25 Replies Latest reply on Mar 13, 2017 1:58 PM by Szalam

    mask shapes big problem

    francopolato

      Hello! I'm new in this forum.

       

      I'm used to work with after effects for long time, and I have ever had a serius problem with mask shape.

       

      If I create a mask shape and I set a key frame for that mask it works correctly, but If I change the time speed or reverse the chronological order of the layer's mask shape then my mask shape starts to have problems. First the mask starts to be not synchonized, then if I precompose the layer I did time modifications The new  layer shows significant differences between the original  time modified layer's mask shape and its precomposed one.

       

      Now I'm In trouble with a great adobe after effects project in full swing, I'm supoosed to interrupt it till I will resolve the problem.

       

      I really hope to have been clear since I'm not native English. In case it won't be comprehesible I will gladly explain it again with other words.

        • 1. Re: mask shapes big problem
          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

          It's hard to understand what problem you're encountering.

           

          Upload a project that demonstrates the problem, and I'll have a look.

          • 2. Re: mask shapes big problem
            francopolato Level 1

            Ho can I upload a project? in the mean time I'll send the project by e-mail.

            • 3. Re: mask shapes big problem
              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

              There are many services on the Web that allow you to upload files for sharing. Use one of those.

              • 4. Re: mask shapes big problem
                Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Just a screenshot of your project will help. It sounds to me like your masks are not being sent to the pre-comp. Make sure you choose Move All Attributes

                • 5. Re: mask shapes big problem
                  francopolato Level 1

                  I can reassure you the precomposed layer don't contain the mask, I moved all the atributes. I will find a way to upload my project on internet so you will able to see clearly what I'm talking about

                  • 6. Re: mask shapes big problem
                    francopolato Level 1

                    however for now that's the screenshot:

                     

                    mask shape screenshot.png

                    • 7. Re: mask shapes big problem
                      Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Your footage is interlaced and you have not separated fields. When you apply time remapping you're getting a funky field. Separate fields, check your masks by placing the masked layer in a 50fps comp, fix any problems, then put the layer back in the precomp and everything should be fine.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: mask shapes big problem
                        francopolato Level 1

                        I can say I have resolved my problem.

                         

                        However I keep not understanding why it happends, and I wonder why you advised me to create a 50fps layer ( and not a whatever other value) for placing the mask layer. By the way 50 fps wasn't enough I had to set the layer to 99 fps in order to delete completely the errors.

                         

                        Anyway thank you very much for the help.

                        • 9. Re: mask shapes big problem
                          TheFosterHouse Level 1

                          I'm actually having this problem as well, but my footage isn't interlaced. I have 1080p 23.976 xdcam footage. I Rotoed out a person in a precomp and placed that comp in my main comp timeline. I Time remapped that precomp to about 60% of it's original duration. This resulted in the masks inside the precomp to not line up with the source footage from the same precomp. I tried Collapsing the layer (Continued rasterization), but it didn't change anything. It looks like time remapping or changing the duration of a comp layer with nested masks affects masks differently than footage regardless of if the comp is collapsed or not.

                          • 10. Re: mask shapes big problem
                            Dave LaRonde Level 6

                            Did you remove the pulldown from the footage before importing it into AE?

                            • 11. Re: mask shapes big problem
                              TheFosterHouse Level 1

                              No, the footage I have is progressive.

                              • 12. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                Dave LaRonde Level 6

                                Before you say for certain that it's 23.976 fps, you should double check the frame rate in AE's project window by highlighting it.  If you discover it's still 29.97, you have to remove pulldown.

                                • 13. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                  TheFosterHouse Level 1

                                  oh yeah, the source is definitely 23.976. all comps that the footage is used in are 23.976 as well. triple checked them all. Source is XDCAM EX 1080p24 footage at 23.976fps shot with a Sony F3.

                                  • 14. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                    Dave LaRonde Level 6

                                    Oh, then you're trying to do too much at once.  Prerender the roto footage in a lossless codec, reimport and THEN time remap.

                                    • 15. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                      TheFosterHouse Level 1

                                      I shouldn't have to do that. The main issue is that the masks aren't being rendered in the proper rendering order even with collapse transformations inactive. The footage is being time remapped then the masks are being time remapped, then the masks are being applied to the footage irregardless of if the precomp is collapsed. If the precomp was collapsed, then I'd understand why it's being rendered like this, but the masks should be applied to the footage in the nested comp then the time remapping of the precomp in the main timeline should occur. It's not behaving the way discribed here:

                                      http://help.adobe.com/en_US/aftereffects/cs/using/WS064964FC-424C-4e5a-A5C3-2160B3DFBCA4a. html

                                      "If a composition contains other compositions nested within it, the nested composition is rendered before other layers in the containing composition."

                                       

                                      It looks like Time remapping is being applied to each object inside the nested comp and then the layers and objects in that comp are being rendered together.

                                       

                                      Just to be sure we're on the same page; here's my layout:

                                      AE_PrecompTimeremap_Issue.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                        Dave LaRonde Level 6

                                        I know you say you shouldn't have to do that, but perhaps you may have to do that.  The reason: it's XDCam, which records in a long-gop codec, I believe; I think it's in something like an mp4 wrapper.  I don't think AE is handling the footage properly in your project.

                                         

                                        I understand that Adobe says it's solved the riddle of AE using long-gop codecs, but I remain a little gun-shy on the issue, particularly in situations like yours.  I'd still prerender the roto work in a lossless codec and then mess with the timing on the resulting footage.  It's certainly a workaround, I'll grant you that.  But you wouldn't lose any time by using it, and then you can ask why AE didn't work as advertised after the project's in the can and the pressure's off.

                                        • 17. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                          TheFosterHouse Level 1

                                          That's what I was afraid of. I'll try transcoding the original source to to a lossless codec and report back if that fixes the issue in AE.

                                           

                                          Thanks Dave.

                                          • 18. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                            Dave LaRonde Level 6

                                            Transcoding will certainly work, but I'm not sure if it's necessary if you do the prerender as recommended.

                                            • 19. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                              TheFosterHouse Level 1

                                              Transcoded original footage to ProRes4444, replaced source and this masking issue is still present. That means that this is a rendering order issue. Pre-Rendering is indeed the only solution as of now, but that severely limits flexibility to changes. Bug report away!

                                              • 20. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                                Dave LaRonde Level 6

                                                TheFosterHouse wrote:

                                                Pre-Rendering is indeed the only solution as of now, but that severely limits flexibility to changes. Bug report away!

                                                 

                                                Two words come to mind: "mountain" and "molehill".  I doubt it's as "severe" as you claim.

                                                 

                                                If you want to use this trick on a new clip, you'd have to do the roto work over anyway, which is the really time-consuming part.

                                                If you want to re-time the existing clip, you'd have to do the retiming work over anyway, so that prerendered clip doesn't slow you down at all.

                                                 

                                                The only limitation I see is that you can't do both in one render, which is no big deal in my book. 

                                                 

                                                When you've run AE version 3.1 (not CS3) on a state-of-the-art PowerMac running OS 8.6, replete with 512 MB RAM, a single 256 mHz processor and 40 whole gigs of storage, where doing effects for 10 seconds of standard-definition video required an overnight render -- better not make a mistake! -- these sort of laments are pretty irrelevant.

                                                 

                                                Yes, AE isn't working as billed.  Yes, you should file a bug report, and I'm glad to learn you're doing so. 

                                                But in the grand scheme of things, there are far worse problems you could have.

                                                • 21. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                                  TheFosterHouse Level 1

                                                  yup, that's what I started with too! Except my Mac was 266Mghz and my HDD was only a whopping 4Gb! ah yes, the days of the beige Mac. good times. I remember having to take my HDD out and install it in a friend's brand new G4 just so I could get a project to render, and it still took over 14 hours.

                                                   

                                                  The "severity" i mentioned comes from limiting how fast I can make a change. I used to pre render shots, but it bit me pretty hard a few times due to random notes and changes from clients and directors. I keep it to a minimum to stay flexible. When a client is breathing down your neck, I don't want to have to take the time to pre render again to show them what their changes will look like. Rendering is A LOT faster than it used to be, but so is the turnaround time. Making After Effects more effecient, makes me more effecient.

                                                  • 22. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                                    cdertschei Level 1

                                                    Just tested a similar problem. I guess the problem is, that - when time remapping the sub-comp,  AE has to jump to the nearest frame in the source movie, but does a perfect (sub-frame) interpolation on the mask layer.
                                                    If you put a adjustment layer on top of your mask layer and apply the Posterize Time effect (set to the same framerate of the comp and the source-movie), the mask layer is locked to that framerate and the masking is correct, even after timeremapping.

                                                    • 23. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                                      helenp72868307

                                                      YESS!!!!! THANK YOU @cgd@dx3.com !!!!!!!!

                                                      I was struggling with this for hours!!!!

                                                      Kudos!!

                                                      • 24. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                                        Irishspacemonk

                                                        Your attitude is the problem with Adobe right now. There's a problem.

                                                        • 25. Re: mask shapes big problem
                                                          Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Irishspacemonk  wrote

                                                           

                                                          Your attitude is the problem with Adobe right now. There's a problem.

                                                          Are you talking to Todd? If so, I didn't see anything Todd said as having an attitude. I just see him politely asking for more information.

                                                          Also, he doesn't work for Adobe anymore.