1 2 3 Previous Next 114 Replies Latest reply on Oct 25, 2011 7:28 PM by Jeff Bellune

    i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?

    flyingfish4 Level 1

      I was considering buying a new system with an i7-2600K and either a P67 or a Z68 until I talked with "The Video Guys" at videoguys.com.

       

      They say the 2600K and all Sandy Bridge MOBO's & systems have problems with I/O Boxes and adding additional hardware through the PCIe slots (except GPU's). 

       

      They said the Matrox Mini won't work and RAID controller cards and any pretty much any additional hardware (except GPU's) can have problems. 

       

      They suggest using an X58 MOBO with an i7-9xx series processor unless I don't plan on adding any hardware through PCIe slots.

       

      Anyone know if this is true?

       

      I noticed that only 3 of the i7-2600K's on PPBM5 have RAID controller cards.  Is this why?

       

      They also say they're concerned about the shared PCIe bandwidth of the Sandy Bridge MOBO's and integrated graphics on the Z68.

       

      Here's the links to their opinion:

      http://www.videoguys.com/Guide/C/DIY+Systems/Videoguys+DIY8+Hex+Core/0x094b1737e0a06c495e5 178a167fbdbd7.aspx

       

      http://www.videoguys.com/Blog/E/Sandy+Bridge+++Getting+closer+with+the+ASUS+P8Z68+V+PRO+Mo therboard/0x225799a751fa7ed929c42b46af712285.aspx

       

      Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Sandy Bridge has only 20 PCIe lanes, of which 4 are used by the system, leaving 16 free for use by PCIe cards. Normally you have a PCIe-16x video card, so all lanes are used. When you add a PCIe-8x raid controller, the video card drops down to PCIe-8x. Now, people say that that is hardly noticeable in performance, but still all lanes are used. If you want to add a Matrox Mini or any other PCIe card, the consequence is that the speed of the other cards drop even further to 4x. Whether that is the Raid controller or the video card or both, dropping speed to PCIe-4x is very noticeable in performance.

           

          So, VideoGuys is correct, the Sandy Bridge is a mid-range solution, not a high-end solution like the Sandy Bridge-E and the X79 mobo, which have 40 PCIe lanes. Not everybody needs a raid controller plus an AJA/BM/Matrox card, but if you belong to that category of users, the current X58 platform is still more attractive than Sandy Bridge as a high-end platform, soon to be succeeded by the Sandy Bridge-E and X79.

          • 3. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Your link is completely irrelevant to the question the OP asked.

             

            Please explain why VideoGuys are incorrect? Want to dispute the 20 lane limitation, want to dispute the drop down in speed of the video card, what makes you believe that VideoGuys are wrong?

            • 4. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
              Islanders66 Level 1

              Intresting read, Scott. My only gripe with that is that you only compare the i7 2600k Sandy Bridge to the 990x x58. You claim that is the only one that can beat a SB. But, there is also the 980 and 970 that are also x58 and much less expensive than the 990x. I have the 980 and only one Sandy Bridge places ahead of it in the PPBM5 with the 5.5. Mine is the Asus 4.0 under the 5.5 test the Sandy Bridge that places above mine also has a 580 graphics card and 10000 rpm OS drive. Anyway, just pointing out that there is another option besides the Sandy Bridge and 990x. The 980 and Asus Rampage have been rock solid for me.

              • 5. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                Scott Chichelli Level 3

                this thread is titled IO and raid cards wont work on sandy

                i have proven it over an over again thats not correct. and Garys originals thoughts were not correct

                 

                even Gary whom i have had several conversations with has backed off his previous stance

                with an io card and a raid card the benchmarks DID NOT DROP.

                 

                SCott

                ADK

                • 6. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                  actually unless doing AE or heavy effected red 4k the 2600k beats everything including the 990x (well other than the new sandy E)

                  and its only 11% better for 350% more $

                   

                  Scott

                  ADK

                  • 7. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                    Islanders66 Level 1

                    I would like to see that because my 980 is placing above all the 2600k except one, and it's a few hundred more.

                    • 8. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                      PPBM is a nice way to glean an idea but in no way accurate due to far too many variables.

                       

                      our tests show a different light

                       

                      Adobe Premier Pro CS5.5 testing:

                      4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays

                      Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material

                      Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default

                      4 Effects per Layer - Fast Color Corrector, Brightness & Contrast, Video Limiter, Sharpen

                      Each Layer Scaled to 50% for 4 frame PinP view.

                       

                      I7 990X 3.4 GHz

                      24GB Blackline 1600 CL 9

                      580GTX

                      3 Layer - 35:55

                      4 Layer - 39:02

                      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                      I7 990X 4.0 GHz

                      24GB Blackline 1600 CL 9

                      580GTX

                      3 Layer - 32:06

                      4 Layer - 34:45

                      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                      I7 2600K 4.7 GHz

                      16GB Blackline 1600 CL 9

                      570GTX

                      4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays

                      3 Layer - 30:46

                      4 Layer - 33:36

                      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                      and the new big dog

                       

                      X79 3.3 @ 3.9 GHz

                      16GB 1333

                      570GTX

                      4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays

                      CS5.5.1

                      3 Layer - 31:47

                      4 Layer - 34:14

                      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                      X79 3.3 @ 4.5 GHz

                      16GB 1333

                      580GTX 3GB

                      4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays

                      CS5.5.1

                      3 Layer - 29:08

                      4 Layer - 31.01

                       

                      X79 3.3 @ 4.5 GHz

                      32GB 1333

                      580GTX 3GB

                      4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays

                      CS5.5.1

                      3 Layer - 27:55

                      4 Layer - 30:04

                       

                      Scott

                      ADK

                      • 9. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                        Islanders66 Level 1

                        Let me get this straight. You're comparing a 990 x with no raid to a 2600 with two raid 0? If that is the case whichever processor with a raid would be the fastest.

                        • 10. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                          Videoguys

                          My issue with Sandy Bridge is not the processors, it's the chipset and motherboards available. PCIe lane limitations is a reality and one that my more profesional customers have to be aware of. With all respect to ADK, they need to seperate what they can build and support from what is recommended to a DIY editor. They can't seem to do that. The recommendations against Sandy Bridge do not mean "Do not Buy a Sandy Bridge system from ADK". It means: understand the risks you are taking by building your own computer based on Sandy Bridge.

                           

                          I have updated my DIY8 aricle to include a recommended Sandy Bridge build. This machine will run CS5.5 (or Avids or Vegas or Edius) fantastic. It does include the warning that folks using this system with a professional  I/O device and a RAID controller card may run into issues. I stand behind this statement.For this level of video work any and all bottlenecks must be elimiated/ avoided.  But also keep in mind that you can run an I/O box like the MXO2 mini great with this system, using an external eSata RAID solution like G-Raid or Glyph. Or use an internal RAID 0 using the motherboards on board RAID.

                           

                          The good news is that Intel has announced the next generation of Sandy Bridge chips and these will be supported by enthusiast level mohterboads and chipsets. There is still some unceratinty and debate about how or if these new mobos will support PCI 3.0

                           

                          I added a comment about a potential DIY9 machine based on this new chipset and a hex-core Sandy bridge. The article is a very good read. They also make several points that do support ADKs position about PCI.

                           

                          • DIY9 Update: I am waiting for the new Intel Core i7-3960X (Sandy Bridge-E) And X79 Platform to be released later this year. We posted a blog article from Tom's Hardware in Sept about it. The Intel Core i7-3930K Hex Core should hit the price/performance sweet spot that we hope will deliver all of the promise and potential of Sandy Bridge for our professioanl NLE apps and workflows.

                           

                          Gary

                          • 11. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Funny.

                             

                            X58 i7-920  2.67 @ 3.7 GHz

                            24GB 1600

                            480GTX 1.5GB

                            Raid30 and raid0

                            CS5 5.0.3

                            3 Layer - 26:19

                            4 Layer - 28:54

                             

                            Beats the hell out of the 2600K

                            • 12. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                              Scott Chichelli Level 3

                              NO all systems are always tested with the exact same components

                               

                              All were done with 2 x 2 drive raid 0

                              • 13. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                Right Harm what ever you say

                                yeah your 920 is beating the brand new Sandy E... i would have to see a video of it.

                                even a dual Xeon @ 4GHz dont get those numbers.

                                • 14. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                  HI Gary,

                                  did you see my Sandy E numbers?

                                  not all that at all..

                                   

                                  Scott

                                  • 15. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                    Ok I have run that test with every system configuration around including SSD's in raid 0 and I have never seen numbers that low at all even with dual Xeons at 4.0GHz, 48GB ram, and Dual SSD drives with 10K 8 drive raptor array or Sandybridge at 4.7GHz. I am sorry Harm but I can't see those as possible at all unless you have some Adobe changes that no one else has. I know now after considerable testing with the MPE and knowledge of how CUDA works that GHz is far more important than Threads once you reach 4 cores. So there is absolutely no way a 3.7GHz system beat a 4.7GHz system with the MPE. It's not possible with the current MPE engine nor is it possible in any Multimedia Benchmark out there. That data suggests a 3 year old CPU at lower GHz beat a 4.7 CPU that has the latest instruction sets, the better clock speed, and better performance overall in every benchmark out to date. That is not accurate.

                                     

                                    I have also tested raid 3 on that same Areca controller on a client's system who called for support and the performance was no better than Raid 5 and the rebuild times were far worse than raid 5 on the Intel so I know it's not the controller.

                                     

                                    Eric

                                    ADK

                                    • 16. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                      Videoguys Level 1

                                      Scott,

                                       

                                      What X79 mother voard are you running?

                                      Do you have the new hex cores on it 3930 or 3960.

                                      I'm most interested inthe 3930 becuase it is supposed to be under $500.

                                       

                                      Gary

                                      • 17. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                        Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                        See above I posted them.

                                         

                                        Also this thread

                                         

                                        http://forums.adobe.com/message/3975677#3975677

                                         

                                        we tested the 3960. The 6 core 3.3GHz

                                         

                                        I don’t see the 3930 being any better than the 2600 I wont have 1 for another month according to intel

                                         

                                        All I have are the 2  6 cores 3.3 and 3.2

                                         

                                        We used an Intel mobo engineering sample have others inbound shortly

                                        • 18. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                          Jim_Simon Level 9

                                          with an io card and a raid card the benchmarks DID NOT DROP.

                                           

                                          Uh...yeah they did.

                                           

                                          "Now in all fairness of disclosure the drive benchmarks dropped from our previous tests on X58"

                                           

                                          Isn't this exactly what these guys are talking about?  Add components to the PCI-E lanes, and they don't operate at full performance.

                                          • 19. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                            Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                            umm the VIDEO benchmark did not drop...

                                            the raid array drive speed was still more than fast enough for anyone working on a single proc system.

                                            anyone who really needs 700-800MB/s would be on a Xeon

                                            • 20. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                              Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                              and harms little post was a stab at me and Eric for STILL not sending him the test we use...

                                              • 21. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                Jim_Simon Level 9

                                                the raid array drive speed was still more than fast enough for anyone working on a single proc system.

                                                 

                                                Wouldn't that be up to the end user to decide?  I mean, your own tests show that when you add a device to the current Sandy Bridge platform, those devices (GPU, RAID, etc.) do not operate at full capacity.  That is the main point here.

                                                 

                                                Now if you want to point out how much it drops by, that's fine.  But performance does suffer.  That's been established.  And there's nothing wrong with folks understanding this point better.

                                                 

                                                Not minimalized, not overblown, just understood.

                                                • 22. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                  No Jim the main point is will the system work for editing.

                                                   

                                                  For 95% of users the sandy bridge will work for their work flow period end of discussion.

                                                   

                                                  Those working on a single processor system with a raid array on a raid card are doing so for redundancy not speed.

                                                   

                                                  As a 2 drive set of raid 0 (200 MB/s ) is more than plenty of speed for most workflows. The only point to a parity raid is redundancy.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Its also been proven that reducing the video card to 8x has no ill effect on editing.

                                                   

                                                  Its also been proven that the capture card will work as intended with no reduction in ability.

                                                   

                                                  Its also been proven that even with the raid card and capture card in the sandy bridge it STILL OUTPERFORMS an X58.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  That’s the point.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Note I didn’t mention animation. That’s a completely different discussion. As would editors who need dual Xeons and High speed raid

                                                  • 23. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                    Its also been proven that even with the raid card and capture card in the sandy bridge it STILL OUTPERFORMS an X58.

                                                     

                                                    Alledgedly so by you, using a simple, SINGLE test that is skewed to begin with and can not be replicated in real life. See my earlier post.

                                                     

                                                    If a guy has his feet in the fridge and his head in the oven, you can say his average temperature is normal, but would he be comfortable? It is all about lying with statistics and your test only measures a tiny aspect of PR performance and is not indicative of everyday editing and thus is pretty useless.

                                                     

                                                    PPBM is a nice way to glean an idea but in no way accurate due to far too many variables.

                                                     

                                                    Like??? It is a more comprehensive test than yours, measures more aspects of performance and gives more reliability since it can be replicated, it is open for all to test and has a huge number of submissions.

                                                     

                                                    What about your single aspect test, it is not open, it can't be replicated (easily), it has only few observations, it has far too many variables.

                                                     

                                                    I'll give you that both the tests each use the same timeline and source material, only your timeline is very limited and contains only one format and tests only ONE thing, whereas ours contains multiple formats - which is a standard way for most editors, mixing formats - and tests different aspects of PR performance. The variables in both cases are the hardware, so where do you get the idea that your test would be any more reliable than ours?

                                                     

                                                    If anything, ADK testing is a lousy way to glean an idea and is in no way accurate due to far too many variables, too simple SINGLE testing and unknown testing environments and conditions.

                                                     

                                                    Get real Scott.

                                                    • 24. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                      Harm,

                                                       

                                                      As I have told you before you make yourself look silly saying what you are saying.

                                                       

                                                      For the 10th time why we would mislead anyone when selling a higher priced system we make money.

                                                       

                                                      Yet we recommend the more affordable yet faster sandy bridge over X58 for most users.

                                                       

                                                      If anything this lends more credibility.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Frankly I don’t give a poo if you believe me or not. And I am pretty sure the majority do.

                                                       

                                                      But I have a feeling if you owned a sandy bridge you would not run your mouth like you do.

                                                       

                                                      And I really hope you didn’t just call me a liar.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Our test is far more real world than PPBM, how more real world do you want than a 30 minute avchd to h264

                                                       

                                                      With 3 and 4 common effects added?

                                                       

                                                      Or should I use XDcam because that’s what you have? Or is our red 4k test better for you?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Look up scientific method I realize its been a very long time since you went to school.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      The methodology of what we do is just that reduce as many variables as possible.

                                                       

                                                      (that would mean use as many of the same components as possible) in our case we swap motherboard and CPU that’s it

                                                       

                                                      All other items remain the same.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      With PPBM its user submitted meaning the variables in system components, windows tweaks (if any) bios tweaks (if any) Adobe settings etc

                                                       

                                                      Are wildly differing. This is always the issue with user submitted tests.

                                                       

                                                      As I have stated 20 times its not anything against your test but the fact its user submitted.

                                                       

                                                      However your test is very small and weak it really does not hit a system heavy enough.

                                                       

                                                      I have also said our test needed to be heavier hitting.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Feel free to continue to make yourself look silly.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Scott

                                                       

                                                      PS just caught your little addendum

                                                      your test tests multiple aspects? really.

                                                       

                                                      realistically if you want to test animation then you need to use a real project as 10 seconds of something is not a test.

                                                      nor is 10 seconds of encoding to h264.

                                                      you want an animation test? i can tell you right now the 990x will beat the sandy bridge due to 24 gig ram and more cores.

                                                      and a Xeon with 12 cores will beat the 6 core.

                                                      • 25. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                        Retested while running several applications in the background on a non-optimized system:

                                                         

                                                        X58 i7-920  2.67 @ 3.7 GHz

                                                        24GB 1600

                                                        480GTX 1.5GB

                                                        Raid30 and raid0

                                                        CS5 5.5.1

                                                         

                                                        4 Layer - 14:33 using your effects as stated before. Only difference is progressive versus interlaced.

                                                         

                                                        Beats the hell out of the 2600K

                                                         

                                                        What does this say about the reliability of your test?

                                                         

                                                        Copy from the AME Encoding Log:

                                                         

                                                        - Source File: D:\Temp\Indonesie_1.prproj

                                                        - Output File: E:\Video Projects\Pien\Sequence 06_2.mp4

                                                        - Preset Used: Custom

                                                        - Video: PAL, 1920x1080, 25 fps, De-interlaced

                                                        - Audio: AAC, 160 kbps, 48 kHz, Stereo

                                                        - Bitrate: VBR, 1 Pass, Target 32,00, Max 40,00 Mbps

                                                        - The source was deinterlaced

                                                        - Encoding Time: 00:14:33

                                                        10/19/2011 12:16:47 AM : File Successfully Encoded

                                                        • 26. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                          "Alledgedly so by you, using a simple, SINGLE test that is skewed to begin with and can not be replicated in real life. See my earlier post"

                                                          I actually sent Bill the PPBM results for the 2600K  with the raid controller as well accept it was CS5.5 and he CC'ed you on those when he replied. I normally do both our test and the PPBM test.

                                                           

                                                          "

                                                          What about your single aspect test, it is not open, it can't be replicated (easily), it has only few observations, it has far too many variables.

                                                           

                                                          I'll give you that both the tests each use the same timeline and source material, only your timeline is very limited and contains only one format and tests only ONE thing, whereas ours contains multiple formats - which is a standard way for most editors, mixing formats - and tests different aspects of PR performance. The variables in both cases are the hardware, so where do you get the idea that your test would be any more reliable than ours?"

                                                           

                                                          Actually I have listed the exact specs of the test we run including how all the layers are scaled and the effects used as well as the exact presets we export to. I also listed the exact time each layer is. You can simply plug in any codec of material you want and run the same test since I posted these on the forum here more than once. I did the exact same for the Red 4K material as well so we do not just test AVCHD. I can do the same with any material. What that shows is simply the different caching and processing for each codec currently in Adobe. Red 4K shows some difference between platforms just because of the heavy processing and memory use.

                                                           

                                                          " If anything, ADK testing is a lousy way to glean an idea and is in no way accurate due to far too many variables, too simple SINGLE testing and unknown testing environments and conditions.'

                                                           

                                                          Actually the test is very simple since it creates significant load to the system in software mode and cannot playback realtime without the MPE hardware even on Dual Xeons at 4.0GH'z. I designed the test to test the MPE engine and the performance of that on each platform. Since this is Adobe's forum then it seems like a great idea to test the primary component of their product. Every effect in our test is accelerated. All layers are highly scaled. The material is 24 frame and progressive. Everything about the test is to push the MPE Hardware acceleration as much as possible and see what platform/hardware works best with it. You mentioned the fact the test sounded like a Mercury engine test before and that I should have added non accelerated effects to force more CPU threading in the past. I agreed with you then that was probably a good idea. I am now testing again with the highest loading native non accelerated effect that Premiere has to measure that but I have not been able to redo that test on all platforms. As I tell Scott, I am  swamped and your more than welcome to do it yourself

                                                           

                                                          Once I have the results with the non-accelerated effects as well then I will post those to so everyone can compare.

                                                           

                                                          "What about your single aspect test, it is not open, it can't be replicated (easily), it has only few observations, it has far too many variables"

                                                          So do you have Intel's CPU test they use internal? We don't so I doubt you do. This is a common practice in the IT industry period. Do you realize how long it took for Intel to release their CPU diag program to the general public when they had it engineering side for ages? Do you have the Internal benchmark test from WD for their drives where they post crazy numbers you can't duplicate by software? Neither do I but your argument will not get you that test either. That is just the way the industry works. I have an AE benchmark a broadcast client of mine gave me to use for internal testing on the condition I do not release the project to anyone. I will gladly post the results for that if people are interested for each platform but your not getting the test. And that is the way it is.

                                                           

                                                          One last thing. Do you not think it's just as easy for people to edit the doc files that are submitted to you and Bill if they want to. You have to trust them that they are submitting them as they tested. Were you there to watch them run it? No so since you have to trust them, why is that suddenly an issue with our internal benchmark. It seems to be an issue only when the message does not meet expectations or beliefs. That is the unfortunate reality of this industry. Often times the results are far different than are advertised. Take a couple days trying to work in Media Composer and you get that very quickly.

                                                           

                                                          Eric

                                                          ADK

                                                          • 27. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                            RjL190365 Level 4

                                                            That result is exactly what I suspected: No inexpensive or freebie SATA controller is anywhere near as fast as an astronomically expensive controller. This is because the cheaper controllers misuse the CPU and system RAM while the ultra-expensive controllers have their own circuits. Take away the Areca RAID controller, and the i7-920 will underperform because the cheaper controllers do not have enough ports and thus cannot support more than four hard drives (excluding the OS drive and the internal optical drive). The shortage of PCI-e lanes, on the other hand, will limit the performance improvement when that same Areca card is installed in an i7-2600K system.

                                                            • 28. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                              Have you benchmarked raid 0 on the onboard Intel controller lately with 2 drives. Have you seen the increased performance due to the caching model change. Tell me if a 2 drive raid 0 is is giving you 230MB/s to 300MB/s sustained, what codecs require more than that to output files? There is a point of diminishing return and even the 100Mbit/s to 200Mbit codecs are never going to require anywhere near that much bandwidth. The actual CPU usage can be measured for the onboard controller as well and it averages 3% to 5% on an average load and maxes at 10 to 12%. have you looked at the CPU usage the raid controllers use themselves because of the driver threading and memory management they use. About 3% to 5%. So yes you lose at most 7% cpu usage when using the onboard at burst levels. Also have you benched a 2 drive or even a 4 drive raid 0 on a raid controller card versus the onboard. I hate to break the news to you but the onboard is either benching faster or they are the same. You really need to run the tests again before you assume based on standard tech information or best practices from 3 years ago or more.

                                                               

                                                              Eric

                                                              ADK

                                                              • 29. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                Randall,

                                                                 

                                                                It is no surprise to me either, but Scott is so focussed on the great performance of the CPU that he tends to forget that a balanced system is much more important. There is no doubt that the i7-2600K is a great CPU and outperforms many quad core i7-9xx CPU's on processing power, but equally, or even more important is to have a nice balance between components to get optimal results. Scott seems to only see parity raids as a need for redundancy, not speed.

                                                                 

                                                                If one is working with anything other than AVCHD material, like uncompressed, AVC.Intra-100 or XF 50 in highest quality, the load on the disk I/O system can be huge and with multiple tracks it can slow down a system significantly. That is where a dedicated raid controller is advisable. Then a 2 disk (r)aid0 becomes a bottleneck, apart from the data-loss risks it entails. That simply is where the Sandy Bridge platform is lacking, to return to the OP's question.

                                                                • 30. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                  RjL190365 Level 4

                                                                  In my system, I found almost no increase in performance with two drives in a RAID 0 compared to the performance with a single hard drive. In this particular case, I might as well revert to using single drives in my system (note that "single drives" means each physical drive as its own volume, not a single hard drive for everything).

                                                                  • 31. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                    100Mbit divided by 8 is equal to 12.5MB/s. I think 230MB/s to 300MB/s performance on 2 drive raid 0 can handle more layers of those codecs than anyone will ever use. However to clarify that means the 2 drive raid 0 can handle anywhere from 18.4 layers to 24 layers of those codecs realtime. If you exceed that many then you should be working in AE

                                                                     

                                                                    BTW remember though the realtime playback is Adobe's Algorithm and not the codec of material. How much of the codec bit rate comes into play since Adobe uses their interpretation algorithm is hard to say since essentially the material is just being Decoded.

                                                                     

                                                                    One last point is even the Red 4K material at 4 layers did not show much of a difference outputting to 4K DPX between a raid 0 or 8 drive raid array. Your assuming based on information from 3 years ago. Things have changed. You can't tell me that Red 4K is less disk intensive than those 2 codecs.

                                                                     

                                                                    Eric

                                                                    ADK

                                                                    • 32. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                      What board are you using and what Rapid Storage Manager version do you have installed?

                                                                       

                                                                      Eric

                                                                      ADK

                                                                      • 33. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                        RjL190365 Level 4

                                                                        Currently, my i7-2600K system is on an Asus P8P67 PRO v3.0. And the system is running RST version 10.5.0.1027 (which is already a few months old).

                                                                         

                                                                        And when I stated that I saw "almost no performance improvement", I meant "in real-world use outside of benchmarks".

                                                                        • 34. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                          flyingfish4 Level 1

                                                                          RjL,

                                                                          May I please ask what formats you typically edit?  I'm trying to decide if I will need RAID 0 if I buy the 2600K.  I'll be only doing HDV for now with some enlarging, some dissolves, some light color correction, etc.  Nothing too demanding.  At some point I might do some 1 to 5 minute talking head stuff with a green screen and insert a background.  What do you think?

                                                                          • 35. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                            Not Randall, but me.

                                                                             

                                                                            The more disks you have in your system the better it is. Starting point is three disks. HDV is pretty easy on the computer and does not take a lot of space. However, if you often use AE and export uncompressed of with Lagarith or UT, then the disk requirements can go up. If you usually have multicam editing or a large number of tracks in your projects, disk requirements go up. If you occasionally edit 422 material, disk requirements may go up. It is all very dependent on your workflow, but with relatively simple projects in HDV format, you do not need a raid. For chroma keying HDV is not the ideal starting point, then 422 format would be much nicer but also more demanding in terms of disk I/O and then a raid0 would be very advantageous.

                                                                             

                                                                            I'm now using XF 50 422 material a lot more than HDV and it is noticable that the disk requirements are much heavier.

                                                                            • 36. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                              Islanders66 Level 1

                                                                              Like I said my only gripe is that Scott and ADK doesn't include the i7 980. Instead they only compare the 2600 to the 990x.    

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              1) 2600 = 4 core, 16 GB RAM, 16 PCI lanes.   $314 at Amazon

                                                                               

                                                                              2) 980  = 6 core, 24 GB RAM, 20 PCI lanes.  $580 at Amazon

                                                                               

                                                                              3) 990x = 6core, 24GB RAM, 20 PCI lanes.  $1,000 at Amazon

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              There is a significant difference in price between the 980 and 990x. Are you excluding the 980 because ADK doesn't offer it for sale? Or is there some other reason I'm not aware of? Also, I'm interested in any bench mark test that is open to the public. If not this is just a huge waste of time that is becoming counter productive for everyone involved.

                                                                              • 37. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                                Slight correction, options 2 and 3 have 36 PCIe lanes of which 32 are available for cards.

                                                                                • 38. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                                                  Islander,

                                                                                  there is no reason to include the 980. if the 2600 beat the 990 why add the 980?

                                                                                  thats like asking why we dont test a 2500.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  besides you can extrapolate and be within 99% of acuracy.

                                                                                  990 is 3.46 a 980 is 3.33 its a whopping 5% so a 980 will be 5% slower than a 990

                                                                                  and yes we sell the 980 its a very affordable answer to the overpriced 990x in fact its what we use for our 4GHz OC.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Scott

                                                                                  • 39. Re: i7-2600K & Sandy Bridge Won't Work With I/O Boxes & RAID Controllers?
                                                                                    Islanders66 Level 1

                                                                                    Scott, because in the link you posted above to support you claim that and "Video guys would be 100% incorrect." You state: "So i can not see nor justify any reason to continue buying an X58 platform unless you just like to spend $841 more for nothing!"

                                                                                     

                                                                                    That is true if you exclued the 980. But the 970 and 980 is a x58 and is $200 more than the 2600.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    As you also said the extra RAM and 2 cores would help out in AE. So how is the 2600 now "faster". They all perform well in the PBBM5, but even my 980 places above all the 2600 but one. The difference is a 10000 RPM drive to help put this into context.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Right now I wouldn't even have time to build my own system and overclock it, etc. So this tread is a bit limited to put everything into context except that there is no reason to exclude the 980 from a discussion if you are comparing hardware and claiming to have more accurate benchmarks.

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