8 Replies Latest reply on Oct 23, 2011 6:52 AM by Rayven Wolfe

    InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying

    Rayven Wolfe

      Hello,

       

      I am in college and Indesign is the software we use for our projects.  The version we have is CS4.  This is the second project where I've had an issue with the justification.  I can use the justification icons at the top to move the text where I want it after applying the paragraph style, but this causes the little override + to show up and that's not allowed.  My instructor says we should use the style itself.  I'm happy to do that and have found the justification area in the paragraph style setup, however, no matter what justification I specify (with the text highlighted and preview enabled), the text does not move.  I've also set it, applied it then gotten back to the document just in case it was a preview-only error but it still doesn't change.

       

      Do I need to justify everything THEN apply the paragraph style to get around this?  If the justify option in the paragraph style settings doesn't actually move the text, what is it's intended purpose?

       

      Thank you in advance for your assistance.

        • 1. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
          Michael Gianino Level 4

          It's hard to say without seeing what you have. Can you make a screenshot similar to this one:

           

          Screen shot 2011-10-22 at 3.47.51 AM.png

           

          In this screenshot, you can see the text that is being styled with hidden characters showing (Type>Show Hidden Characters), the Story Editor (Edit>Edit in Story Editor), the Indents and Spacing tab of the Paragraph Style Options window, and the justification buttons at the top of the screen.

          • 2. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
            Rayven Wolfe Level 1

            Thank you, Michael!

             

            I see you are under the "Indents and Spacing" settings and not the "Justification" settings.  I kept trying to apply from the "Justification" settings and nothing at all happened.  When I went to the "Indents and Spacing" menu instead, it works perfectly.

             

            It does still beg the question, if the "Justifications" settings don't actually justify anything, what is their purpose?

            • 3. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
              Michael Gianino Level 4

              Do you mean this justification tab?

               

              SS1.png

               

              If so, I think it's purpose is to set the behavior of how single-word paragraphs are displayed when full justification is applied. In the previous screen shot, the third line of the paragraph is a single word (Obitatur), and all of the text is set to Full Justify (if you hover your cursor over the justification icons at the top of the screen, it's the one that reads: Justify all lines). Here, you can see that all of the letters are justified across the text frame, because Single Word Justification is set to Full Justify. Here are a few other examples:

               

              Screen shot 2011-10-22 at 4.54.22 AM.png

              Screen shot 2011-10-22 at 4.54.31 AM.png

              Screen shot 2011-10-22 at 4.54.41 AM.png

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              • 4. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Rayven Wolfe wrote:

                 

                Thank you, Michael!

                 

                I see you are under the "Indents and Spacing" settings and not the "Justification" settings.  I kept trying to apply from the "Justification" settings and nothing at all happened.  When I went to the "Indents and Spacing" menu instead, it works perfectly.

                 

                It does still beg the question, if the "Justifications" settings don't actually justify anything, what is their purpose?

                The main purpose for the justifications settings are to set limits for how much InDesign will adjust spacing between words or characters or whether glyphs will be scaled, in order to fill a line from edge to edge -- which is what Justiifed means -- text fills the columns and is flush both left and right. Centered, ragged left, or ragged right text are better referred to as "aligned." It doesn't help, though, that ID is inconsistnet in how it names alignement options in the panels.

                • 5. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
                  Rayven Wolfe Level 1

                  Yes, that is the tab I kept trying to use.  From your examples, I can see the difference now.

                   

                  My current project is to do a 2 page magazine layout (facing pages) with content the instructor supplied.  We are to use the Master Sheet functionality in order to set up the basics of the page.  While we are only producing 2 pages, he wanted us to think of the Master Pages applying to an entire magazine.

                   

                  The issue I was having was on the right side page, trying to right align some little date or whatever that should be in the top right corner of the page.  Fortunately, it's all worked out now and my next battle has been trying to get the body text to accept the paragraph style I'm trying to apply (from the actual pages, not the master pages).

                   

                  But that's another story.  I'm doing fine in the class but it's so harrowing how much time I waste just poking around trying to find things or (as in this case), expecting a feature to behave one way when it wants to do something else.  It sure does put a damper on the creativity aspect.  But that's the point of the class.

                   

                  Thank you again for your rapid reply.

                  • 6. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
                    Rayven Wolfe Level 1

                    Thank you for your response, Peter.

                     

                    I know in my own head, for whatever reason, alignment and justification seem to mean the same thing.  I know that full justify spreads the text to the boundries and I also knew there were ways to alter the behavior of that functionality.  I think I would have looked under the "Justification" settings if I had to make such an alteration.

                     

                    I think too, I mentally conceive of justification being for text and alignment being for graphics.

                     

                    I've never used InDesign before and it has a bit of a learning curve.  I can see how it has potential to be very useful once one gets facile enough with the controls.

                    • 7. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
                      M Blackburn Level 3

                      'I know in my own head, for whatever reason, alignment and justification seem to mean the same thing."

                       

                      That is a popular misconception, they don't mean the same thing at all. I think the misconception comes from early word processors and their programmers not knowing typesetting terminology.

                       

                      Type is either aligned (flushed) or justified. Flushed is the more traditional (and more accurate) way of saying aligned, and traditional typesetters would say "flush left, ragged right" or "flush right, ragged left."  Centred text is actually flush centre, though no one would bother to describe it that way. What flushed means is that after the length of the text is subtracted from the line length, the left over space is used  to flush the text one way or the other so that all the lines align at one or other of the margins.

                       

                      The difference between flush and justified text, is that in justified text, that extra space is distributed evenly between the words and characters to justify (or expand) the text to the exact line length -- ie. make it fill out the line exactly so that it aligns to both margins. This is where the justification controls that you were mistaking for the justify command come in. They allow the designer to fine tune how that extra space is used. Perhaps they want to restrict how large the word spacing will expand to justify the line, so they increase the amount of letter spacing allowable. Both values (and the glyph scaling) are a range, and by tweaking these values they can also control the overall consistency of the spacing of the text.

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                      • 8. Re: InDesign CS4 - Paragraph Style - Justification not applying
                        Rayven Wolfe Level 1

                        "That is a popular misconception, they don't mean the same thing at all. I think the misconception comes from early word processors and their programmers not knowing typesetting terminology."

                         

                        That could very well be the case.  I am just the right age to have been using those crazy "new" word processors at their inception.  I recall their eerie amber-monochrome screens lighting up a room in my high school back in the day.  Thank you for your further explanation on the matter!