16 Replies Latest reply on Oct 28, 2011 7:09 AM by rdnelson

    unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets

    unboundedlight

      I'm new to HD editing and PRE so apologies if this is not entirely clear. I've been reading here for days and now I'm more confused than ever.

       

      I have a Canon HF S20/AVCHD and I have some clips shot in PF24 with FXP settings (17mbps, I believe). I have edited these clips in PE 8 adding some titles, cross dissolves, fades, and some frame captures (1920 x 1080). It all seemed to work pretty well except for when I export it to DVD (looks like I'm stuck with the Share/DIsc/NTSC_Widescreen_Dolby and Fit Contents with maximum of 8 mbps-but this is a whole other quagmire) I'm getting artifacts (appears to be combing, perhaps?) in the frame grabs. The video seems to play fine, albeit at less than half of the HD definition. As an aside, the assets were transferred from my camcorder using Sony PMB and when I check the properties in my Videos folder it shows that the clips as being shot at 29fps and they show as 29.97 in my project.

       

      At any rate, in my reading, it appears that my problem is the result of not having the appropriate presets for my video and I found where someone (Paul_LS) suggested that custom presets for Canon progressive camcorders can be downloaded form the Adobe support site:

       

      http://http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3408.

       

      The instructions state that the presets are for a different camcorder (Canon XL-H1) and a diffrerent product (Premiere Pro 2.0) but the poster stated it would work in PE (no version).

       

      Anyway, Step 1 is to copy the "Canon HDV.xml" file (the file I got from download is "Canon Progressive HDV.xml) to C:\Program Files (my Adobe is in Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Pro 2.0 (=> Adobe Premiere Elements 8.0)\Plug-ins\en_US\Editing Modes. There is already a file there (Adobe Editing Modes.xml).

       

      Step 2 is to copy the "Canon HDV" folder to C:\Program Files (=> Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 (=> Adobe Premiere Elements 8.0)\Settings\en_US. MY \Settings has a small "s" and I don't have the \en_US folder but after poking around a bit it looks like the other presets are in the \Sequence Presets\NTSC folder so I put it in there and the "Canon HDV" folder shows up in under NTSC in the Change Settings box but no little plus sign to get it to open and show the presets.

       

      Any idea what I might have done wrong?

       

      I also saw somewhere to use the "interpret footage" box but when I tried that it slowed the audio unacceptably.

       

      I also saw jkents new editing presets for PE8  but it says "warning-advanced users only" and I'm clearly not.

       

      Meanwhile, I would really love to be able to shoot in HD 24fps, edit in HD 24fps, and share in HD 24fps but it looks like it's not to be with the hardware and software I have. It looks like if I upgrade to PE 10 and get an external Blu-ray burner, that might get me there, except then the people I want to share with would need a Blu-ray player. I realize this is an Adobe forum and I'm already a little bit familiar with PE (mostly with what it won't do at this point but I'm sure that's only because I don't know how) so I'm not exactly relishing the idea of yet another learning curve if I switch but I'm also not thrilled about paying Adobe (via an upgrade) to drop the ball on AVCHD so if there is an easier way, I'm all ears. For the price of the upgrade bundle it looks like it's not that far away from Premiere Pro. Would that be a better way to go?

       

      Anyway, please pardon my ignorance. Thanks in advance and any info is appreciated.

       

      Sony VAIO VPCF1390X

      Intel I7 Q740 1.73gHZ, 6 GB ram

      Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

      Nvidia graphics (G425m, I think)

      PE 8

        • 1. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          You shouldn't have to add any presets to your program files folder. In fact, I recommend you don't toy around in there. You might break something. (I hope you haven't already!) The program already has everything you need (particularly if you've also installed Quicktime from Apple.com, per the program's requirements.)

           

          You should not be using the HDV presets for your project. Your camcorder is not an HDV camcorder. It shoots in AVCHD, as you indicated, so it uses a different set of project settings.

           

          Start a new Premiere Elements project and, on the screen where you name the project, click Settings. The settings you want for your project are Full AVCHD 1920x1080. Your camcorder records in either stereo or 5.1 audio, so it's important you also pick the right audio settings.

           

          With these settings, editng should go very smoothly on your computer.

           

          However, because your original project apparently didn't use these settings, you may be in trouble there. Go to Edit/Project Settings. (They will be grayed-out, since you can't change them mid-project.) Are they other than 1920x1080 AVC video?

           

          In short, you'll be happy to hear that using this program is much simpler than you've been led to believe. Unfortunately, you've got to use the program correctly or you're going to put a lot of wasted effort into it.

           

          So start with my free 8-part Basic Training tutorials at Premiere Elements support site Muvipix.com. They'll, at least, get you on the right track.

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/537685

          • 2. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            The video seems to play fine, albeit at less than half of the HD definition.

            Actually, going from full HD to SD (the DVD-spec.), your resolution will be ~ 1/4 of what the HD is. Compare 1920x 1080 to 720 x 480 (the NTSC DVD Frame Size) This is the limitation of going to DVD. Now, if you go to BD (Blu-ray Disc), you will get the full resolution of the 1920 x 1080 HD material. Of course, you need a BD burner and blank media for this.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
              Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

              Hi 1earthdragon1,

               

              Forget 24fps unless you go to film, this is a movie mode, we are PAL here but, the best way for you would be do the lot at 30fps, it will look better, Sharper, cleaner and not like the rubbish thrown up in the cinema.

              If you Export to DVD from something shot in HD 1920 x 1080p you will get artifacts, mainly shimmering verticals and horizontals. If you go to Blu-ray, and Premiere Elements does that very well in H.264 or AVCHD the result will be stunning video.

              Ps. Your Vaio appears to be underpowered for HD AVCHD in any case

               

              Good luck, a glass of wine would help, ask Bill.

              • 4. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                 

                 

                Yes, seems to help ME, at least.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                  Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                  I agree with Steve, you should not be using the HDV/mpeg-2 preset which would suit a Canon XL H1 which is tape and professional @25mbps and 1440 x 1080 and not 17mbps as per your unit, use the generic settings in PE ,but, your problems as I said before begin when you downgrade the transfer to DVD, it will not look as good as Blu-ray or Export to Tape (in which you get no artifacts), but you cannot do that using your camera.

                  • 6. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                    unboundedlight Level 1

                    Thanks so much for the replies. All are helpful.

                     

                    Steve: I checked the project settings as you suggested which just shows HD 1080i (I don't see anything about AVC). When I open a new project the settings screen is already defaulted to the NTSC\AVCHD\Full HD 1080i 30 (I don't see a setting for 1920 x 1080) and know that this is the only setting I have used so far in 6 projects. I reversed my installation attempts and all seems fine.

                     

                    The only reason I'm investigating at all is because I really want to use the 24p and I don't see how I can do that anywhere except jkent62's new presets whch I'm leaning more towards all the time.

                     

                    Bill: it is looking like this is indeed a limiation for PE 8 but didn't I see somwhere here that it it is possible to cram like 20 minutes of HD onto a DVD with a different editor? In some cases, this might be an acceptable option.

                     

                    Bob: what you say about artifacts when exporting to DVD sounds right to me. It also sounds like you think Blu-ray might be a workable solution and I'm sure I'll end up there soon. Also, the Vaio is underpowered for HD/AVCHD? Can you give m an idea in what way-maybe I can correct it.

                     

                    Of course, I'm not going to need any export at all unless I can get this 24p thing handled, though. Any thoughts on looking for an editor that will handle AVCHD/24p right out of the box? I have time-sensitive projects I need to complete and I really don't want to have to reinvent the wheel here. PE 10? Sony Vegas? Any other ideas?

                     

                    Meanwhile, thanks so much again for the assistance and, as always, any info is appreciated.

                    • 7. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                      Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                      As far as the Vaio is concerned , check to see if the operating system meets the basic requirements of the software you are using AVCHD and h.264 mov  1920x 1080 may require a minimum of 2.0Ghz and Duo-Core ?

                       

                      If you upgrade to PE 10 you will have a stabilizer, not so in PPro CS 5.5.1, however, if you are prepared for a learning curve , in the end it is easier to use and more efficient with AVCHD, h.264mov and apparently anything you might throw at it. Transfer of media to DVD and Blu-ray is a pain using ENCORE,( just exported 5 projects to Blu-ray and the same to Pro tape) not as simple as PE. Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 11 is great with AVCHD & H.264mov but, interface is intimidating at first and not as Professional as CS5.5.1, but, it will do the job. Now all these editing systems do 24fps and you should be lucky, but,I am even from a cinema background and in PAL country where 25fps is the norm, would not use 24fps.?There is support for 24fps, check out information >http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiope/videoediting  and of course CS5.5.1 at a price.My preference would be Adobe CS5.5.1 but, it is pricey.I do not think your computer would handle the Adobe Editing Software, Check out System Requirements for both, Premiere Elements 10 and CS5.5.1 also Sony which usually states a minimum processor of 2.0Ghz, you may get away with it, but, it could be slow and crash often. The best of luck.

                       

                      You can download free trials of most software for 30 days & see what happens ?

                       

                       

                      Message was edited by: Bob Dix Photographer

                      • 8. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                        unboundedlight Level 1

                        Bob: Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I see what you mean about the CS5 being pricey (I failed to heed the "as low as") so a little out of reach right now. I still think upgrading to PE 10 is an option. I like PE but I have to seperate that from will it do what I need it to do with minimum hassle and without breaking the bank so at this point, if I'm going to throw some money at a solution I think, based on your observations and eugenia's recent review of PE 10, I'm going to throw it at Sony. Cyberlink also seems to have a capable editor. I have used an older version in the past and while not great, it seemed to get the job done. Oh, and it's my understanding that with turbo boost the i7 speed will run up to 2.63 GHz when needed, so should be fine.

                         

                        Thanks so much again.

                        • 9. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                          Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                          Don't forget the free trials, Cyberlink I could not download, but, Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 11 was a clear winner at $116 aud, also stablizer, and handles AVCHD, H.264 and HDV/mpeg-2 perfectly (however, the layout is similar to Sony Pro 10 and initially can be daunting), and I stll run it along side Premiere Pro CS5.5.1 which is now great except for a stabilizer. PE 10 should be OK , I have used PE4 earlier and it was perfect for both, but, a little slow. Ps., But, it did have a stablizer.

                           

                           

                           

                          Good luck   

                          • 10. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                            unboundedlight Level 1

                            Bob: Thanks again for the info. Didn't I see somwhere that the Sony MSHDP11 is still 32 bit? I have all this money invested in 64 bit hardware to process video and I'm really disinclined to settle for a 32 bit editor so I guess that tilts the tables back towards PE 10. You say it has a stabilizer, right? It looks like PProCS5.5 is the Cadillac but out of reach right now so it looks like PE 10 is going to have to work.

                             

                            Thanks so much again for all you knowledgeable advice and help narrowing it down.

                            • 11. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                              Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                              Earthdragon,

                               

                              Yes, it is but, I too use a 64 bit operating system , and Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 11 is 32 bit,(and is very fast with AVCHD/or H.264mov 1920 x 1080 clips.) but, I did download from Microsoft, Free ( Windows XP Mode with Windows Virtual PC) which made all my old bits of software run magically which included the 5 year old Premiere Pro 1.5.1 which is still used occassionally, for simple editing. you may be more comfortable with PP10 as it is fairly automatic, but, check on trial the SVMSP 11, it may surprise you.?

                               

                              All the best.

                               

                               

                              Yes, PE 4 did have a stabilizer in the old version, but, check it out, it was very good. I thought it was in 10 when I trialled it ?

                              • 12. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                                unboundedlight Level 1

                                Bob:

                                 

                                Thanks again for the info. I checked on the windows Virtual PC but I don't have the right Windows 7 for that (Home Premium). In the meantime, I found the stabilizer in my PrE 8 but it seemed like it took a really long time to correct my firehosing and jogging in even a short clip. Meanwhile also, after considerable poking around and in case anyone else runs across my original problem which was artifacts in the Freeze Frames, I think I found a solution for that in the Adobe Help section:

                                Deinterlace: Removes one field from an interlaced video clip and doubles the remaining field, so that interlace artifacts are not apparent in the freeze frame.

                                Seemed to fix the problem and much more simply than I originally thought.

                                I think at this point I'm really leaning towards the PrE 10 64 bit, just because I'm a little familiar with it now and I have so many projects I really can't stop right now and learn a new editor. As soon as I can though I want to try the SVMSP 11.

                                Thanks again so miuch for all your assistance.

                                Best regards,




                                 

                                • 13. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                                  rdnelson Level 2

                                  I have a question related to this problem as 1earthdragon1 is playing with the cinema mode of this camera.  The Canon HF S20 has a 24p mode but I believe it records in 60i.  Will PrE remove the pulldown automatically or is external software required?

                                  • 15. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                    For best results, your frame rate, video dimensions and codec should match your project settings precisely. You will not get good results using 24p video in a 60i project.

                                    • 16. Re: unsuccessful install of Canon HDV presets
                                      rdnelson Level 2

                                      The question is what is the best project setting to use in the case where the camera captures in 24p but records on tape at 60i?  A pulldown needs to occur to restore the origina 24p content.  Does the camera do this when capturing from the camera?  Or, if the resulting vidoe is 60i after capture, will PrE do the pulldown when the video is exported?