac Type 1)
CorporateS-LightItalic (Mac Type 1)
CorporateS-Medium (Mac Type 1)
CorporateS-Regular (Mac Type 1)
CorporateS-RegularItalic (Mac Type 1)
In this thread above people also named these fonts:
Sabon LT Std.
Garamond MT Regular
Fairfield LT STD
Palatino LT Std
Minion Pro Regular
Times New Roman PS