13 Replies Latest reply on Oct 31, 2011 2:54 AM by Cooroo

    Indent Here affects Right Tab

    Cooroo

      Something very odd is happening - first time I've really had to do this in ID, so I'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature but it sure looks like a bug.

       

      We have a listing, code - product name - pack size

       

      XXXXX[tab][indent here]Packet of Biscuits [tab right aligned] 16 pack

       

      If the product name is long, I insert a soft return (shift return) and the next line, as expected, aligns to the beginning of the product name in the line above:

       

      XXXX Pack of Biscuits with a [shift return]

                 Very long name[tab] 16 pack

       

      Bizarrely, the pack size does not align properly on the tab. As soon as I remove the indent here character and instead tab the second line, the alignment reappears.

       

      screenshot.jpg

        • 1. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
          Grant H Level 4

          any reason why are you not using a table for this?

           

          G

          • 2. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
            SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Could you post a screen shot of your tab bar for this text?

            • 3. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
              wjnp2000 Level 2

              My friend,

               

              See if your style are like this:

              tab.png

              On the paragraph you got :

               

              paragraph.png

              I have the same problem when I updated my ID to CS 5.5, so I edit "Last Indent" and "Last line indent" to zero and edit again to the value that I want. Then it works.

              Wagner

              • 4. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                M Blackburn Level 3

                Wagner, while I agree with your setup, I don't see how it is any different from previous versions. Unless you are just talking of a behavioural quirk where the values don't take in CS5.5.

                 

                Cooroo should note a couple of things about this setup: it renders the use of the Indent to Here character redundant, and it automatically breaks the first line making the forced return unnecessary. All in all a better way to set this up. (P.S. I couldn't replicate the problem in the first place whether using Indent to Here or not.)

                • 5. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                  Cooroo Level 1

                  Thanks everyone for you input. Unfortunately just after posting we had a major panic at work and I am busy re-working a brochure against the clock. Will come back and read all your posts as soon as it's over! Not ignoring you....

                  • 6. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                    wjnp2000 Level 2

                    OK, M Blackburn,

                     

                    I said that when I reopen files do with CS 5.0 on CS 5.5, the style remains but the text don't stay aligned and I don't use forced return in these cases.

                     

                    And I put two printscreens to help Cooroo, both are the same about the last Indent, and I don't use forced return. The correct second printscreen are this:

                    Screen shot 2011-10-25 at 17.48.36.png

                    Wagner

                    • 7. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                      M Blackburn Level 3

                      Wagner,

                       

                      You may have misunderstood my last post. I wasn't saying that you use a forced return, I was pointing out to Cooroo that your setup is preferable to his because it doesn't require a forced break (or an Indent to Here).

                       

                      If CS5.5 opens files and doens't honour the formatting in something that hasn't changed for several versions (I don't know when negative last last indents were introduced) that is a serious issue. I have heard complaints with CS5.5, but nothing as fundamental as this. Have you pointed this out to anyone, and do they experience the same problem?

                       

                      I am still using CS5, and Cooroo doesn't state a version, but "first time I've really had to do this in ID" implies that this is not an issue of opening files that used to work. I think Cooroo may well be doing something to cause the problem -- unless there IS a bug in CS5.5, in which case it should be reported.

                       

                      PS to Coorro. I would strongly suggest that you reduce your leading and add some paragraph spacing.

                      • 8. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                        Cooroo Level 1

                        OK, panic over here, so I'm reading your replies carefully and will reply below:

                         

                        Grant H - why am I not using tables?  It's a listing that flows across 80 pages. As far as I can tell (and I find it odd, so please tell me I'm wrong!) InDesign tables cannot flow text from cell to cell. I use InData  to flow the text in from Excel. Tables would be way too complex and inflexible and not really help!

                         

                        Generally I think you have misunderstood my problem - but that's also good, because I hadn't discovered the right last line indent option, which will revolutionise the way I work!

                         

                        I am still puzzled that in my picture the final 'Litre' does not align with the lines above, although it is going to the same tab. As soon as I remove the 'indent to here' it positions itself correctly again.

                         

                        In future I will not use the 'indent to here' as it doesn't behave as I would expect (and as it does in Quark), but that's fine, I can use a combination of left and right indents. But I'd love to know why it has this quirk.

                         

                        M Blackburn - 'reduce your leading and add para spacing' - absolutely! I inherited text from a previous source and we had to do a rush job, matching existing stuff. Next time around I will sort that out, I agree it looks horrendous.

                        It's odd that you couldn't replicate.

                         

                        Thanks all for your comments

                        Emma (Cooroo)

                        • 9. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                          MT.Freelance Level 4

                          Cooroo,

                          This is in reply to your comment about flowing text into table cells.

                          InDesign can do this, but you have to do it correctly.

                           

                          One way to insert Excel data is to link the Excel Workbook by File > Place

                          • Doing this treats the Excel file as a link. Any updates to the excel file will be reflected on the InDesign file as with any placed image.
                          • This does require planning. The Excel and InDesign styles must be named the same, or the excel styles will override the InDesign styles each time the link is updated.

                           

                          Another way is by Copy/Paste

                          • You can copy a range of cells and paste them into the InDesign tables.
                          • Set your Preference to keep the source styles or to paste as plain text.
                          • If you paste as plain text, then the pasted text will acquire the styles assigned to the table.

                           

                          1. If you place the cursor in the cell and paste, you will get everything in the first cell. I am interpreting your comment to mean that you tried this and found out that it does not work as you may have intended.
                          2. You need to SELECT the first cell of the range you want to paste into (doesn't have to be the upper left cell). If your table does not have enough rows or columns to accept the pasted text, then enough will be added to fit the pasted text.

                          See the screenshot

                           

                          Screen shot 2011-10-28 at 9.16.35 AM.png

                           

                          Hope that helps, though it does nothing to fix the Indent to Here quirk.

                           

                          -mt

                          • 10. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                            Cooroo Level 1

                            That's good to know. Excel links would never be appropriate in our business as we produce catalogues etc and the spreadsheets supplied bear very little relation to what will appear on the page! I use InData or Filemaker to massage the data before bringing it onto the page.

                             

                            However for more straightforward tables, it is good to know the text can be flowed in more than one cell at a time!

                             

                            Thanks for the nice illustrations.

                            • 11. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                              M Blackburn Level 3

                              Cooroo,

                               

                              Indent To Here works the same in InDesign as it does Quark. And the tab structure for setting up the hanging indents that your layout uses works the same in Quark as it does in InDesign.

                               

                              My point is that using your (Quarkish) method you insert a Tab and an Indent to Here character, BUT, if you are setting up a tab there is no point in using Indent to Here. There seems to be this misconception among Quark users as to the proper use of Indent to Here -- and a blind spot as to how to properly set up a hanging indent. (Sorry, nothing personal.)

                              • 12. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                                Michael Gianino Level 4

                                M Blackburn wrote:

                                There seems to be this misconception among Quark users as to the proper use of Indent to Here -- and a blind spot as to how to properly set up a hanging indent. (Sorry, nothing personal.)

                                Sorry, but I gotta call BS on that one. I used Quark for years before I learned InDesign, and I had no trouble with the concept and use of both  Indent to Here and hanging indents. Generalities will make a strong argument moot.

                                • 13. Re: Indent Here affects Right Tab
                                  Cooroo Level 1

                                  I have just tried to reproduce the odd tab behaviour I first complained of, and can't! The presence of an indent to here character is NOT affecting the right tab at all. How odd...

                                   

                                  I have used Quark for 25 years or so, and InDesign increasingly over that last 2-3. I am fully aware of the use of hanging indents, positive and negative. However this thread has made me aware of the right hanging indent (or whatever it's called) which was not in Quark. It is going to be very useful and I am glad of it. Thanks!

                                   

                                  I used indent to here a lot as it's easy when flowing text in through XData/InData, and there are other tab positions involved and it has been the easiest solution. There are obviously other ways of doing it and I think that in ID I will avoid it as it clearly CAN go wrong (I did find another thread here where someone described the same problem).

                                   

                                  There are still things I like best in Quark, and things in ID that I love (mostly the ability to make boxes grow from different origins, and the sophisticated search and replace features). The Quark forum still seems the friendliest too....!

                                   

                                  My question is still unanswered as I have no idea why the final line in my initial image tabs differently from the lines above (and did so consistently throughout this job), but I have good alternative ways of working and next time will be much easier.

                                   

                                  Thanks everyone!