7 Replies Latest reply on Sep 24, 2011 11:04 AM by the_wine_snob

    Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files

    GunswingerZZ Level 1

      Does anybody else have problems using mpeg files with these products?

       

      Issue 1:

       

      I have a number of mpeg video files created over the years (using mainly Ulead/Corel and Roxio editing software). When attempting to import these into Organizer, it invariably and immediately crashes. Other types of video file (mov, avi, mp4, wmv) all import successfully.

       

      I have examined these files using the 'gspot' program recommended elsewhere on this forum. This identifies the codec as 'MPEG2' and indicates 'Codecs are installed'. However when applying the rendering test, it initially comes up with an error 'Failed to create instance of MainConcept (Adobe 2) MPEG demultiplexer. CoCreateInstance() failed. Error 0x80040154 (unknown)'. However gspot then goes on to complete the rendering using 'Ulead DVD Video decoder 2'.

       

      These files all seem to work normally in other applications (including PE9 itself), and can be viewed in Windows Media Player (WMP), Picasa and Windows Live Picture Gallery.

       

      Issue 2:

       

      Experimentally, I imported one of these files into PE9 (successfully), made some token edits to it, and then rendered it back using the PE9 'mpeg file' option, hopefully thereby deploying Adobe's version of the mpeg encoding. The resulting file:

      (a) still did not import into Organizer without crashing it

      (b) played OK in WMP, but

      (c) failed to play in Picasa, and

      (d) caused gspot to freeze when attempting the render test - gspot reported the possibility of a corrupted file in DirectShow and pointed the finger at a file called ntdll.dll. So far as I can see, this is a standard Windows dll extension, last updated at the time of the Windows 7 SP1 upgrade in March 2011.

       

      Any ideas? To be honest, I am not too bothered about not viewing video files in Organizer, but am more concerned about the compatibility of mpeg files output by PE9. As the main object is in due course to burn them onto DVD's, it is obviously somewhat less convenient to use other file formats.

        • 1. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          MPEG2 is a format. Not a codec. In order to see the codec, you'll need to open the file in a program like G Spot.

          http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

           

          Ideally, it will say something universal like "Main Concept MPEG". But, since the files were created by Roxio/Ulead, they may not be.

           

          Also note the frame rate and frame size, as they are also relevant.

           

          Meantime, make sure you've got the latest version of Quicktime. 

           

          EDIT: I see you've tried to open it in G-spot. Uh oh. If G Spot shows them as corrupt, then that's your bigger issue. It's not a failure in your operating system or your editing software or the Organizer.

           

          It could be that Ulead/Corel installs some proprietary codecs. Have you got that product installed on this computer? It may be worth trying to see if it fixes or makes the files readable. Otherwise, you can try opening the files in Corel and then outputting them in a more universal format -- such as a 720x480 DV-AVI if they're standard definition or 1440x1080 anamorphic M2T/MPEG if they are hi-def.

          • 2. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
            GunswingerZZ Level 1

            Thanks for the prompt response.

             

            Just to clarify, the existing mpeg files generated by the Corel and Roxio software are perfectly readable and useable everywhere except in the Adobe Organizer. Gspot  just says 'Codec(s) are available' it doesn't say which. However it is evident that when doing the rendering test, it has used the Ulead decoder rather than the Adobe one.

             

            The main problem is with the mpg file generated by Adobe Premere Elements 9, which gspot seems to think is corrupt. I could try loading an Adobe-generated mpeg file into Corel and then re-rendering back. When I get time I will try that, and report back.

             

            My primary purpose of editing videos is to burn the product onto DVD, and secondarily then to browse them on the PC using Picasa or Organizer (if it works). MPEG-2 is a reasonable compromise for a final edit in terms of file size and economy of rendering times, ideally I don't want to be messing around with different file formats and continual re-rendering if it can be avoided.

            • 3. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              I would run one of those files through MediaInfo. Like G-Spot, it's free, but usually goes into more detail, and that can make a difference.

               

              Also, just having a CODEC installed, does not mean that all programs can use it. That could be the case here, with Organizer. This ARTICLE goes into more detail on CODEC's.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
                GunswingerZZ Level 1

                While I am truly appreciative of the assistance offered here, I do not see an easy way through to solving the problem. When I have time, I may try a re-install.

                 

                It would be nice if forums like this one could actually be focussed on helping users get the most out of the product, rather than the basics of getting things to work at all!

                 

                To be honest, from my point of view, I have paid good money for what is marketed as a retail consumer product, and which I therefore expect to work 'out of the box' and to co-exist happily with other mainstream photo and video products and the native Windows drivers. These products are all now into their 9th or 10th incarnations, and the MPEG-2 format has been around for well over a decade, any glitches and conflicts should have been ironed out long ago

                 

                I should not need to know what CODECs are, let alone how to update them, the product should come with and install by default any necessary runtimes and redistributables needed to make it work. It may also be significant that the 'free' versions of Quicktime do not support MPEG-2 - this product does seem to place quite a bit of reliance on QT and keeping it up to date.

                 

                I'll carry on using the Adobe product for those things it is useful for (mainly Photoshop Elements) but will think hard before investing more or recommending to others. The Organizer is slick when it works, but can occasionally be clunky and to crash out unaccountably - as a stand alone product, certainly not worth paying for, given 'free' alternatives like Picasa. First impressions of Premiere Elements are that it's less well featured than Corel, which I am likely to continue to use, but I've yet to get into it.

                 

                Rant over, thanks to those who have tried to help!

                • 5. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Unfortunately, life with AV files is not that simple.

                   

                  Besides having about 2000 various CODEC's, within that group, many mfgrs. tweak those CODEC's, for their purposes. This happens about quarterly, so what works today, might not work so well in 3 mos., if one gets a new camera.

                   

                  In that group are the non-camera CODEC's. These are the TechSmith (Camtasia), DivX, Xvid, MKV and many, many more. Those are delivery-only CODEC's, and not meant to be edited in the first place, but that does not stop users from trying, and running into problems.

                   

                  If we were limited to, say 4 CODEC's, and each mfgr. adhered to "standards," then life WOULD be much easier.

                   

                  When a company creates an NLE (Non Linear Editing) program, they must focus on a set of common CODEC's. MS focused on their WMV format w/ its CODEC's for WMM, and Adobe focused on camera CODEC's, limiting those to a smaller sub-set, such as DV-AVI, DVD-compliant MPEG-2, and some flavors of H.264. However, and with many exceptions (some outlined in the linked article above), more can be edited, if the exact and proper CODEC is installed on the system.

                   

                  Many users a lulled into a false sense of security, when they see an AV file with, say the AVI extension. They assume that this is a ubiquitous file, so should be editable. What is overlooked is that many CODEC's can be contained within that AVI wrapper - far too many to enumerate. Recently, some camera mfgrs. have begun wrapping H.264 (commonly seen as MP4, MTS, M2v, etc.) in an AVI wrapper. Neither PrE, nor PrPro does a good job with those "steath" H.264's. Why this is being done is a mystery, but I think that consumers should contact their camera mfgrs., when this is done, and complain. Few consumer camera mfgrs. give a whit to editing the material produced, or if they do, furnish their own NLE to do the job. They assume that the majority of their consumer-base will just want to playback over a TV, or upload un-edited material to YouTube, or similar. They do not bother concerning themselves with the editability.

                   

                  Now, there is one exception to that - Sony, but as they tweak, or develop their special CODEC's, they just take the specs. down the hall to the Sony Vegas department, for implementation. This means that when released, Vegas can usually edit the new Sony CODEC's, but by the time that Adobe, Magix, CyberLink, Pinnacle and others, get those specs, and add in the necessary code, Sony is off creating new CODEC's.

                   

                  You are correct that MPEG-2 has been around for a very long time, however not all MPEG-2's are fully DVD-compliant, and can be problematic. Premiere can usually get around the internal issues in most of those files, like 8-bit 32KHz Audio, but not always. If ALL MPEG-2's were 100% DVD-compatible, life would be easier for all of us. Same with AVI. If all were DV-AVI, life would be simple, and editing easy. It is not going to happen. As a matter of fact, it is getting harder, as each year goes by, thanks to the camera mfgrs., and also other software mfgrs.

                   

                  If I was an Adobe employee, and did nothing but try to handle file issues in the programs, I would have the ultimate job security.

                   

                  I agree that it would be far better for us to help with the aesthetic, or technical work, to create the aesthetics, but that is not the way that it is. Instead, our time is mostly tied up helping people just get the software running on their computers and with the material, that they are trying to edit. That is one reason that Steve has created his Basic Training, and Learning Series of articles, has done the FAQ entries and that I have written so many articles in the Tips & Tricks section. After each of us has typed the same answers myriad times, we just write the article, or create a series of tutorials, to save us the time.

                   

                  It's the same in the Photoshop forum. We'd all rather be helping users create their images, but instead, spend so much time helping people install the program. Most of the time, the problem is that the security settings of their OS gets in the way, or that their computer is not set up for PS (much easier to do, than for video editing, by a long shot), or that they got a bad download, due to firewall problems. Probably 80% of our replies are on installations, where the UAC, or maybe anti-virus software is getting in the way.

                   

                  As for Premiere working perfectly "out of the box," when one has an adequate, well-tuned system, and are ingesting many common file formats, written properly, it does. However, there are millions of variables out there, from CODEC's, to system issues. Things are bit easier on the Mac side-of-the-street, as the equipment is much, much more standard (far fewer options to customize the computer), and the limited number of formats that a Mac can work with. Fewer opportunities for things to be problematic.

                   

                  I wish you luck, and hope that you can find what is inside those MPEG-2 files, that is causing the issues. Most such problems can be "fixed," but one must know exactly what is causing those problems.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
                    GunswingerZZ Level 1

                    Thanks again for your time, and the response.

                     

                    It is so frustrating, because I do NOT want to edit files with dodgy CODECs, just view ones that already exist, and which just about every other piece of software I have will accept and play.

                     

                    New edits using the Adobe software will obviously be done on freshly captured data hopefully conforming to standards it will recognise.

                     

                    To update, following my earlier post, I did a complete reinstall of the whole Abode package, following which Organizer DID accept and catalogue my existing MPEG-2 files.

                     

                    However, on opening Premiere Elements and then attempting to,open and save a project in MPEG-2 format, PE9 went away for a few moments to 'activate components', following which we are now back to square one, ie Organizer crashes whenever it encounters an MPEG-2 file, and the files produced by pe9 give an error warnings in gspot:

                     

                    "Warning: DirectShow crashed while attempting to render this file.

                    This is usually due to damaged, misconfigured, conflicting, or poorly written codec drivers.  It is possible, perhaps even likely, that other media players will crash when they attempt to play this file as well, as most of them will also use DirectShow.  GSpot was able to intercept the crash, and has attempted to identify the codec or filter involved; uninstalling or reinstalling this codec or filter may solve the problem.

                    The codec was tentatively identified as:

                    C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll"

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Elements 9 (+ Organiser 9) and MPEG-2 files
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Direct Show was an older platform, but Adobe has not used it for some time. Do not recall PrE going back to it.

                       

                      Do you, by chance, have FFDShow installed on your computer? It is often included with various CODEC "packs," and often installs, without any notice to the user. It has been known to cause many issues with several Adobe programs. Just thinking here.

                       

                      That might also explain why G-Spot is not able to Render those MPEG-2 files, but possibly not.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt