1 2 Previous Next 52 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2011 8:21 AM by cvid01

    Exporting to DVD for Encore

    literally_figurative Level 1

      Hi all, I have been doing a lot of reading and have been trying to resist making a new topic, but I think I can't help it anymore, so here it goes.

       

      I previously got a crash course in exporting from within Premiere to Encore here - http://forums.adobe.com/thread/857030

       

      I used workflow 1 and reported getting good results. That project was under an hour. I am now dealing with wedding videos that go on past an hour and would like some more help, if possibly, though I think I have managed to stumble my way through quite a bit.

       

      The footage being used is DSLR at full 1920x1080 and I simply exported to MPEG-2 DVD using "Match Source Attributes (High Quality)" from the dropdown menu.

       

      I then checked "Use Max Render Quality" and after 9+ hours I got a final product. When I looked at it in Encore, however, I found the results to be less than favorable. Text seemed to be blocky and skimming through, some things seemed pixelated.

       

      I was really discouraged by this but decided to burn it and test anyway. Results were not AS bad as I thought, and I figure there may have been an issue looking at the DVD resolution video on my 1080 monitor. Things are bound to look ugly.

       

      So the footage does not look too bad, I think the average Joe won't complain much. I did notice some areas where there was a bit of flicker, like say, intricate wickar furniture.

       

      Question 1: Am I to assume that this is on account of the bitrate and how it was budgeted?

       

      My minimum bitrate was 2.8.

      Max was 7 and target was 5.

       

      The entire film (wedding) is an hour and ten minutes and with those settings it says the output would be 3292MB - and the audio and video file came up to  3.21GB (duh)

       

      Question 2: Can I adjust some settings to maybe bump up the file size? Since I have a 4.7GB DVD disc to play with, can I not make the overall file be close to the capacity and get even higher quality video? How best should I do this?

       

      Question 3: What should I be selecting for Pixel Aspect Ratio? 16:9 or 4:3, considering it is DSLR footage going to SD DVD?

       

      Question 4: If I want to add things like extra features, or, full speeches, I am guessing I should just do a 2nd disc? For future reference.

       

      I appreciate any input that can be given, and since all my searching on the forums didn't find these specific questions (assuming I'm not just bad at searching) maybe others will get some help out of this as well in future.

        • 1. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          The footage being used is DSLR at full 1920x1080 and I simply exported to MPEG-2 DVD using "Match Source Attributes (High Quality)" from the dropdown menu.

          I don't understand using "match source attributes" when those are very different from the export. Pick the NTSC (or PAL if that is what it is) High Quality Widescreen.

           

          Question 1: Am I to assume that this is on account of the bitrate and how it was budgeted?

           

          My minimum bitrate was 2.8.

          Max was 7 and target was 5.

           

          Question 2: Can I adjust some settings to maybe bump up the file size? Since I have a 4.7GB DVD disc to play with, can I not make the overall file be close to the capacity and get even higher quality video? How best should I do this?

           

          Question 3: What should I be selecting for Pixel Aspect Ratio? 16:9 or 4:3, considering it is DSLR footage going to SD DVD?

          Increase the target rate; that is what will determine file size.  Remember you will need some space for menus. If not motion menus, it will not be much if you r extras are not on this disk.

          • 2. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
            literally_figurative Level 1

            WRT "Match Source Attributes" I am guessing people say go with that if you don't understand all the settings properly? For example, with your suggestion, should I go with:

             

            NTSC Progressive High Quality?

            Or what about 23.976 Widescreen High Quality? (The Footage is in this framerate)

            Or plain old NTSC Widescreen High Quality

             

             

            As you can see, this can be quite confusing for those not in the know.

             

            From what I can tell, my menu takes up 526kb as encore puts it, that is the amount used for "DVD-ROM content."

             

            If I up the target bitrate to 7 I get an estimated file size of 4300MB. In other words, targe and max are the same, with minimum bitrate at 2.8

             

            For lack of a better term - is this....safe? Or should minimum be increased a bit with target scaled back as well?

            • 3. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
              digitlman Level 1

              You really must increase your bitrate, you are not even using the whole disk. you picked a max of 7Mbit but if you only have 70 mins of video then you should be able to do a CBR Constant 8Mbit and still fit (and render WAAAAAY faster). Or you could dynamic link from premiere and it will automatically fill the disk for you.

              • 4. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Either let Encore figure out the encode settings or use this DVD-HQ  Bitrate & GOP calculator

                • 5. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                  digitlman Level 1

                  literally_figurative wrote:

                   

                  WRT "Match Source Attributes" I am guessing people say go with that if you don't understand all the settings properly? For example, with your suggestion, should I go with:

                   

                  NTSC Progressive High Quality?

                  Or what about 23.976 Widescreen High Quality? (The Footage is in this framerate)

                  Or plain old NTSC Widescreen High Quality

                   

                   

                  As you can see, this can be quite confusing for those not in the know.

                   

                  From what I can tell, my menu takes up 526kb as encore puts it, that is the amount used for "DVD-ROM content."

                   

                  If I up the target bitrate to 7 I get an estimated file size of 4300MB. In other words, targe and max are the same, with minimum bitrate at 2.8

                   

                  For lack of a better term - is this....safe? Or should minimum be increased a bit with target scaled back as well?

                  The real questions is what does your client want? you are creating a widescreen HD 1080p video and downconverting it to SD DVD. You are i am assuming wanting a anamorphic SD letterboxed DVD that they will play on their hdtv set in low quality dvd format?

                   

                  If so then NTSC widescreen is your output. You also chose to shoot in 24fps mode. Is that because your client wants the "film look"? Does your client want a 24fps progressive dvd to give them that horrible "film look" that everyone loves so much? then pick the progressive setting.

                   

                  and to clarify again, anytime you have 60minutes or less then you should always choose 9Mbit CBR for fastest rendering and max quality as it will always fit. I personally would never consider VBR settings until i hit about 80 minutes of footage.

                   

                  good luck

                  • 6. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                    literally_figurative Level 1

                    Well yes, I have realised 1, that dealing with over an hour of footage brings with it different challenges compared to less than an hour. I also realized that I need to try filling the disc up!

                     

                    Harm, would you laugh at me if I Said I was afraid to do it with dynamic link and would rather export, for now?

                     

                    My clients just wants something looking "good". Once it doesn't look like draft quality or largely pixelated I should be fine.  I didn't shoot, but it was shot at 24/23.976

                     

                    What I want is a DVD that will play in a standard DVD player, and not have any black bars on the left or right no matter if I play off an HDTV or an old school TV. As I understand it, since it's shot in full HD, that makes it 16:9, therefore bringing it down to 4:3 aspect ratio, which will give it black bars to the top, correct? This is where I get confused with the Pixel Aspect Ratio, being unsure if to choose 4:3 or 16:9.

                     

                    Anamorphic...as I understand it (not very well) means the pixels will adjust to what you are watching on? Meaning it should look fine if you watch on an HDTV or a tube TV?

                     

                     

                     

                    As for what you mentioned about the 9Mbit CBR for video less than an hour - from what I read, you shouldn't exceed 7 or 8 max bitrate for DVDs, not so?


                    Harm, I appreciate that link, but that is way more complicated than what I need. If I am right with the not exceeding 7 or 8 for max bitrate, would I be wrong to just choose the CBR option? At CBR 7.5 it is telling me I will get a final output of 4551 MB which leaves a nice but of room for the menu, and I imagine will be much better quality than what I have on the current DVD I am testing on the TV. (As suggested before.)

                    • 7. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                      digitlman Level 1

                      literally_figurative wrote:

                       

                      Well yes, I have realised 1, that dealing with over an hour of footage brings with it different challenges compared to less than an hour. I also realized that I need to try filling the disc up!

                       

                      Harm, would you laugh at me if I Said I was afraid to do it with dynamic link and would rather export, for now?

                       

                      My clients just wants something looking "good". Once it doesn't look like draft quality or largely pixelated I should be fine.  I didn't shoot, but it was shot at 24/23.976

                       

                      What I want is a DVD that will play in a standard DVD player, and not have any black bars on the left or right no matter if I play off an HDTV or an old school TV. As I understand it, since it's shot in full HD, that makes it 16:9, therefore bringing it down to 4:3 aspect ratio, which will give it black bars to the top, correct? This is where I get confused with the Pixel Aspect Ratio, being unsure if to choose 4:3 or 16:9.

                       

                      Anamorphic...as I understand it (not very well) means the pixels will adjust to what you are watching on? Meaning it should look fine if you watch on an HDTV or a tube TV?

                       

                       

                       

                      As for what you mentioned about the 9Mbit CBR for video less than an hour - from what I read, you shouldn't exceed 7 or 8 max bitrate for DVDs, not so?


                      Harm, I appreciate that link, but that is way more complicated than what I need. If I am right with the not exceeding 7 or 8 for max bitrate, would I be wrong to just choose the CBR option? At CBR 7.5 it is telling me I will get a final output of 4551 MB which leaves a nice but of room for the menu, and I imagine will be much better quality than what I have on the current DVD I am testing on the TV. (As suggested before.)

                      Well if you make it 16:9 then you can watch it fullscreen on a hdtv or letterboxed on a 4:3 tv. anamorphic means it fills up the whole image area and then displays it properly (basically it is the highest quality and is how all commercial movie dvd's are created)

                       

                      all dvd players have the settings built in to determine how the dvd should be displayed, full, letterboxed, pan&scan.

                       

                      I am not sure where your reading about dvd bitrates but 9.5 is the max dvd bitrate and you should ALWAYS get as close to it as you can. higher is better and there is no reason to go lower.

                      • 8. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                        Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                        I am not sure where your reading about dvd bitrates but 9.5 is the max dvd bitrate and you should ALWAYS get as close to it as you can. higher is better and there is no reason to go lower.

                        More experts on the Encore forum recommend a max video datarate in the 8 range than 9.5 when output is for burned disks. Replicated disks are another matter.

                         

                        Remember that the max being set for a "cbr" (or vbr) is the video rate only. The max combined rate (all streams) in Encore must be set to be compatible with whatever is selected for the transcode.The max setting in Encore is 9.4.

                        • 9. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                          digitlman Level 1

                          Right, that is because the actual dvd max bitrate is 10mbit total so encore locks you at 9.4 to leave room for the audio.

                          • 10. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                            literally_figurative Level 1

                            Just in general reading around the net, the consensus seems to be going over 8 runs the risk of not playing in DVD players. I'm just trying to learn the right thing, regardless.

                             

                            I understand your explanation of anamorphic, so I'll choose "NTSC Widescreen High Quality" as the preset.

                            I'm choosing the framerate as 23.976 since that is what the footage as shot in.

                            Leaving field order as non (progressive) as that was default.

                            Pixel Aspect ratio I am still unsure about, but default and widescreen seem to be one and the same, so going with that over 4:3

                            CBR of 8 crosses 4.7GB so I am going with a CBR of 7.5 to give me 4.5GB

                             

                            M and N frames in GOP settings (No clue what these are) will remain at 3 and 15.

                             

                            In the preview window I see black bars to the left and right, but I assume these will not show when the final DVD is burned.

                             

                            So, how do these settings look? Going to export this and do a test burn and see what quality I get. I will then, after, do a dynamic link with Encore and test out.

                             

                            Is it unwise to basically try to see how high of a CBR I can get? Or is there something for budgeting with minimum, maximum and target as opposed to CBR?

                             

                            And I do believe I still need some schooling on the PAR option when exporting to DVD. When I export for the web, what I see is what I get but for DVD, the PAR is a pain to understand.

                             

                            I appreciate the help thus far, guys!

                            • 11. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                              digitlman Level 1

                              Sounds like you will be fine. I still have never heard of 9Mbit disks having problems myself, I have been authoring dvd's since the very first $17,000 pioneer recorder came out. I have authored thousands of 9mbit cbr video rate + audio dvd's for over a decade and have never had one not play on any dvd player. It is a requirement for all dvd players created to handle 10mbit data rate or they can't be certified as an actual player. the slowest 1x speed spec for dvd is 11mbit.

                               

                              that being said im sure there are people out there in the world with broken dvd players with weak motors or something that cant play beyond 5mbit data rates or something, anything is possible... However 99.9% of all the problems you may find on the internet regarding dvd playback problems are due to low quality cheap dvd-r with poor quality dye's that have problems especially near the outer edge of the disks.

                               

                              you should consider trying this page: http://www.videohelp.com/calc  it is very simple, type in the time and change the audio rate if needed. it tells you your max calculated rate.

                               

                              good luck

                              • 12. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                encore locks you at 9.4 to leave room for the audio.

                                I don't know why they use that rate, but that is the combined max.

                                • 13. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  CBR of 8 crosses 4.7GB so I am going with a CBR of 7.5 to give me 4.5GB

                                  That is the right strategy if going with CBR. Since you can't keep your max, that is also the time to consider VBR. That allows peak rates to the max you pick.

                                   

                                  In the preview window I see black bars to the left and right, but I assume these will not show when the final DVD is burned.

                                  I don't recall the latest. Some users crop a few pixels (top and bottom?) to remove the small black lines.

                                   

                                  Pixel Aspect ratio I am still unsure about, but default and widescreen seem to be one and the same, so going with that over 4:3

                                  The 4:3 and 16:9 is DAR: Display Aspect Ratio. The PAR relates to the little black lines, but the default (1.212) is what you want.

                                   

                                  Going to export this and do a test burn and see what quality I get. I will then, after, do a dynamic link with Encore and test out.

                                  Absolutely do the test. (I would first do a small sample to check the black bars issue.) Some users are not liking dynamic link. I use it, but don't do much downrezing. You might trying by setting the Encore transcoding (using AME) as you've worked your settings out.

                                  • 14. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                    literally_figurative Level 1

                                    Digitalman, I really appreciate your input. I am having a greater understanding through this thread and my experimentation. I had not considered the quality of the media. Yes, I know some brands may be cheaper than others, but I have never been able to find discs on par with what you might purchase Hollywood films on. As it is I have some Verbatims to test with. If I could find high quality blank discs that allow me to print directly on to them, I'd purchase them.

                                     

                                    Also this goes along with my reading abou the max bitrate @ 8 for players, I had read that DL discs can also be problematic. I have some DL discs. If I were to use these, then I could surely sustain a CBR of 10 and have room for extra features. So, silly question, but are DL discs prone to being more problematic for people? I have a cheap DVD player and a Playstation3 to do my testing on. This is stuff I will experiment with.

                                     

                                    Approx 5 more hours on my 7.5 CBR export remaining, then I can burn and see how it looks and report back on the results.

                                    • 15. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                      AsianOcean.com Level 1

                                      Another quick way to determine you are not going beyond the capacity of the disk is to UNcheck audio export and look at the file size at the bottom left of the export window. Depending on the length of the project I go upto 4.15 (video only) there, and then CHECK audio before exporting. It will initially show more than 5gig file size but that is including the wav file being exported. The wav file in Encore will be converted to Dolby and reduced to about 1/10th or so, which will fit in the final DVD. When exporting from HD for SD make sure you export PROGRESSIVE for better picture quality.

                                      • 16. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                        literally_figurative Level 1

                                        Oh that's a neat idea. I need to go back through this thread and come up with the different experiments I need to test.

                                         

                                        It's funny, in all my Googling, I've found how to use Encore, how to use premiere, how to export, but have not been able to find "How to export HD to SD if you have over an hour of video" going through the nuances. This thread may be of real help to people, I hope.

                                         

                                        AsianOcean, so how much ABOVE 4.7GB then do you think is safe? Or would you say the 4.15 is as far as you push it with video only?

                                         

                                        Yeah, I've figured progressive was the option to take, namely because when I look at the preview of the final image, I don't get any interlacing lines.

                                        • 17. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                          digitlman Level 1

                                          Another tip, if you really have this massive project that takes many hours to render then you are wasting a ton of time rendering test files. you need to either render out an intermediary file or preview render in premiere (green line) and then check the "use preview files" in your export so it just encodes the mpeg2 and doesnt re-render your project every time. a decent system should render a simple dvd in under an hour for sure. My systems render much faster then that.

                                          • 18. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                            literally_figurative Level 1

                                            I haven't redered any test files. This is just my second render, the first was with the settings in my first post of this thread. Given that I burned that to a disc and the results were OK and I had not even filled the disc, I figured going at CBR 7.5 should give me a sufficient end product. So, I'm actually hoping that all I learned helped me make a wise decision in that, because I'd like to use this very render when it is done, and make the DVD menu to deliver this product on Monday. (Premade DVD templates are life savers)

                                             

                                            If for some reason something is messed up (hoping not since I think I listened to all the advice given) I will try dynamic link.

                                             

                                            Not familiar with the "use preview files" - firing up premiere now to see if I find it. Always glad to learn more tips. 8 hours isn't so bad, the very first wedding I did in January took a few days to render....

                                             

                                            I'm currently using Win7 64bit, Core i7 950 @ 3GHz, 12GB RAM and a GTX 470 card. I can live witht he 8 over a few days.

                                             

                                            Forgive my ignorance, but how would rendering an intermediate file help me for testing the DVD? I can render out a version of this same project for the web in well under an hour (for someone else to take a look at the editing side of things), but since it is specifically the DVD and how it looks on TV that I am concerned with, how would exporting to something other than what I intend to do for the final workflow help?

                                             

                                            P.S I found "use previews" in the Export Settings dialogue. I have never bothered with it since I have never seen anyone mention to use it. Is there any potential for something to go wrong using it? If not, then why isn't that just standard?

                                            • 19. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                              literally_figurative Level 1

                                              The second to last reply on this thread speaks to "use preview files" http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/909581

                                              • 20. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                digitlman Level 1

                                                It of course depends on your workflow and needs. If your project is completely done you can render it ONCE with all your complicated effects and filters and graphics and whatever is taking up so much time. Then you have the pre-rendered file you can quickly export to any format you need. dvd, bluray, youtube, tape, ipad, etc... if your client asks you for another medium then it wont take as long to render. Using preview files are just a built in way of doing that. However it would not be used 100% of the time as it depends on what your preview settings are, as they are variable and could be anything from lossless to low quality.

                                                 

                                                remember that exporting in premiere is doing TWO things, 1: it is rendering your source video and 2: it is encoding it to your destination format. The bulk of rendering time is tied up in #1 so you can do that step once then do all the others faster when needed.

                                                 

                                                Of course if you are just rendering for client approval you would not do this as you would expect to make changes, but if its done and finallized then render out a master version to encode.

                                                • 21. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                  literally_figurative Level 1

                                                  Well, good(ish) news to report. The video looks pretty good. I don't think the client will have complaints in terms of the quality. There seems to be some very minor banding, sometimes, on intricate parts like wickar as I mentioned earlier, but it could just be me.

                                                   

                                                  I am using a template I purchased, and followed all instructions, and now have a strange error - after the first chapter the video goes to the main menu. So I am unsure how to proceed since I am new with Encore. Seems I may have accidentally set the first chapter marker's end action to go back to the menu. So...am I supposed to go through and link the end action of each chapter to go to the next chapter? For the final chapter, am I to make that go to the main menu, or can I set those actions to the actual timeline?

                                                   

                                                  So I guess the question is, for the full movie to play, is it standard for each chapter to have no end action set?

                                                   

                                                  I think I may try the trick to export with unchecking audio to maybe squeeze a bit more out of the datarate.

                                                   

                                                  Any suggestions for a minimum bitrate if I decide to do a VBR? VBR1 or 2 preferred?

                                                   

                                                  Much progress has been made!

                                                  • 22. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                    literally_figurative Level 1

                                                    So, again for experimentation purposes I am going to export another version as I go to bed. I'm using AsianOcean's suggestion, and unchecking audio I am going to bump video only to a bitrate of 8.3, up from 7.5, to give me 4181mb video only, and 4954mb with audio.

                                                    Audio only is 773mb for anyone interested.

                                                     

                                                    The last export was 7.5 CBR and the output files cumulatively were 4.46 GB. In Encore it shows that those files on disc would come up to 4.35 GB with 352mb free. So there's something to be said for audio.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Here are the settings of this encode for anyone interested.

                                                     

                                                    Format: MPEG2-DVD

                                                    Preset: NTSC Progressive Widescreen High Quality (I know the suggestion earlier was Widescreen, I'm choosing the progressive option per AsianOcean's suggestion. Please advise if this will yield some difference compared to selecting just "NTSC Widescreen High Quality"

                                                    Quality: Slider at 4

                                                    NTSC

                                                    Frame Rate changed to 23.976

                                                    Pixel Aspect Ratio: Widescreen 16:9 (1.212)

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Bitrate switched the CBR @ 8.3

                                                    "Use Max Render Quality" is checked.

                                                     

                                                    Will I regret this and end up over the size of the disc? I sure hope not! We'll see in the AM.

                                                    • 23. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                      AsianOcean.com Level 1

                                                      Hello literally_figurative

                                                      My projects are usually 1hr 20 or 30 minutes so around 4.15 works for me. It depends mainly on the length of your project because the audio will be dependent on that. I don't have the exact numbers with me at the moment but hopefully you have not pushed it too much Even 5 megs over could make you render again. Sorry I did not check back before just now. Hope it works out for you by morning. Btw, I am reluctant to push it beyond 7 at the high end for fear of the client's DVD player stuttering. If they want better quality I tell them that there is no comparison with HD/Blu-ray. While editing in HD I find myself talking to my monitor, "Look at that picture... geez! How does it do it!" Of course my monitor doesn't talk back because it can't stand my praising the camera.

                                                      Good luck with your project.

                                                      • 24. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                        literally_figurative Level 1

                                                        Hahaha! Wit so much editing the monitor can be your best friend at times, eh?

                                                         

                                                        What you're saying sort of contradicts what digitalman was saying, that there should be no issues with going over 7. But 7 is your max? I'll keep that in mind since I need to test on older players. I just found the image quality at times maybe didn't hold up, but it could just be me. I may have to get a non-techie to look at it.

                                                         

                                                        I'm thinking maybe it is best to get a BD burner. Is that workflow any better, assuming you edit to that as well? Unsure which burners are best, and would need to get blank media that I can print directly too, but for the quality concerns, it would be great to not worry about it at all. Hmm, I wonder.

                                                        • 25. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                          AsianOcean.com Level 1

                                                          I am not saying Digitalman is wrong, but I am just being careful not to instigate such possibilities. A couple of months ago I did push it to may be 8, and the client complained that his player is showing pixelated video at times. But I have seen a very bad player at his place so I am not concluding that the bitrate was the culprit. I wrote and asked him if he had tried in other players to which I never got any reply. So my 'experiments' are inconclusive. I chickened out and went back to 'old school' after that.
                                                          BD workflow is at a stage where DVD was about 8 years ago. Render overnight and stuff, if you have multiple cameras and color corrections etc. But straight jobs of about two hours length will render in about two hours, depending on your machine. Then Encore will take about 30 or 45 min to design and create the disc image. Burning is another 20 to 25 minutes. Burners are around $100 now. I am using LGs without problems. Printable BD media is abound. I am still not finding glossy printable though. I like the glossy DVD blanks, create a great first impression as the client opens the case! I am a graphic artist so a nicely designed cover and face is important to me. And it does add to the product.

                                                          • 26. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                            literally_figurative Level 1

                                                            I agreee about having a nice physical product, which is why I have been harping on getting blank printable DVDs. The client who I edit weddings for apparently just gets stickers and slaps them on discs, but I understand the weight can be a problem on some players, not to mention potentially peeling off. Printing direct to disc just looks so much nicer. I am NOT a graphic artist, so that's why I went ahead and bought a pre-made template that also has the box and disc templates for me as well. Just change text, insert images and I'm good to go.

                                                             

                                                            WIth BD, do you have the bitrate problem as with DVD? What's the upper limit? But I guess once you go with something like 12 then you're home free, or am I assuming wrong since I am thinking of DVD resolution?

                                                             

                                                            (DVD res at 12 would be great quality, I imagine, but at full 1920x1080 I wonder if that will be the case? I then wonder if say, a CBR of 20 might bring up the same arguments that some Blu Ray players can't handle over a certain bitrate)

                                                             

                                                            How splendidly confusing. All I wanted to do was edit ha!

                                                             

                                                            Luckily the template I bought has HD menus, so it is BD ready. If I knew which burners were the best I'd pick one up right away. Especially if this whole bitrate thing can go away using Blu Ray discs, I would buy one off amazon tomorrow along with the printable blank media if I can find it.

                                                             

                                                            This seems to be the top right now http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-BDR-206DBK-Internal-Blu-ray-Writer/dp/B004ILKH64/ref=sr_1_1? s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1319693523&sr=1-1

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            P.S - 5 hours to go on render!

                                                            • 27. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                              digitlman Level 1

                                                              set your qualiy slider to 5 (highest)

                                                               

                                                              dvd max bitrate is 10Mbit, bluray max is 54Mbit

                                                              • 28. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                literally_figurative Level 1

                                                                So, 2 problems arose.

                                                                 

                                                                1. I was getting some interlacing lines on that export...not sure why. Possibly because I chose NTSC Progressive Widescreen High Quality instead of "NTSC Widescreen High Quality"

                                                                2. The project exceeded the final limit

                                                                 

                                                                So rendering one final one that had I really need to work out. Not gonna risk the putting it larger than a disc thing this time.

                                                                 

                                                                The settings:

                                                                 

                                                                MPEG-2 DVD

                                                                NTSC Widescreen High Quality

                                                                Quality Slider all the way to 5

                                                                Framerate: Automatic Based on source

                                                                Field order: none (progressive)

                                                                Pixel Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (1.212)

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Bitrate 7.5

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Use Max Quality Checked

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                I'm just curious. Since I set up my disc all the way and essentially just want to burn, is there a way I could replace this new render when I am done with the new render, keeping all the settings, chapter markers, etc that I did? Or would I have to go from scratch again?

                                                                • 29. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                  AsianOcean.com Level 1

                                                                  So did you have the Video (only) file size showing more than 4.15 gigs in the export that went beyond the capacity of the disk? Field order: non (progressive) and  NTSC Progressive Widescreen HQ are essentially the same. In your Encore project you can replace the video by right-clicking on tthe file name. No need to import audio if you did not make any changes from previous. Everything else will remain the same. It will recreate the disc image (or write a disc).

                                                                  • 30. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                    literally_figurative Level 1

                                                                    I believe I had it at 4.15 exact, per your suggestion. What I ended up doing was burning it to a dual layer disc, just to see how it looks. It looked pretty good. I am wondering if I can get away with giving Dual Layer discs to clients - sort of along the lines of the bitrate issue, if their players can handle it or if there are problems to be had.

                                                                     

                                                                    The 7.5 bitrate version is what ended up shipping out the door.

                                                                     

                                                                    So, now I am thinking it may be best to do things that are over an hour at a CBR of 8 and burning to a DL disc.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                      The vast majority of Hollywood DVD's are DL (DVD-9's). All certified DVD players have to play replicated (very important) DVD-9's, and most will play properly burned DVD-9's too. I would use high-quality media, and burn at less than the max burn speed. You should be fine.

                                                                       

                                                                      With Verbatim DVD-9's, I have yet to have a single return.

                                                                       

                                                                      Good luck,

                                                                       

                                                                      Hunt

                                                                      • 32. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                        literally_figurative Level 1

                                                                        That's great to hear, since I am thinking of ordering these. http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-96862-DataLifePlus-Printable-Spindle/dp/B0024TNXNG/ref=sr_1 _2?ie=UTF8&qid=1320094208&sr=8-2

                                                                         

                                                                        Blank, printable media online seems way harder to find than it should be.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                          Those appear to be the ones that I have  been using. I will check that number, and also the media speed, and report back.

                                                                           

                                                                          Hunt

                                                                          • 34. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                            AsianOcean.com Level 1

                                                                            I use these (not dual, though):

                                                                            http://www.primerastore.com/watershield_inkjet_dvds_50

                                                                            Glossy, hub printable. Those are cheaper at Primera, expensive elsewhere.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                              Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                                                                              You may be asking for trouble not using Blu-Ray Disc, I use Verbatim Blu-ray Disc, 6x BD-R Printable at about $35 Box 10. No rejects professinal finish at Blu-ray mpeg-2 ot H.264. I think mpeg-2 bettter, less compression. original clips were from a Canon 5D Mark II at 1920x 1080p

                                                                              • 36. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                                literally_figurative Level 1

                                                                                I appreciate everyone's feedback on this topic. Bill, are those the DVDs after all? I think I will be doing myself a favor just using DL discs at a CBR of 8 or something.

                                                                                 

                                                                                When my funds allow it, I will purchase a BD Drive. This will be appealing to me if I exporting will be less troublesome.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                                  SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                  Quite an interesting thread showing a variety of opinions. I've always heard the old "don't go over 7" encoding rate and have stuck to that...maybe it is old school and doesn't apply to newer players. That said...is the average viewer really going see a noticeable difference between 9 and 8...or even 9 and 7 for that matter? Would probably depend on the type of footage. A well-lit talking head shot will look good at most any data rate, while a busy action shot will benefit from higher data rates, but there is a point of diminishing returns where going above a certain rate won't make much difference, so don't get freaked out if you calculate the bitrate and it comes out to 6 for your project - you DON'T have to start thinking DL or two-disc set right away! As I do primarily weddings and events, the majority of my DVDs push 90-120 minutes, and I've always use a standard 4.7GB DVD-R and have never had a quality complaint. Also, different encoders produce varied results at the same data rate, many variables to consider.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  A quick calculation method I got from Adobe is 560/minutes=data rate. I round down a bit to allow for overhead and it works pretty well. For instance, 560/120=4.66 and encode then at 4.5 rate. I agree with the other poster to just use CBR unless getting beyond 90 minutes or so, I see no benefit at higher data rates.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  PIXEL ASPECT RATIOS - still images, and videos for the web, use square pixels, with a Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) of 1.0

                                                                                   

                                                                                  DV video uses a 0.9 pixel aspect, while DV widescreen uses 1.2 PAR. Note that DV is ALWAYS 720x480 for NTSC, so how do we get both 4:3 and 16:9 at the same resolution? The 1.2 pixels are rectangular, making the image wider. This is known as anamorphic widescreen.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  HDV is also anamorphic at 1440x1080, using a 1.333 PAR. Multiply 1440x1.333 and you get 1920. Full-raster HD is 1920x1080, using 1.0 PAR.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  If starting with HD footage, and going down to DVD, just specify 16:9 for the DVD encoding software with 1.2 PAR and let it go, it knows what to do. Result will play as widescreen on a widescreen display, and most DVD players will automatically letterbox when connected to a 4:3 display.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Now to confuse matters - when encoding clips for computer and/or web playback, most software players expect square pixels, so if you encode a widescreen web video at 720x480, it will show up as 4:3 in the player! In this case, you must adjust to a 1.0 PAR to compensate, so your 720x480 source video would have to be encoded as 854x480 using 1.0 PAR, then it will look proper when played. This does NOT apply to DVD, so don't be confused, this is for web video.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I hope you find this helpful along with all the other great info that has been shared here.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Jeff Pulera

                                                                                  Safe Harbor

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                                    literally_figurative Level 1

                                                                                    This was very useful indeed, especially considering I was just about to order Dual Layer discs - so I am feeling maybe I can save some cash and go with standard DVDs instead.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    If I may, I'd like to ask a few things. You mention using different encoders. What do you use? I'm using what's stock with premiere CS5.5

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Why is it 560/minutes? Why 560 exactly? Just curious.


                                                                                    When using this calculation, you're saying go with CBR if you're 90 Minutes and under. So:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    If 90 mins and under you suggest a CBR of whatever bitrate is calculated?

                                                                                    If over 90 mins, do you suggest VBR2?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'm almost shocked to get this information, considering I believe my first encode was about 5 or 6 yet when it came to showing text on screen I hadn't gotten it to show with straight edges, but here you are talking about using 4.5 on a 2 hour project!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Final thing I can think of - if going on a project greater than 90 mins, and you're using that 4.5 rate, that would not be CBR, so what would you set the max and minimum to be in that case?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Hope it's not too much to chew through!

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Exporting to DVD for Encore
                                                                                      SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                      I never tried the DL discs because of compatibility issues I read about, but with the much greater cost, and the volume of discs I do, did not care to go that direction anyway. As for MPEG-2 encoders out there, everyone has their favorites and their opinions, and I'm not going to name any, as this is the Adobe forum. I do generally use AME myself, but have "Option B" for certain specialty jobs, but is a VERY complicated workflow. Involves several pieces of public domain software.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      As for CBR vs. VBR encoding, you'll get all kinds of opinions on that. For years, I authored with a third-party DVD tool that did not like importing VBR files, so I stuck with CBR all the time, and now that I am authoring in Encore...old habits die hard. I have my reasons for using CBR for most jobs still. I like to think that encoding at 6 or 7 looks pretty good, so...why not encode ALL of your footage at 7? Why encode some scenes at the low end of say 4, when ALL the footage could be 7? So I like to stick with CBR except for low data rate jobs where extra bit management will show a tangible benefit. I've also seen "break up" of the image with VBR when hitting sudden channges, like photo flashes at wedding receptions, where the data rate spikes from min to max with VBR - don't see this issue with CBR. Probably depends on the player to an extent. The guy who encodes everything at 10 has to be rolling his eyes at me right now ;-)

                                                                                       

                                                                                      About the two hour projects - if you are talking about starting with an HD source, then getting a nice result on DVD is difficult at any bitrate! It has to do with scaling issues, and is especially problematic with interlaced footage because you are not just scaling, but flipping from Upper Field to Lower Field interlacing as well and things just go bad. Not singling out Adobe - I don't know if ANY NLE really nails it, just Google it, it's a problem all around the industry. We all though that shooting in HD would automagically result in nicer DVDs, but my old DV-sourced DVDs look better.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Adobe recommends using the "Maximum Render Quality" setting in AME when scaling (HD to SD), but then I see other posts saying that CUDA rendering with an Nvidia card will actually do better, so leave Max Render off if you have Nvidia...makes my head hurt.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      When I figure it all out, will let you know! I've been making DVDs for over 10 years, and only ran into quality issues when I started shooting HD. Seems that setting the DVD encode to PROGRESSIVE may help when encoding from HD material, takes interlacing out of the picture. Still working on that.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      As for the 560 formula, got that right from the Adobe site a while back. It's just the number that works. Think about it - reverse engineer and multiply the optimal data rate that will fit a 4.7GB disc times minutes, and it is 560! 6.22x90=558. 4.66x120=559 and so on.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      When I talk about delivering two-hour DVDs to my customers, this is different than say doing a concert video or indie film for national distribution. My wedding, dance recital and stage play customers think the DVDs look great. A TV critic might diagree. Just consider that the average young person is now VERY used to watching YouTube garbage, so they wouldn't know quality if it bit them in the backside! Compression is what they are used to.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Jeff

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