18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 21, 2013 11:39 AM by CoSA_DaveS

    Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?

    TomLowe

      Is Rolling Shutter Ripple redcution on by default in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?  Can I turn it off?

       

      I am having some strange results trying to stabilize some night-time astro timelapse sequences I shot from a moving car.  There seems to be some warping and "zooming" of parts of my frame, regardless of which stabilization options I choose -- motion, no motion, scale-crop-rotate, subspace, etc.  I've tried every combination possible, including the various border options.  The only thing I can think of, at this point, is that the Rolling Shutter correction function might be struggling to deal with frames shot from a moving car at 4/10ths of a second at night.  Is there any way to turn off the rolling shutter compensation?

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Rolling Shutter compensation is always on when you're using Subspace Warp, but if you're having problems you can roll down the Advanced Tab select enhanced and select Detailed Analysis. It will take longer but it will fix most problems.

           

          You could also select something other than Subspace Warp. This should turn off Rolling Shutter Ripple reduction.

           

          Screen Shot 2011-10-07 at 11.54.09 PM.png

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
            TomLowe Level 1

            Well, I tried that, and it doesn't seem to help.  I feel like the problem here, potentially, is that I am unable to deselect "Scale" as a method of stabilization.

             

            AE-problem.jpg

             

            What seems to be happening in all my stabilized renders is some kind of constant zooming in and out, making the whole render seem warped and surreal, like I'm on acid or something.  This happens whether I am using Subspace warp, Pos-Scale-Rot, whatever.

             

            Is there any way I can choose only Position and Rotation for stabilization, but not Scale? 

            • 3. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
              TomLowe Level 1

              Okay, after days of trying every combination of options under the sun, I feel I have pin-pointed the problem: users need the ability to uncheck "Scale" in the Warp Stablizer "Methods" pull-down.  There should be an option for only Postion & Rotation, not Scale.

               

              I tried this same render using the old-school tracker/stablizer in AE CS5.5, and it stablized the same shot flawlessly.

               

              no-scale.jpg

               

              Is this something that can be altered deeper in the menu, or fixed?  I have dozens of shots that need to be stablized, but almost none of them will work with these current pull-down options in in Warp.


              Thanks!

              • 4. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                troychurch Adobe Employee

                Tom,

                We hear you. When we designed this we didn't put all the possible combinations into the Stabilize method (for various reasons).  But your "Position and Rotation only" method is what we are hearing as the next-most-needed option. For now, I'm glad the old-school method is giving you the results you need. Know that we're working on making the Warp Stabilizer even better.

                • 5. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                  TomLowe Level 1

                  Thanks, Troy.  So I'm not the only one having this problem?

                  • 6. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                    troychurch Adobe Employee

                    I've heard of a few similar issues, but not too many honestly.

                    • 7. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                      kieransteele

                      I think I actually have the same problem. I need to be able to stabilize without scaling, as I think that is where my resulting footage is getting a scale/zoom wobble. For me my unmastery of the old tracker I suspect is keeping me from getting good results.

                       

                      It works in photoshop using auto align layers, but it has a much harder time with hundreds of 5000x2000 files and takes much longer than after effects. I will be trying again with 16gb ram instead of 8gb and see if I can get through without crashes.

                       

                      In my case,  year long footage from a PTZ camera for timelapse of an airport construction. The 25m pole shook a little in the wind, and as it was wide 3x2=6 images stitched together, the camera had to autofocus as it was also taking some other shots at different zoom lengths (I am presuming this or a firmware issue with zoom lengths has caused some variation in scale).

                       

                      I pre-stitched them in PTGUI. The resulting files I brought into after effects. The first time I brought them in via quicktime pro at 1920x1080. The automated results using "no movement" and "postion, scale, rotation" or even "perspective" worked incredibly well, and I bought the product.

                       

                      Next time I brought the full rez files directly into after effects, processed them, and noticed the scale wobble. Looking back at the HD files, I can now just see the wobble, so I suspect it gets worse the bigger the res.

                       

                      I tried bringing higher res back in via a qt movie instead of files, same results, tiny wobble at 1920, big wobble at 5000x2000ish. I've tried other codecs, all sorts of things. I'd like to keep them at full res so I can do some pans and zooms on the lovely 5k image going into video with other footage, though the eventual post edit output will be 1920x1080 max.

                       

                      I think what I might need is the above example with the old tracker, and some kind of perspective corner pin, or a stabilse and then a 2nd layer of corner pin. Something. But I really am beyond my depth as to what exactly I need to do to get the old tracker to dance in this example. Being a construction site, I have very few points to work with over a year that don't change that are the right luminance or saturation differences, or small enough points etc.

                       

                      Such a shame the new tracker works so perfectly at lower res, and I think its the scale thing messing me up. I am guessing that slight scale variation is one of those difficult things to deal with.

                       

                      There is a pan difference at one point over time. So maybe if there is a way I can layer two warp stabilizers? Get one to do positon and rotation, then use an old school tracker to deal with scale?

                       

                      Can you layer them like that, and whats the best option to use just to scale, I guess opposite of Tom Lowe's last post. Stablise scale only? Track type corner point? How many points should I expect once I get the right combination?

                      • 8. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                        CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

                        Could you post a snippet of the source and result? Without seeing the problem it's hard to suggest a solution.

                         

                        -DaveS

                        • 9. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                          kieransteele Level 1

                          Indeed I can.

                           

                          I also took a closer look and discovered two significant pans later in the timeline which were due to a motor slipping on the ptz during maintaince. I recropped the left side so that AE would have only similar information to compare, and did not seem to make a difference. Using a smaller web upload sample set I re-ran the project and the issue was even more visible. I am not convinced the scale setting is affecting it. It more looks like AE simply cannot deal with the footage with the auto settings.

                           

                          In the source files under 4_ae_out : _p, _psr indicate position, then position scale and rotate. Even without the scale setting the result is similar.

                           

                          Starting image scaled down for web

                           


                          360_Canair101_20110526_1318_1 Panorama.jpg

                          Finishing image scaled down for web

                           

                          360_Canair101_20120216_1318_1 Panorama.jpg
                          Wobble scale issue visible from after effects. Scaled down to 1080 low
                          grade h264 for web

                          http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080_lower2.mov
                          5mb
                          Same footage passed through photoshop where it can deal with scale in
                          small batches and associated issues with large amounts of footage

                          http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ps_ae_1080_lower.mov
                          5mb

                           

                          1080 versions of the lower ones above, about 40mb each.

                          http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov


                          http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ps_ae_1080.mov

                           

                           

                          Sample source files, before PTGUI stitching, after stitching (as source for AE), project file

                          243mb

                          http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/ps_ae_ptz.zip

                          • 10. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                            Jim Acquavella Adobe Employee

                            I was able to Stabilize the footage with satisfactory results.  In AE CS 5.5, stabilize "full_ae_1080.mov" footage with Stabilization->Result as "No Motion" and Advanced->Detailed Analysis checked.  Are you not happy with the result using those settings?

                            • 11. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                              Jim Acquavella Adobe Employee

                              Note, all other parameters were set a default values.  (Method == Subspace Warp).

                              • 12. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                kieransteele Level 1

                                Jim,

                                 

                                Thankyou for giving it a run. I am mostly happy with the results of doing that as well. What we have though is double processing. So I am looking to process the stills. You would have to get them from the source zip file (243mb) and go from there and see if you get the same result.

                                 

                                "

                                The first time I brought them in via quicktime pro at 1920x1080. The automated results using "no movement" and "postion, scale, rotation" or even "perspective" worked incredibly well, and I bought the product.

                                 

                                Next time I brought the full rez files directly into after effects, processed them, and noticed the scale wobble. Looking back at the HD files, I can now just see the wobble, so I suspect it gets worse the bigger the res.

                                 

                                I tried bringing higher res back in via a qt movie instead of files, same results, tiny wobble at 1920, big wobble at 5000x2000is"

                                "

                                 

                                So when I process a .mov file I seem to get a different result. Its either likely that its more noticeable at higher res, or that after effects is somehow having more luck processing it in a video file than starting from images. If its the first, its too noticeable at full res. If its the 2nd then I have to find something to process the stills into something after effects likes. Quicktime pro export seems to be at its limits dealing with 5000 pixel import files in any volume. Photoshop is choking not on the res but the volumes (can try again in a few days once I get 16gb instead of 8gb).

                                 

                                It really seems like after effects should be able to take the raw files as input with some change to how they are processed, otherwise why could it deal with them pre-processed into vid.

                                 

                                I'll redo some tests regading the effectivness of double processing in after effects. Eg, full_ae_1080.mov was already processed by after effects, and as its stands not suitable. I'd agree with Jim it looks pretty good reprocessed. So I'll reprocess the larger batch in after effects that shows the issue at full rez, then re-process with the above settings and post back. It might take a few days before I can get to it.

                                 

                                If anyone is willing to have a go with the source files, they are still here in the meanwhile.

                                 

                                Thanks for helping all!

                                 

                                 

                                Sample source files, before PTGUI stitching, after stitching (as source for AE), project file

                                243mb

                                http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/ps_ae_ptz.zip

                                • 13. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                  Jim Acquavella Adobe Employee

                                  I want to make sure we are comparing apples to apples.  In the movie files you provided, there are a lot more frames with less difference between adjacent frames.  The project file you provided only uses 8 frames.  Given the entire sequence, please try to use Detailed Analysis and No Motion at full resolution and let us know whether the results are acceptable.  Thanks.

                                  • 14. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                    kieransteele Level 1

                                    Thanks Jim.

                                     

                                    The source stitched 176 frames for my test are about 1gb. So trying to get to the bottom of it without someone having to dl them (and it will take a while to put them up). The 8 frame version shows the same effect happening, just exaggerated. But its a fair call to assume maybe it would not happen with enough information to work with.

                                     

                                    The original http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov I had tried at the time using detailed analysis as well to see if it fixed the issue, and the results were very similar.

                                    I'd also found that using subspace warp instead of PSR (position, scale rotation), or even just P (position) seemed to generate some additional warping there in the output, and certainly for my footage did not result in making it better.

                                     

                                    However, I have re-run the full footage starting from frames not a movie using detail analysis and subspace warp since you running that over the originally processed 1080 footage seemed to do a pretty good job.

                                     

                                    The results are here : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080_warp.mov?dl=1

                                    You can see the warp is really messing it up, and the zooming is not fixed. Left hand side easiest place to see it.

                                     

                                    Note I've found putting ?dl=1 on any of the links actually downloads them for anyone having issues with it simply playing in their browser. The way I am visiually checking any of these for issues (as many are at 1fps) is to load them into quicktime, change it to View, loop. Then In quicktime 7 holding FFWD. In quicktime 10 hitting forward until it runs at 8x. Looping at 8x is where you can really see the issue.

                                     

                                    The files I had not broken out seperately that are in the source files upload were the results in after effects just using the 8 frames. Here they are seperately.

                                     

                                    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/1080_rez_p.mov?dl=1

                                    Position only.

                                     

                                    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/1080_rez_psr.mov?dl=1

                                    Position scale rotate.

                                     

                                    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/1080_rez.mov?dl=1

                                    Unstablized.

                                     

                                    I presume even with subspace warp you get the same results or worse using these 8 frame files.

                                     

                                    If you ignore the extra warping/twisting in the new file, you have the same results as the original http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov?dl=1

                                    played at 8x. The easiest place to see it is the mid left side where you can see it zooming in and out. The fact that it really only starts happening a 3rd the way through makes me think its simply not dealing with the changes in zoom, or the later pan changes in the source file. It wierd the photoshop processed version comes out fine though.

                                     

                                    I was really hoping it was a case of, "ah, I see why it can't deal with those 8 frames, it really needs a manual tracker/stablizer doing x,y,z" But of course I'd be even happier with a tweak to the automated warp stabilizer.

                                     

                                     

                                    If I do a 2nd run on the sample file http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7070604/full_ae_1080.mov I notice selecting P, or PSR does not fix it. Selecting Perspective or Subspace (which probably includes perspective) seems to go a long way and have a similar result.

                                     

                                    Leads me back to thinking selecting subspace on the original footage just warps it, selecting P or PSR fixes all but the zooming thing, and then reprocessing with perspective is tackling the persective in isolation which it could not effectively do before. I don't know if that is because you cannot select P&R without S scale. Or because AE's perspective adjustment cannot work effectively with images that have scale variences in them or ?

                                     

                                    I've now run the ouput from a frames start via P and PSR. Brought them back in and prosessed with subspace and P and PSR. Results seems to be no better. There is some special sauce here somewhere with the reprocessing. Maybe its the codec I am going out to in the middle, maybe its the aspect ratio, maybe its ???

                                     

                                    Might be time to u/l the full source files I guess.

                                     

                                    Thanks for sticking with me.

                                    • 15. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                      Tony Leech

                                      "When we designed this we didn't put all the possible combinations into the Stabilize method (for various reasons).  But your "Position and Rotation only" method is what we are hearing as the next-most-needed option."

                                       

                                      Many thanks for listening!

                                       

                                      I wholeheartedly agree with Tom: the ability to deselect the scale option would be a tremendous benefit. I've had the same issue with the Warp Stabilizer zooming in and out of footage. I've experienced this result on lateral tracking shots, tracking shots moving through Z space, and on handheld pans.

                                      • 16. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                        morozband

                                        i don't understand why all the CS.5.5 users are not asking for this basic option: "Position and Rotation only" IS A MUST. i am struggling to stabilize mYfootage and auto-scale is so uggly and fake. and i'll not even comment the SUBwarp option  that distort considerably every kind of footage.

                                        Waiting impatiently for the new version!!!

                                        • 17. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                          Ninarama Level 1

                                          I know this is some time ago, but I also have a problem with some special kind of video:

                                           

                                          Driving videos. I like to do timelapse videos of my bike rides. That means a lot of "zooming", because if you drive through the city, you actually recorded something that looks like an infinite zoom. And that's exactly where the stabilizer often fails. It mistakes the threedimensional forward progression for an actual zoom and tries to stabilize it resulting in "jumping" forward and backwards and the "vertigo effect" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB4bikrNzMk ) where a smooth forward transition would be preferred. Being able to disable "zoom" would get rid of this vertigo effect.

                                          • 18. Re: Possible to turn OFF "Rolling Shutter Ripple" correction in CS5.5 Warp Stabilizer?
                                            CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

                                            There's a new "Preserve Scale" checkbox that's part of Warp Stabilizer VFX that shipped on Monday as part of After Effects CC. That should do the trick for you!

                                             

                                            -DaveS