13 Replies Latest reply on Sep 27, 2011 6:05 AM by Peter Spier

    Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?

    Miguel D Moura

      Hello

       

      I created a simple element in Illustrator with a Square and a Word Text.

      I used Copy Paste to import it to InDesign.

       

      In InDesign when I select it and resize it both the frame and content are resized.

       

      I tried everything I could think to resize only the frame but not the content.

       

      1 - How can I resize only the frame?

      2 - Can I set a padding in the frame?

      3 - Can I make the content centered in the frame?

       

      Thank You,

      Miguel

        • 1. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Probably better to Place the art than to paste it.

           

          To resize a frame without affecting the content, either use the Selection tool (black arrow) to drag one of the sizing handles, or select the frame, then select one of the transformation proxy points in the left end of the Control panel (or Transformation panel) and enter a value in either the width or height fields (NOT the horizontal or veritical scale fields -- they sacle the content with the frame) and the frame dimension will change, leaving the selected point stationary.

          • 2. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
            Miguel D Moura Level 1

            "To resize a frame without affecting the content, either use the Selection tool (black arrow) to drag one of the sizing handles."

             

            That is what I did but both get resized.

            I tried to use the white arrow but that is for content.

             

            "or select the frame, then select one of the transformation proxy points in the left end of the Control panel (or Transformation panel) and enter a value in either the width or height fields (NOT the horizontal or veritical scale fields"

             

            I also did that. Selected the frame with the black arrow and then changed the width and height but everything changes.

             

            I have been googling for it but everything I try resizes both content and frame.

            • 3. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
              Miguel D Moura Level 1

              "Probably better to Place the art than to paste it."

               

              I also did that but I got something really strange:

               

              My rounded corner square gets really rough outline in InDesign.

               

              Any idea why?

               

              Thank You,

              Miguel

              • 4. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Miguel D Moura wrote:

                 

                My rounded corner square gets really rough outline in InDesign.

                 

                Any idea why?

                By default, ID uses a fairly low resolution preview for placed art, and this results in poor display of vectors. To get a hi-res preview you need to change the Display Performance settings: View > Display Performance > High Quality Display. I prefer to work in this mode at all times, but I have a powerful system that can handle the increased workload without bogging down. If you find your system is also capable of working in High Quality Display mode, set that in the preferences with nothing open and new files will use the better preview by default, but you will still have to change old files. You can allow object-level display to change the preview of selected objects, as well.

                 

                Back to your sizing problem...

                 

                I'm beginning to suspect you weren't clear on what you were doing, or perhaps don't understand the differences between ID an Illustrator. In ID, the term "Frame" refers to a container into which content, either text or graphical, is placed. I suspect you meant that your "square" was meant to surround your other artwork like a border or picture frame, and you want to resize that without changing the size of the art it surrounds. Is that correct?

                 

                If so, there  is probably no need for that element to be drawn in Illustrator (though you can). Frames in ID can have both a fill and a stroke, like objects drawn with the Pen or shape tools in Illy (but only one of each, and no Illy-style patterns), as well as the placed content which may or may not obscure the fill. If you are drawing a simple rounded corner border, you can simply apply a rounded corner to the frame (Object > Corner Options...) and a stroke of whatever weight and color you like.

                 

                If you are bringing in this border from Ilustrator it can only be sized independently if it IS independent. When you paste multple objects from Illustrator they will be grouped in ID. You can either copy and paste as separate objects, ungroup them to work with them individually, or use the direct select tool to select one, then switch to the selection tool to bring up the sizing handles.

                 

                Keep in mind that if you scale a pasted path your rounded corners will scale also, and distort if the scaling is uneven ( as they would in Illustrator). ID's corner effects are "live" and will maintain the radius down to the point where two corners are close enough that they should make a half-circle. You never get that true half-circle, however, using the corner effects due to a very small straight area as the curve meets the straight edge (this is a major complaint for some users), so if you need that you would have to build the shape as you might in Illustrator using either the Pen tool or Pathfinder (or paste your Illustrator path).

                • 5. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                  Miguel D Moura Level 1

                  I changed to "High Quality Display" and now the images look fine.

                   

                  How I see the frame in InDesign:

                   

                  When I Copy / Paste a vector from Illustrator to InDesign a frame is created to hold that content. The same happens for text and any element in InDesign.

                   

                  To select the frame I use the black arrow. To select the content I use the white arrow. And I also have the Frame Fitting Options.

                   

                  Basically what I am doing a Copy / Paste of an Illustrator vector with dimensions 120 x 40.

                  What I get in InDesign, if I am not mistaken, is the content inside a frame with dimension 120x40.

                   

                  Now in InDesign I am trying to resize that frame to 200 x 80 but keeping its content with the same size (120 x 40).

                   

                  But everything I try resizes the content to. My test content is only a Text and a Round Square.

                   

                  So I tried the following alternative:

                  1 - Create empty frame in InDesign;

                  2 - Place the Illustrator file in that frame;

                  3 - Resize the frame using black arrow.

                   

                  This works fine. I am able to resize the frame without resizing the content.

                   

                  But now I get another problem:

                  I am not able to edit the square or text inside InDesign. Even using the white arrow. They select as a single element.

                   

                  This is strange because if I Copy / Paste an image from internet to InDesign I can resize the frame without resizing the image using the black arrow as expected.

                  • 6. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                    Miguel D Moura Level 1

                    I think I got it:

                     

                    1 - I created an empty frame in InDesign.

                    2 - I selected the vector in Illustrator and did Copy.

                    3 - I wen to InDesign and selected the Frame and did "Paste Into ALT-CTRL-V" instead of CTRL-V.

                     

                    Now I get the content inside my frame and I am able to resize the frame ...

                     

                    I think that when using CTRL-V I don't get a frame ... I think this was the problem.

                    • 7. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      Miguel D Moura wrote:

                       

                      When I Copy / Paste a vector from Illustrator to InDesign a frame is created to hold that content. The same happens for text and any element in InDesign.

                       

                      Actually, no. When you paste  from Illustrator what you get is either editable paths (if the art is simple enough) or a PDF. If you get paths, those are the same as if you had drawn them directly in ID with the pen tool. When you select them, you see the bounding box highlighted, not a frame. If you want a frame object in addition to the pasted paths you would need to create that in ID and then "paste into." If you have multiple paths, they would need to be grouped in order to paste into (but they are going to be grouped already if copied from Illustrator).

                       

                       

                       

                      So I tried the following alternative:

                      1 - Create empty frame in InDesign;

                      2 - Place the Illustrator file in that frame;

                      3 - Resize the frame using black arrow.

                       

                      This works fine. I am able to resize the frame without resizing the content.

                       

                      But now I get another problem:

                      I am not able to edit the square or text inside InDesign. Even using the white arrow. They select as a single element.


                      Right, linked content requires that you edit the original art in the appropriate editor.

                       

                       

                      This is strange because if I Copy / Paste an image from internet to InDesign I can resize the frame without resizing the image using the black arrow as expected.

                       

                      Vectors are treated differently from raster images. ID cannot manipulate pixels, and has no way to draw them directly, so rasters must be contained in a frame. ID does have the ability to draw and edit vector paths (and the reason you see frame fitting options is probably that any path in ID can be used as a container for other content).

                       

                      I have to say, though, that if all you have is a simple text object and a surrounding round corner frame I can't see any reason to create this in Illustrator at all, especially if it needs to be editable. If it already exists, that's fine, and you can certainly paste the paths to make them editable in ID. The downside is that pasted content is isolated from the same content in other documents. Whenever I've thought it would save time to copy paths from Illustrator and paste them into ID so I could do my editing there it has ALWAYS returned to haunt me later in increased work when some time later I need to re-use those paths in other documents and find some minor edit needs to be done over and over in all of the files where they are used. Editing in Illustrator may be a bit of a nuisance, but it's edit in one place and update many at one time.

                      • 8. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                        Grant H Level 4

                        yes but: copy/paste into will embed the object. Ok: fine, if thats what you want. but if you want to edit the graphic later on? And what if you have a 200 page doc? ...

                         

                        there are times when paste int is fine workflow, but explore placing the graphic too. Links are your freind

                         

                        G

                        • 9. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          Grant H wrote:

                           

                          yes but: copy/paste into will embed the object.

                          Yes, in the sense that there will be no link, but that's true for any paste operation. That's only a problem, though, with raster objects that you might want to edit. ID can edit pasted vectors, even when you paste into.

                          • 10. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                            Grant H Level 4

                            ye ye: thats why you Com Pro, You explain in great detail... I do tend to skip a bit...

                            • 11. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              Grant H wrote:

                               

                              ye ye: thats why you Com Pro, You explain in great detail... I do tend to skip a bit...

                              Leaving things out isn't really helpful for the people asking the questions...

                              • 12. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                                Grant H Level 4

                                Of course: its not intentional! Just forget that there are users out there that may nt know the elemental stuff.

                                • 13. Re: Resize Only Frame. Please, how to do it?
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  Best to presume that's the case, unless you are familair with the user who is posting and know otherwise. It's always better to err on the side of too much information here in the forum. Your responses may also help other unknown users who find the thread insearch of an answer in the future.

                                   

                                  My mother told me it was easier to form good habits thatn to break bad ones.