14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 27, 2006 10:43 AM by Newsgroup_User

    latest visual technologies

    hope1 Level 1
      Dear Experts,

      I have been asked to use all the latest visual technologies in a new website. What would those be, or how could I find out?

      Sincerely,
      Hope
        • 1. Re: latest visual technologies
          hope1 Level 1
          I am thinking:

          -3 D, but which is the best program?
          -Movies, but are there variations to this, like interactive movies? What program would be good for that?

          ...and what else?

          I do know some Flash.

          Hope
          • 2. Re: latest visual technologies
            Level 7
            hope1 wrote:
            > Dear Experts,
            >
            > I have been asked to use all the latest visual technologies in a new website. What would those be, or how could I find out?
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > Hope

            ????
            "latest visual technologies" seems very vague and subjective a term, especially when it comes to web
            design. It depends on the kind of site you want to build, and on the purpose of the site.

            The web design "technology" is not especially visually oriented, but rather functional. The "latest"
            in terms of high-end, top of the top technology and trends in web design is valid html and valid
            CSS, good Search Engine Optimization, and user participation, interactivity/functionality, via AJAX
            (or applications that are both client-side and server-side, using javascript and some server-side
            scripting of your choice). None of these are especially "visual"-oriented, but rather functional,
            and user-centric.

            The only trully visually oriented technology in web design is Flash, but it is not a new or late
            trend, and it is most of the time (when used for "visual" effects rather than actual purpose) a
            waste of time and money.

            asking to use all the latest visual technologies in a website seems a pretty naive or mis-informed
            requirement.

            --
            seb ( ---@webtrans1.com)
            http://webtrans1.com | high-end web design
            Downloads: Slide Show, Directory Browser, Mailing List
            • 3. Re: latest visual technologies
              Level 7

              > -3 D, but which is the best program?

              It depends.

              > -Movies, but are there variations to this, like interactive movies?

              QT has some interactive tools, but it's not widely used.

              > What
              > program would be good for that?

              It depends.

              In the end, features for features sake is typically a really bad way to go
              about designing a web site.

              -Darrel


              • 4. Re: latest visual technologies
                Level 7
                hope1 wrote:
                > I have been asked to use all the latest visual technologies in a new
                > website. What would those be, or how could I find out?

                Don't answer the question, but rather go back to the client, and ask exactly
                what they want the website to do - not in technical terms, but in real life.
                e.g 'We want to sell our widgets'. Find out the demographics of their
                prospective audience, and what websites these customers use. Go back to the
                client with a proposal for a website that does what they need to do, and
                sells itself in the best way to their proposed customers. If the best
                solution involves using 'all the latest visual technologies', then so be
                it - but your research of the audience would have determined exactly what
                these technologies are.

                HTH,

                Pete.
                --
                Peter Connolly
                http://www.acutecomputing.co.uk
                Derby
                UK
                Skype ID: acutecomputing


                • 5. Re: latest visual technologies
                  hope1 Level 1
                  Dear Seb,

                  Thanks so much. This is very helpful to know. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. I feel greatly relieved to hear this.

                  The websites that were mention by the client were:
                  http://www.louisvuitton.com/
                  http://www.vancleef-arpels.com/en/
                  http://www.loewe.de/
                  http://www.chanel.com/
                  I thot to use the van cleef style site. From your great experience, is there anything more than Flash involved with that site?

                  These just seem to be mainly flash sites.

                  The product is honey, so a 3 D honey jar was mentioned by client. How would I find out which 3D program would be best?
                  Thank you again for your very kind and prompt reply. I really appreciate it.
                  Hope
                  • 6. Re: latest visual technologies
                    hope1 Level 1
                    Dear Darrel,

                    Thank you so much for your help and ideas. It is great to hear all the viewpoints. This client wants to use the site mainly for presentation purposes and conferences and fairs .... to make an impression on the viewer demonstrating the sophisticated / technologicallly savy position of the company.... at least that is my impression.

                    Thank you again. Hope
                    • 7. Re: latest visual technologies
                      hope1 Level 1
                      Dear PeteC,

                      Really appreciate the time and effort to have your viewpoint. Thank you so much.

                      Great advise. I will get back to the client.

                      Sincerely,
                      Hope
                      • 8. Re: latest visual technologies
                        Level 7
                        Annoyingly consistent the van cleef and the chanel site insomuch as though
                        both force full viewport browsers on the poor, unsuspecting user. Odd that
                        the can cleef site includes html navigation along with the flash navigation,
                        but all the content is flash, so what good is it.



                        > The product is honey, so a 3 D honey jar was mentioned by client. How
                        > would I
                        > find out which 3D program would be best?


                        No offense, but perhaps the client hasn't hired the best developer for the
                        job if you are asking these questions.
                        The skill set required for all these sites you reference is quite
                        advanced...especially if there is going to be some kind of 3D motion imagry
                        involved.



                        • 9. Re: latest visual technologies
                          Level 7
                          Additionally, anything "new" is tyipcally not great to put into production,
                          as it may require additional plug-ins or upgrades for your clients

                          (* i didn't read through all posts, this point might have already been made)


                          • 10. Re: latest visual technologies
                            engmix Level 1
                            I don't necessarily disagree with what has been said, it is true, functionality is the primary propose of a website.

                            But, These companies you have listed, they don't have to worry about SEO issues, and they certainly don't care if someone is handicapped. Their design is simply an esthetic statement. Perhaps that is the case with your client? They are fashion site's. And famous ones to boot.

                            I remember when music was changing from Analog to Digital, and everyone in my business, and some still do, moan on about how bad it is. But, the fact is, the technology is getting so good, that it's getting harder to decipher between the two. I think the same goes for web design. Most will chime on about how the changes are for the worse. But, progress can be painful. "I" have yet to hear from a non web designer (the average joe) complain about a Flash site having operational issues.

                            Again, I think that most of what has been said, I personally agree with at this time. But, as soon as web spiders are able to fully index Flash, I will be the first one to jump the DW / HTML / CSS ship, and design full sites using Flash. I love the visual dynamic of Flash.

                            My two cents.
                            • 11. Re: latest visual technologies
                              Level 7
                              engmix wrote:

                              >
                              > Again, I think that most of what has been said, I personally agree with at
                              > this time. But, as soon as web spiders are able to fully index Flash,

                              But this is probably not going to happen.
                              Because html and css, as *standard* technologies, offer a consistent structure between form and
                              content, that's why they can be indexed and ranked by search engines in a consistent, authentic and
                              relevant way. There are ways to cheat, (hidding layers for example) but Search engines can detect
                              these ways and penalize them. The ways to cheat are limited and they can be detected.

                              On the other hand, indexing flash content is not just a technological issue that search engines
                              should or will eventually overcome. The problem is somewhere else, it is that the Flash technology,
                              by its nature does NOT allow for relevant, authentic content indexing. Flash technology allows for
                              all kinds of ways to "cheat", to make content invisible to the viewer but visible to the search
                              engine. Everything is possible, in Flash. There are no limits or consistent ways on which the
                              content can be presented (or hidden).
                              The Flash technology is not ruled by such standards that the W3C imposes to html and css.
                              Even if Search engines could index flash content, there would be no way to trust the results. That's
                              why they probably will never index flash content, or if they do, it won't matter anyways, because
                              you won't be able to trust or efficiently use the results.

                              > I will be
                              > the first one to jump the DW / HTML / CSS ship, and design full sites using
                              > Flash. I love the visual dynamic of Flash.
                              >
                              > My two cents.
                              >


                              --
                              seb ( ---@webtrans1.com)
                              http://webtrans1.com | high-end web design
                              Downloads: Slide Show, Directory Browser, Mailing List
                              • 12. Re: latest visual technologies
                                Level 7
                                (_seb_) wrote:
                                > engmix wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >> Again, I think that most of what has been said, I personally agree
                                >> with at this time. But, as soon as web spiders are able to fully index
                                >> Flash,
                                >
                                >
                                > But this is probably not going to happen.
                                > Because html and css, as *standard* technologies, offer a consistent
                                > structure between form and content, that's why they can be indexed and
                                > ranked by search engines in a consistent, authentic and relevant way.
                                > There are ways to cheat, (hidding layers for example) but Search engines
                                > can detect these ways and penalize them. The ways to cheat are limited
                                > and they can be detected.
                                >
                                > On the other hand, indexing flash content is not just a technological
                                > issue that search engines should or will eventually overcome. The
                                > problem is somewhere else, it is that the Flash technology, by its
                                > nature does NOT allow for relevant, authentic content indexing. Flash
                                > technology allows for all kinds of ways to "cheat", to make content
                                > invisible to the viewer but visible to the search engine. Everything is
                                > possible, in Flash. There are no limits or consistent ways on which the
                                > content can be presented (or hidden).
                                > The Flash technology is not ruled by such standards that the W3C imposes
                                > to html and css.
                                > Even if Search engines could index flash content, there would be no way
                                > to trust the results. That's why they probably will never index flash
                                > content, or if they do, it won't matter anyways, because you won't be
                                > able to trust or efficiently use the results.
                                >
                                >> I will be the first one to jump the DW / HTML / CSS ship, and design
                                >> full sites using Flash. I love the visual dynamic of Flash.
                                >> My two cents.
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                a good analogy, is javascript (Flash actionScript is very similar to javascript).
                                Search engines will never "index" javascript. Not because it's impossible, but because it just does
                                not make sense. Because it cannot be trusted through a standardized relationship between
                                presentation and content.

                                --
                                seb ( ---@webtrans1.com)
                                http://webtrans1.com | high-end web design
                                Downloads: Slide Show, Directory Browser, Mailing List
                                • 13. Re: latest visual technologies
                                  Level 7
                                  > But this is probably not going to happen.
                                  > Because html and css, as *standard* technologies, offer a consistent
                                  > structure between form and content, that's why they can be indexed and
                                  > ranked by search engines in a consistent, authentic and relevant way.
                                  > There are ways to cheat, (hidding layers for example) but Search
                                  > engines can detect these ways and penalize them. The ways to cheat are
                                  > limited and they can be detected.

                                  I agree with you about Flash. In my opinion it should be used only for
                                  non-mission-critical page components. Your comment about hidden
                                  "Layers", however, is a bit mis-leading. Search engines might be able to
                                  tell a "Layer" is hidden if you write the styles on the actual tag.
                                  Search engines cannot parse through an external or embedded style sheet
                                  and start arbitrarily penalizing because it would not be able to know
                                  the purpose for the element being hidden. What a search engine
                                  alogorithm can do is it can look at the markup for trends or patterns
                                  that indicate keyword pumping.

                                  There are far too many legends and baloney circulating about SEO. We
                                  don't need any more :-)


                                  --
                                  Al Sparber
                                  PVII
                                  http://www.projectseven.com

                                  "Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
                                  mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs
                                  are scheduled for next Tuesday".





                                  • 14. Re: latest visual technologies
                                    Level 7
                                    On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:36:40 +0200, "(_seb_)" <seb@webtrans1.com> wrote:

                                    >should or will eventually overcome. The problem is somewhere else, it is that the Flash technology,
                                    >by its nature does NOT allow for relevant, authentic content indexing. Flash technology allows for
                                    >all kinds of ways to "cheat", to make content invisible to the viewer but visible to the search
                                    >engine. Everything is possible, in Flash. There are no limits or consistent ways on which the
                                    >content can be presented (or hidden).


                                    Just my own opinion, but I don't think that is really the issue. The
                                    real issue, as I see it, is that there is no way to link to the specific
                                    indexed content. If someone searches for "widget" and the word widget is
                                    contained in an html page, the search engine can generate a link to the
                                    page that contains the word widget. If it were a Flash site, there would
                                    be no reliable method for linking to the specific section of the Flash
                                    movie that contained the word widget. The user could only be dumped into
                                    the home page and left to their own skills in navigating the site to
                                    find what they were looking for.

                                    Gary