1 2 Previous Next 43 Replies Latest reply on Oct 13, 2011 4:47 PM by Stan Jones

    Exporting HD to SD for Encore

    FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

      I have segments for a DVD that are currently 1440x1080. I need to export them from Premiere CS5 and scale them down to SD Widescreen to import into Encore to create a standard DVD. I certainly want the quality to be a good as possible. Any suggestions on preferred formats for this kind of export? AVI? H.264? I have a Matrox mini with Max incorporated into my system. I'll be experimenting and would appreciate any and all opinions. Also, am I better off trying to export a sequence from Premiere using AME, or just export clips from Premiere and then import them into my Encore project, which I used to do pre CS5. Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          What I do for AVCHD to SD is export NTSC DV AVI Widescreen http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0

           

          I personally would not use H.264 since as far as I know, that has more compression than AVI

          • 2. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Export using an MPEG2-DVD option.  If you have a CUDA card with hardware acceleration on, or if not and you check the Maximum Quality box in the Export settings, Premiere Pro will do a fine job of scaling the footage down to DVD resolution.

            • 3. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Yes i second Jim's workflow, go straight to mpeg2-dvd.

              • 4. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                Since CS5 and CS5.5 the quality of the my AVCHD scaling to MPEG2-DVD directly from Premiere with MPE Hardware acceleration is really great!

                • 5. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                  FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                  First off, thank you all for your suggestions. I decided to try MPEG-2DVD. Had a learning curve figuring out how to deal with bitrates, but finally got my 1 hr 28 min of clips to fit on 1 DVD. BUT NOW, I've encountered a really weird problem. When I checked the DVD, I received error messages saying there were gaps between a number of the clips. Sure enough, there are gaps between the video tracks of a bunch of clips. I can see where the video ends and the audio extends to the beginning of the next clip. I attempted to shorten the audio in the timeline, but Encore would only let me trim back the audio a short way, not all the way I need to close up the gap. What's puzzling me is why there are gaps in the first place. I double-checked the clips and audio and video both end at the same time - can't figure out why Encore is screwing with me. Have any of you encountered a similar problem? Thanks.

                   

                  Message was edited by: FamilyLegacyVideo

                  • 6. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    Video is measured in frames, usually 24 or 30 per second.  Audio is measured in something much smaller called samples, usually 48,000 per second.  So they don't always exactly match.

                     

                    The solution here is to add only one video asset to an Encore timeline.  Anything you want to be in that timeline, export as a single video clip from Premiere Pro.

                    • 7. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                      FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                      Hi, Jim.

                      Thanks. My concern with putting each clip in a separate timeline is that when I set them up to Play All, during playback there's a bit of a lag when switching from the end of a finished chapter to the beginning of the next chapter. Since the clips are chapters in one documentary I want them to play seamlessly, with only the pause I've built in and not the additional lag. Timing-wise, I'm happiest with having all the clips in one master timeline and then using over rides to link to them from chapter buttons so viewers can watch single chapters. I'm a bit stubborn, so I may fight with this a little bit more and then burn a test DVD anyway to see how it works. Cheers, Steve

                      • 8. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                        Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        If you put multiple videos on one timeline, do not export them to mpeg2 first. Export one big long file.

                         

                        I suggest also bring a couple of them into a test project, using a playlist to combine them, and burn to a dvd to test on multiple dvd players. Are you burning or replicating? The pause can vary by player.

                        • 9. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          I'm happiest with having all the clips in one master timeline

                           

                          That's fine.  Just do that in Premiere Pro instead of Encore, and export out one long file.

                          • 10. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                            FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                            Ah, but the rub is if I do that and want separate timelines for chapters, I double  the file size I'm trying to squeeze onto the DVD. I've been trying to get timelines and playlists to play nice for the past couple of hours and I'm admitting defeat for tonight. On to victory tomorrow.

                            • 11. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              You don't add the same asset to different timelines, you put it on one timeline.  That's the way to make this work.  And simply adding chapters to a timeline won't double your size in Encore. 

                              • 12. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                You're absolutely right - and that's how I had the project set up before I ran into my "video gap in the timeline" problem. I was referring to Option 2, that of exporting the show as one file, which would be what would play when the Play All button was clicked - as well as importing clips of the individual chapters, which would have their own timelines and be triggered by the buttons for each chapter. I finally chose option 3, to import all the chapters as separate clips and timelines, then create a playlist for the play all function and then link the chapter buttons to the individual timelines. I decided I could live with the extra second it takes to progress from the end of one chapter to the beginning of the next using this method. I think I really have the hang of things now - and I enjoyed playing with the color menus and modifying the button highlight shapes. Thanks to everyone who commented.

                                 

                                By the way, one final question. When you export your clips, do you prefer the PCM or Dolby for audio? I exported using PCM, which sounds fine, but also plan to test Dolby. I noticed when changing between the presets in Premiere's audio panel that Dolby doesn't list stereo as an attribute.

                                • 13. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                  I finally chose option 3, to import all the chapters as separate clips and timelines, then create a playlist for the play all function and then link the chapter buttons to the individual timelines.

                                  That is now one of the two most common methods, the other being a single timeline with chapters and single-chapter chapter playlists for chapter play. But Encore doesn't do chapter playlists for bluray, so I think that makes your workflow preferred when doing both disk types.

                                   

                                  I decided I could live with the extra second it takes to progress from the end of one chapter to the beginning of the next using this method.

                                  Did you test this on a burned disk? Curious what you are actually seeing in the final version.

                                   

                                  By the way, one final question. When you export your clips, do you prefer the PCM or Dolby for audio? I exported using PCM, which sounds fine, but also plan to test Dolby. I noticed when changing between the presets in Premiere's audio panel that Dolby doesn't list stereo as an attribute.

                                  The stereo is there. I'm still stuck in the habit (developed when Dolby was an extra plugin for Premiere) of exporting PCM and transcoding to dolby in Encore (but using AME there). I don't think it matters.

                                  • 14. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    exporting the show as one file, which would be what would play when the Play All button was clicked

                                     

                                    That is the correct method here.

                                     

                                     

                                    as well as importing clips of the individual chapters, which would have their own timelines and be triggered by the buttons for each chapter

                                     

                                    That is the incorrect method here, and will double the size on disk.

                                     

                                    With a single export and a single timeline, you do not need individual chapters in their own timeline in order to play just one chapter.  As you noticed, that's just a waste of space.  What you do is have the Play All button linked to the timeline, and each chapter button linked to a chapter.  If you want the video to continue after each chapter, do nothing else.  If you want the video to return to the menu after each chapter, set up an Override for the chapter buttons.  This will give you the results you're looking for without wasting any space on disk.

                                     

                                     

                                    I finally chose option 3, to import all the chapters as separate clips and timelines, then create a playlist for the play all function and then link the chapter buttons to the individual timelines.

                                     

                                    That is also not the best method here.  For one, you have the slight delay between timelines.  Also, it doesn't allow the viewer to scan back past the current chapter.

                                     

                                    One export with all chapters in a single Encore timeline.  A Play All button linked to the timeline.  Chapter buttons linked to chapters.  Button overrides if you need them.  This is the normal and most efficient method of DVD authoring for what you wish to accomplsh.

                                    • 15. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                      FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                      Stan,

                                      I did burn a disk. M original intent was to have each chapter fade to black, then we sit in black for 1 sec, then start the next chapter. With the playlist method I used, we sit in black a little longer as during the transition from one chapter timeline to the next - about an additional two seconds. I can hear the player searching during this time.

                                      • 16. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                        FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                        One export with all chapters in a single Encore timeline.  A Play All button linked to the timeline.  Chapter buttons linked to chapters.  Button overrides if you need them.  This is the normal and most efficient method of DVD authoring for what you wish to accomplsh.

                                        Jim,

                                        As I mentioned, that's the method I'd prefer, but I was tripped up when I exported each chapter as Mpeg2-DVD and the Encore imported the clips with video and audio durations that didn't match. For future reference, are you suggesting to create the entire show on one timeline in Premiere, then add chapter markers and export the entire timeline as an Mpeg2-DVD file, then in Encore link the chapter buttons to the chapter markers? FYI, one of my experiments was to import Premiere sequences into Encore and have Encore transcode them, but I wasn't happy with the video quality. I also tried exporting a sequence as an AVI, importing that into Encore and having Encore transcode, but wasn't happy with the video quality there, either.

                                        • 17. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                          are you suggesting to create the entire show on one timeline in Premiere, then add chapter markers and export the entire timeline as an Mpeg2-DVD file, then in Encore link the chapter buttons to the chapter markers?

                                           

                                          Yes, exactly.

                                          • 18. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                            FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                            I just tested the entire timeline method. I put all the chapters together on one timeline in Premiere and then applied Encore chapter markers to each. I then imported the timeline into Encore, and had Encore do the transcoding. Even though I set up the transcode values to be pretty identical to what I used when I originally exported the clips as Mpeg2-DVD from Premiere, the quality was not nearly as good - and it took much longer to render this way. I'm going to try one more variation - exporting the entire timeline as Mpeg2-DVD from Premiere, then importing the one long Mpeg2 clip into Encore and then applying chapter markers in Encore. I'll let you know how that works out.

                                            • 19. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                              Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Apply the chapter markers in Premiere. That way, when it encodes, it will set GOP boundaries there. Then a) they should appear in Encore or b) if they don't, the boundaries will be where you want them.

                                               

                                              If you don't, you may find that when you place a chapter marker in Encore, Encore will move it slightly.

                                               

                                              Did you try the navigation you are planning?

                                              • 20. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                Thanks, Stan. I applied the Encore chapter markers in Premiere and then exported the timeline as Mpeg2-DVD. Unfortunately, Encore didn't recognize the markers or the boundaries. So I went ahead and set chapter markers in Encore. I had to adjust most of them a bit because of the changes created by the GOP boundaries, but I managed to get them all close enough to where I needed them to be. I then set up my navigation (no end actions on the chapters; override on the main timeline containing all the chapters so they would play one after another and then after the last one the main menu would reappear; and then links from the chapter buttons to each chapter, with an override on each button designed to return to the same chapter button on the chapters menu after the chapter finished). I tested everything in Encore and it worked like a dream. So I burned a disk and tested it in both a standard DVD player and a Blu-Ray player. Wouldn't you know, neither of them recognizes the chapter overrides. So I'm at a loss at this point. I think I'm just going to have to stick with importing the chapters as individual timelines and using a playlist to sequence them. Not my preferred method, but at least I can get all the clips and buttons to work that way; the trade-off being the extra time it takes to sequence from one timeline to the next in the playlist. If you've got any idea why the players won't recognize the overrides, I'm all ears. Thanks again.

                                                • 21. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  Encore didn't recognize the markers

                                                   

                                                  That's not normal.  (You did name the chapters in Premiere Pro, right?)

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  override on the main timeline containing all the chapters so they would play one after another

                                                   

                                                  That's not right.  Chapters will play one after another by default.  You set the override on the chapter buttons (in the menu), but only if you don't want them to play one after another.

                                                  • 22. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                    FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                    Hi, Jim.

                                                    Yep, I did name the Encore markers in Premiere Pro - but the markers didn't carry over when I exported to Mpeg. I was mistaken in one thing: When I checked the chapter end actions in preview in Encore, using the end action control, the correct end action resulted. I found out that in preview, when I played a chapter using a chapter button and then just let the chapter play, without using the end action button, the end action I desired did not result, and the next clip in the timeline played. Right now I have a single Mpeg in the Encore timeline. I've assigned an end action to the timeline that brings up the main menu when the timeline ends. I've added an Encore chapter marker at the start of each chapter. None of the chapters has an end action. If I do assign an end action to a chapter, it overrides the end action for the timeline. So in order to get the end action I want when I play chapters using the chapter buttons, I assigned overrides to those buttons. However, those overrides are being ignored when the clips play. The chapters all play perfectly when I select the play all function to play the entire timeline. It's just the end actions for the individual chapters that's the problem.  Cheers, Steve

                                                    • 23. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      That's weird about the markers.  They should come in.  That they didn't makes me suspect something is amiss.

                                                       

                                                      Another thing you're doing incorrectly is setting end action on chapters.  You don't do that.  You set the End Action for the timeline as a whole, and set Overrides on Menu buttons.  (Can't stress that part enough.  MENU BUTTONS)

                                                       

                                                      In the top left of the default work space, go to the Menu tab.  In the bottom half, you'll see your chapters listed (assuming they're properly linked to the menu).  Click on one.  Now over in the top right of the default work space, you'll see a Properties tab.  In there you'll see an option for Override.  Set that to where you want it to go after that chapter.

                                                       

                                                      Do NOT set an Override for the Play All button.  It'll play through as normal.

                                                       

                                                      Take note that it is possible to set Overrides on both chapters and on menu buttons.  You want to make sure you're setting them on the MENU BUTTONS.

                                                       

                                                      If the above process isn't working, then we now have two things that don't work, but should.  (Chapter markers and overrides.)

                                                      • 24. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                        FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                        Actually, I'm doing exactly what you describe. I have no end actions on the chapters and the only overrides are on menu buttons. No override on the Play All button and an end action on the Play All timeline. Just to be clear, in this latest instance, I added the Encore chapter markers to my Premiere timeline and then exported the timeline as an Mpeg. I did not open Encore and import the Premiere timeline. I tried that method once, and the markers came in, but the final transcode quality was unacceptable. So short of uninstalling and then reinstalling CS5 in the slim hope that'll make a difference, I'm not sure what else to do. Thanks for all your advice.

                                                        • 25. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Preview may not produce reliable results. At this point build to a folder and to a test DVD+RW and see how it performs.

                                                           

                                                          Overrides can be tricky, and that is why I think the prevailing sentiment on the Encore forum is not to use them, now that chapter playlists are available.

                                                           

                                                          But they appear to be the only way to get around brief gaps in chapter playlists.

                                                          • 26. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                            FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                            Stan,

                                                            Based on my most recent experiences with overrides, I'd have to agree with you - although I'd prefer to use overrides, if they worked. I'll be avoiding chapter playlists, because I understand they're not recognized by Blu-Ray players. So for me it'll be a combination of separate timelines and playlists. Thanks for your help.

                                                            • 27. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                              Shadreck Rukweza Level 2

                                                              You can also use the dynamic link feature. After completing your editing in Premiere Pro create your chapter markers in Premiere and then in Encore go to File/AdObe dynamic link/Import Premiere sequence, and it will do all the scaling for you, saving lots of space on your HDD, because you do not need to export the long and huge file from Premiere or AME.

                                                              • 28. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                I'd prefer to use overrides, if they worked.

                                                                 

                                                                That they don't, along with Chapter Markers, makes me think something got smurfed with your install.

                                                                • 29. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                  FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                                  Thanks. I'll consider (gulp) a reinstall.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                    FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                                    A final note: I uninstalled and then reinstalled the CS5 suite. I exported a Premiere sequence with Encore chapter markers as an Mpeg2-DVD clip, then imported the clip as a timeline into Encore. The markers do not carry over to the Encore timeline. So exporting a program as one clip with Encore chapter markers and using overrides is not an option for me. The chapter markers do carry over if I use Dynamic Link to import the Premiere sequence into Encore, but since I wasn't happy with the transcode quality, that's not the technique for me, either. I'll need to go with multiple timelines and playlists in Encore. Not the technique I was wanting to use because of the extra time the playlist method adds to the transitions from the end of one clip to the beginning of the next, but I get the best quality that way and the navigation works like I want it to. I have moved to the stage of acceptance and am at peace.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                      The markers do not carry over to the Encore timeline.

                                                                       

                                                                      Curious.  You are naming the DVD chapter markers inside of PP?  (Not the same as sequence markers, by the way.)  You do get an .xmpses file in the export folder?

                                                                       

                                                                      (On a side note, even if they don't carry over, there nothing from stopping you added them manually in Encore.  As I use an external transcoder for my projects, I have to do this myself.  The work flow I described is still the best option.)

                                                                      • 32. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                        FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                                        Yes to both questions - Encore chapter markers are named and an .xmpses file is created upon export. By the way, I have also tried manually adding chapter markers in Encore, but during playback the overrides for the chapters are being ignored, as I described in an earlier post.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          Overrides are tricky and can seriously smurf your navigation, even under the best circumstances.  With the inclusion of chapter playlists and chapter end actions in Encore 2.0 and later, it's almost never necessary to use overrides at all.

                                                                           

                                                                          I didn't read all the previous 31 posts, so I'll ask: are you absolutely sure you need overrides?  If yes, then please post a screen shot of your Flowchart panel.  It might hold a clue as to why the overrides aren't working like you expect them to work.

                                                                           

                                                                          -Jeff

                                                                          • 34. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                            the overrides for the chapters are being ignored

                                                                             

                                                                            You tested that on a burned disk, not just within Encore?

                                                                            • 35. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                              FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                                              Jeff,

                                                                              It's not that I absolutely need the overrides, but I'd prefer to use them - that's because when I set up the individual timelines in a playlist, there's more of a lag between the end of one timeline and the beginning of the next than I'd like. But - I can live with it. Here's an excerpt from the Flowchart panel. I've blurred my client's name for privacy purposes.

                                                                              Flowchart.jpg

                                                                              • 36. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                                FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                                                Jim,

                                                                                Yes, I burned a disk and that's where I first noticed the problem. When I previewed the project, I used the end action button to see if the overrides worked - and they appeared to be fine. After I found the overrides not working on the DVD I burned, I went back to the Encore project and found that if I played the timeline without using the end action control, the overrides didn't work there either. So I was being mislead by the end action control.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                  I have moved to the stage of acceptance and am at peace.

                                                                                  And do you have a final disk yet?

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                                    If you don't have end actions on the individual chapters, then the only time a button override will function is when the end action for the linked timeline is reached -- the chapters are ignored because an override only affects end actions and the chapters don't have end actions.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    So you want end actions on each of your chapters that link to the next chapter so that Play All will work, and you want the chapter menu buttons to override the chapter end actions and send the audience back to the chapter menu.  Don't set an end action on the last chapter though -- that's what the timeline end action is for.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    -Jeff

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Exporting HD to SD for Encore
                                                                                      FamilyLegacyVideo Level 1

                                                                                      Yep - the disk is in the client's hands for approval right now. Thanks!

                                                                                      Stan Jones wrote:

                                                                                       

                                                                                      And do you have a final disk yet?

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