1 2 Previous Next 65 Replies Latest reply on Aug 21, 2012 10:49 PM by Sascha Selent

    Losing video previews

    glosstud Level 1

      Hi all can anyone explain why I lose video renders when I restart PP? I do a render entire work area, save the project, quit PP and when I reopen I have red bars back to where I was before. I have tried all the different render settings and also the performance v memory settings. This is with cs5.5 but was also the same on cs5.  This was also happening with os snow leopard as well as lion for mac.

       

      Regards

      Dave.

        • 1. Re: Losing video previews
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Dave,

           

          First a few questions, to rule out some possible issues.

           

          Where to you have the Scratch Disks directed, and especially the Render files?

           

          Any external HDD's, or networked drives in the system?

           

          Also, knowing your OS might be helpful.

           

          Good luck, and thanks for the info.

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Losing video previews
            glosstud Level 1

            Hi Bill. ok here is an overview os sys specs and settings.

             

            12 core mac pro with osx lion and cs5.5 all latest updates.

            32 gig ram

            ati 5770 graphics

             

            1 x 2tb system disk

            1 x 1tb scratch disk this is where i place all my avchd footage

            1 x 1tb disk for all my audio recordings and sound fx

            1 x 1tb disk for render this has all the rendered data on it

             

            all above discs are internal and NOT set in any raid configeration.

             

            I also have 1 x 1tb external firewire drive for time machine backup.

             

            I have just tried the following.

            Opened up existing project and checked all settings for disc usage are correct. I closed PP then deleted all the render files associated with this project.

            I reopened up PP and project and checked settings again. All good so far.

             

            I rendered effects in work area and saved project.

            I looked in render folder before closing PP and found 300 files some render and some xmp.

             

            I closed PP and checked to see if I still had 300 files in render disc. All ok so far.

             

            I reopened PP and project and it has not loaded SOME of the files it seems to be the more intense files with flares, pre keyed footage and an AE clip with flying photos etc that have not loaded. This is a pain as these are the ones that take longer to render. I recheked render folder and it still has 300 files in it.

             

            I rendered again and it stated 37 items to render, before it was 150 (hence the 300 files inc xmp)

            I now look in the render folder and see 374 files. I save and quit PP then reopen and it still shows the same red bars and the render effects in work area command states 37 files again to render.

            Nothing has changed so I do not understand why these 37 previews are not loading. I have checked the footage and see no errors it just seems that anything with effects other than basic transitions will not load rendered files.

             

            NOTE I have just noticed that all non rendered frames have one thing in common and that is they were exported from AE in RGB and ALPHA some in animation and some in AIC. This was done as the colour picker in cs5.5 with lion is not working so I pre keyed footage in AE. However I believe this was the same problem that has always happened when keying directly in PP so I dont think the alpha channel is the problem.

             

            Sorry to ramble on, but I have tried to give the most detail as i can. Other than that PP is fine and no other issues on mac.

             

            Regards

            Dave.

            • 3. Re: Losing video previews
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Dave,

               

              Thank you for the system information, and the detailed steps that you used in testing, plus the observed results - very well done! We also know that two of the more common cause of lost Render files do not apply in your case - external HDD's, or a networked drive. You have ruled those two out.

               

              As the ability of PrPro to use the Render files is through their link in the XML of the Project file (PRPROJ), it appears that the links to some of those Render files is being lost.

               

              Why the links are being lost is something that perhaps Todd, or another Adobe employee can address.

               

              As a "next step," have you applied all updates to PrPro? [Let's get that one out of the way too.]

               

              I have seen reports of some instances of lost links to Render fiiles, even where the "usual suspects" are not involved. There are not that many common elements in those cases, or I have failed to "connect the dots," to see a common element. That is where Adobe will need to come into the mix. It does seem that many of those cases involve Mac's, and that is certainly an area, where I am totally out of my element. That said, IIRC, there have also been some similar cases involving PC's, so while the OS might play a role, it does not seem that the issues are Mac, or PC centric.

               

              I have pretty much offered what little I have, but time has not been wasted, as the info that you have provided will very likely help Todd, or others, zero in on the problem. Again, thank you for that info.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Losing video previews
                glosstud Level 1

                This is now getting to be a real pain, I have spent the last 6 hours trying different settings, nesting sequences,modifying clip properties to tell PP to ignore the alpha channel. Render after render after render and still its the same areas that go back to red bars. Has no one else had any issues like this?

                 

                Or am I just doing something wrong that should be obviouse.

                 

                Just for the record my seq settings are one of the presets wich is avchd 1080p/50 the only changes I have made are to the type and number of audio tracks. My footage is 1080P avchd. I have also tried creating a new seq by dropping footing onto the create new item and the settings apear the same as I am using.

                 

                Regards a very frustrated mr stevens who may soon be buying a sledge hammer. ;-)

                • 5. Re: Losing video previews
                  glosstud Level 1

                  Hi Bill thanks for your help. we must of both been typing at the same time as your reply came in just as i sent my last post haha. Many thanks.

                   

                  All updates have been applied to cs5.5 and osx lion.

                  Regards

                  Dave.

                   

                   

                  Todd  where are you? I need your help please. Do you think i should shout louder? lol.

                  • 6. Re: Losing video previews
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    I just wish that I had more to offer here, but "careful with that axe [sledgehammer] Eugene [Dave]."

                     

                    I hope that a solution will be forthcoming, as though I have never lost a Render (just jinxed myself), I can imagine your frustration. One's energies are better spent editing, and not Rendering and tracking down solutions to problems. The Adobe folk here are very, very good, and greatly appreciated. I feel that you will have some useful input very soon, and hope that a fix is in those replies. I would love to learn the cause, as well.

                     

                    For what it's worth, several users on the PrE forum, have encountered the same, or very similar, so any solutions from Adobe will be greatly appreciated over a couple of Premiere forums.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Losing video previews
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      I just turned on the "Todd-light" over Gotham, so when he has a second, he should be by this thread.

                      bat_light.jpg

                      Good luck, and Happy Halloween!

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Losing video previews
                        glosstud Level 1

                        Haha well if he is a bat he should be out and about soon. I have just been following another of your posts from earlier about photos getting corrupted and that gave me an idea.

                         

                        So i checked footage to see if it was set to read and write and it was for the administrator but not others. So I changed it to read and write for everyone. And ...............wait for it..........Still no joy.. damn. but worth a try anyway.

                         

                        Happy halloween to you too. Now dont come knocking on my door trick or treating, i still have the sledge hammer. 

                         

                         

                        Dave.

                        • 9. Re: Losing video previews
                          glosstud Level 1

                          heres an update.

                           

                          I took one of my clips that was causing a problem and remade it in AE with no alpha channel just rgb. That clip is now behaving and being good. ( i did not need the alpha on that in the end anyway)

                           

                          but all other clips with alpha from AE are causing a problem still and not loading render files, so i dug a bit deeper.

                           

                          I went to modify clips and interpret footage, everything looked normal ie 50fps, square pixels,No fields progressive. I then changed the fps to say assume 50fps so in effect no change was made.

                           

                          I render the area and save, close and reopen and i get the GREEN bar but only for about half a second or so then we go back to red. Then I change my earlier interpret footage back to normal and nothing so I change back to assume 50fps and the green bars come back without re-rendering.

                           

                          It seems PP may not like the AE alpha orthe other thing I spotted in clips properties is that as you scroll down to AVERAGE frame rate it is saying 50.01 fps.

                           

                          Im stumped.

                          • 10. Re: Losing video previews
                            glosstud Level 1

                            ok i feel like i am talking to myself here but another update

                             

                            I have re-rendered all footage that had an alpha channel that i was not using and replaced with rgb. these are now all fine and render previews return as they should when reloading project.

                             

                            all other footage with alpha channel that i need i have applied the remove matte effect (white type) and re-rendered. Close then re open project we go back to red bars on these clips, HOWEVER..if i click on each clips white setting in each remove matte effect (even tho they are still set to white) the green bars come back so no need to render again for preview.

                             

                            still a pain in the butt, but quicker than a rerender seeing as there are only about six of these clips. Once the eye dropper is working in cs5.5 with osx lion I wont have to key these in AE.. that was a hint Todd if your reading. But I would still like to know whats going on.

                             

                            My old job used to be fault finding electro mechanical systems, (and i was quite good at it) Seems old habits die hard, so still not finished looking. Give me the tools and I may even get that eye dropper working.

                             

                            Any thoughts anyone?

                            • 11. Re: Losing video previews
                              glosstud Level 1

                              Just another quick update. I have found I do not need to apply any effects so dismiss the remove matte bit above. All it seems I have to do is to go into each clips effects menu and turn off any effect like opacity (even if its not being used) and turn it back on again. Then we are back to green bars. Why this is happening I do not know.

                               

                              Dave.

                              • 12. Re: Losing video previews
                                glosstud Level 1

                                Hi yet again..It seems I have come to a conclusion. PP does not like to save video renders with an alpha channel either from AE or third party software such as video co-pilot footage. If I render everything in AE in just rgb and export to disk then all is ok. But if i leave in the alpha it goes tits up and will not load the render preview files.

                                 

                                Thank you adobe for NOT helping me out on this. Judging by the lack of response (Bill excluded)  I may need to seek help elsewhere. fcpx when it matures maybe. And for the record I know I am a newbie on here but my first attempts of video editing were done in adobe premiere on a intel P120 many years ago when the best you could get was a decent image the size of a stamp. Remember those days when the included sample files where of a circus. Just or the record I do not consider myself a pro either.

                                 

                                Hey its not like I did not try.

                                • 13. Re: Losing video previews
                                  glosstud Level 1

                                  So time to change the question.

                                   

                                  have you done a chroma key effect in after effects using keylight, saved it to disc with rgb+alpha. Imported it into Prem pro cs5.5 (osx lion) put it on the timeline with another effect such as pre keyed footage of fog or smoke  beneath it. Then rendered the work area so you have green or yellow bars but not red, saved and quit, shut down PP then restart and reload the project and the timeline shows green(or yellow) render bars, but not red?

                                  • 14. Re: Losing video previews
                                    glosstud Level 1

                                    ok here we go again, since the recent update of cs5.5 for lion the colour picker is working, thank you Adobe.

                                     

                                    so I got all my pre-keyed footage took it back to AE and added a green background, export back to PP keyed out the BG and everything has been super and reloads the video preview files.

                                     

                                    However I still have stock footage from video co pilot (action essential 2 pack) that is pre-keyed on my timeline. And the preview files still will not load. So safe to say I have not done anything wrong as Mr Kramer has much more experience than me in pre keying stuff..

                                     

                                    The time sample rate is different I admit as is the frame size. The clips are 720p and my seq is in 1080 and scaled up to suit. But was not  the case in my own clips.

                                     

                                    Am I stupid and missing something? if you answer yes then please at least explain why ;-)

                                     

                                    I can live with it if I really have to, but I would like to know this is happening.

                                     

                                    TIA.

                                    • 15. Re: Losing video previews
                                      glosstud Level 1

                                      Ok not being one to give in, I have created the most simple sequence in the world, using one pre keyed video clip (dragged to new item) twice and a bars and tone clip.

                                      The video clip is pre keyed footage from video co pilot.

                                      I put the video clip on track two twice end to end, with the bars and tones on track 1 and rendered and saved as in this screen shot

                                      Screen Shot 1.png

                                       

                                       

                                      I save and close and reopen and I get red bars like this

                                      Screen Shot 2.png

                                       

                                      So pretty sure I am not to blame, However I did find this below, I am not 100% sure what it means about the first alpha channel bit, but could this be the cause of me losing video previews on footage with an alpha channel.???????

                                       

                                       

                                      Premiere Pro and After Effects recognize both straight and premultiplied channels, but only the first alpha channel they encounter in a file containing multiple alpha channels. Adobe Flash recognizes only premultiplied alpha channels.

                                      • 16. Re: Losing video previews
                                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                        This definitely seems odd.

                                         

                                        Would you mind submitting a bug report about this? Please include a link to this thread in the details section.

                                        • 17. Re: Losing video previews
                                          glosstud Level 1

                                          Hi Todd, Bug report sent. Thank you for getting back to me, as I was starting to feel rather alone on this problem.

                                           

                                          Regards

                                          Dave

                                          (gloucester studios) aka glosstud.

                                          • 18. Re: Losing video previews
                                            zeeper53

                                            Dave,

                                            You are definitly not alone on this issue. I have been dealing with the same thing, but talking with Red Giant about it thinking it was related to two of their plug-ins I recently installed. After a number of render tests I believe the source lies w/ Premiere. I began first noticing the loss of preview green lines while layering Colorista II, Mojo and Neat Video filters. Eventually, through a process of trial and elimination I have gotten the condition to occur with none of the afore mentioned filters applied. Everytime I think I see a pattern, either it doesn't repeat or it starts happening in a totally different scenario. My renders inconsistantly create rendered movie or XMP files in my scratch disk preview folder and sometimes Premiere doesn't link to them when they are created. Complexity and length of the rendered area seems to related. I only recently upgraded to CS 5.5 from Pro 1.5  and this is the 1st I have run across this problem. Thanks for bringing it up, I will also file a report.

                                             

                                            Peter

                                            • 19. Re: Losing video previews
                                              glosstud Level 1

                                              Peter thank you.. I am now NOT...OCD ..niether am I  CRAZY......Sorry you have the same problem tho.  I do wonder how many guys out there have actually tried to replicate the problem, hey I gave enough info talking to myself for days on end..

                                               

                                              Regards

                                              Dave

                                              (gloucester studios) aka glosstud.

                                              • 20. Re: Losing video previews
                                                zeeper53 Level 1

                                                Dave,

                                                I was also relieved when I found your postings as I have been dealing

                                                with this for about a week. Red Giant rep has been scratching his head

                                                and will probably be relieved that it appears to be a Premiere issue.

                                                Thanks for your detailed diagnostic attempts. I hope Adobe can help us

                                                with this soon.

                                                 

                                                Peter

                                                • 21. Re: Losing video previews
                                                  glosstud Level 1

                                                  Hi peter tell the RGS rep to contact me via email with a link to this post if you would please.  I will try and help where I can.

                                                   

                                                  Regards

                                                   

                                                  Dave.

                                                  • 22. Re: Losing video previews
                                                    zeeper53 Level 1

                                                    Dave,

                                                    I've already sent him a link to your forum posts.

                                                     

                                                    Peter

                                                    • 23. Re: Losing video previews
                                                      glosstud Level 1

                                                      Hello again everybody, its me mr OCD got a problem and want to fix it.

                                                       

                                                      Just an update I have taken one of my clips (from video co-pilot) with an rgb+a and converted from a .mov to a .png sequence and it works fine. I render/save/close/open and i have all the green bars and no red.

                                                       

                                                      I think I recall reading somewhere

                                                      that .mov files are not 64bit encoded or something like that, sorry very vauge. I cant find the post it was on, but it was in the last 12 hours on this cs5/5.5 forum thats whay I gave it a go.

                                                       

                                                      Just wondered if this sheds any light on anything that may help.  I dont want to encode ALL my prekeyed footage to png it would be a nightmare to keep track of.

                                                       

                                                      Any input lovingly welcomed

                                                       

                                                      Regards

                                                       

                                                      Dave.

                                                      • 24. Re: Losing video previews
                                                        zeeper53 Level 1

                                                        Todd,

                                                        I've filed a bug report about this rendering stability problem I'm experiencing. I don't know if I should expect to hear back from Adobe, but I've also made a short video which demonstrates the condition. Where can I send it? Thank you.

                                                         

                                                        Peter

                                                        • 25. Re: Losing video previews
                                                          glosstud Level 1

                                                          Peter, thank you for keeping this post alive with me. Is there anyway you can send me a link to the video so as I can have a look please?

                                                           

                                                          I will not be beaten by this.

                                                          • 26. Re: Losing video previews
                                                            zeeper53 Level 1

                                                            I don't have it stored anywhere online to send you a link, it's aprox.

                                                            14MB. I will email it to you if you would like... where?

                                                            • 27. Re: Losing video previews
                                                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                              > I don't know if I should expect to hear back from Adobe, but I've also made a short video which demonstrates the condition. Where can I send it?

                                                               

                                                              The folks reading the bug reports only answer back if they need more information.

                                                               

                                                              If you have a video demosntrating the issue, please upload to it to a video-sharing service (Vimeo, YouTube, or whatever) and attach a link in your bug report.

                                                              • 28. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                zeeper53 Level 1

                                                                Todd,

                                                                 

                                                                OK, thanks.

                                                                • 29. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                  zeeper53 Level 1

                                                                  Dave,

                                                                  I just uploaded the vid to YouTube, http://youtu.be/s8YbMPId5f4

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Peter

                                                                  • 30. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                    glosstud Level 1

                                                                    Hi Peter , I have Just looked at your upload. It seems we have a similiar problem but not the same problem.. I see in your timeline you have 1 video track with clips... The problem I am having is with clips with an alpha channel pre keyed  and in my latest update it appears to be clips in a .mov format that are causing the problem.

                                                                     

                                                                    Per my last post I re-made these clips in png format RGB+A  and they are fine. I am not sure what is going on, surley a .MOV clip with RGB+A  should behave the same???.

                                                                     

                                                                    If needed I will also upload to the tube, Let me know if that will help Todd.

                                                                     

                                                                    Dave.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                      glosstud Level 1

                                                                      Im still here and looking for an answer, In the hope someone new falls across this problem and finds an answer.

                                                                       

                                                                      Have a good weekend all.

                                                                       

                                                                      Dave,

                                                                      • 32. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                        glosstud Level 1

                                                                        So many experts on here, yet it can feel like a lonely planet! No sarcasm intended.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          FWIW, it's hard for the experts here to provide more than guesses at what might be the real cause when they can't reproduce the issue on their systems.  For example, I don't have, nor have I ever had, issues with lost video preview files.

                                                                           

                                                                          I know that's not a very satisfying response, but it reflects the reality of the situation.  No repro, no solution.

                                                                           

                                                                          Good weekend backatcha anyway.

                                                                           

                                                                          -Jeff

                                                                          • 34. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                            Stephen_Spider Level 3

                                                                            zeeper, I just saw your youtube clip. Are you sure that you are not moving the opacity line as you are clicking on the clips? It looks like you are clicking right on top of it.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                              zeeper53 Level 1

                                                                              Stephen,

                                                                              A reasonable question. I had to go back and check. There are a number of things that happen when you move the opacity line in a timeline clip. First, you have to click and drag. Simply clicking on the line doesn't move it. Next a symbol appears (two arrows, one above and one below a line) before you click and drag. Finally, when you do click and drag  a reference box specifying the opacity percentage appears. Looking back to my vid I do see the symbol appear when I hover over the line, but there is never the reference box. I have been editing for quite awhile and I know I wasn't dragging the line, but thanks for the input Stephen.

                                                                               

                                                                              Pete

                                                                              • 36. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                                glosstud Level 1

                                                                                Hi guys ok I have really gone to town now. I am in the process of doing a complete reinstall of osx lion from a clean disk, I will then add update to latest os then add production premium cs5.5 and I will then update to latest version and see what happens. I will then add any third party software and finally I will add my other stuff and restore my backups of videos saved on desktop, accounts and Microsoft for mac software.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I have made two backups within time machine in the last ten minutes, so I hope time machine comes good. Tho I have unplugged by backup drive for now, just so as I know it's not going to be affected by anything.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Apart from crossing my fingers and legs..any other suggestions ? Not done this before, but he who dares...

                                                                                 

                                                                                Dave.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                                  glosstud Level 1

                                                                                  Hi people, well after doing the above mentoned, a totally clean install with latest lion software and latest cs5.5 software and nothing else at all. The problem is exactly the same. Do a render get green bars save, close reopen and back to red bars on clips with an rgb + a channel in .mov format. the same clips in .png are fine.. Maybe PP thinks that because i have a 12 core mac that that I should use the cores to the fullest and forces me to re-render.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hey I did try and I ended up with some new wallpaper on my screen of some grass, Shame i cant smoke it lol what with all the time I have spent trying to figure out whats going on i could do with some therapy.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  who wants to give me 10 out of 10 for perserverance?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Dave.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Not going to waste much more time on this now, unless I get some other bright ideas. So now time to put my 3rd party SW on and all the other stuff...see you in about a week haha.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                                    Stephen_Spider Level 3

                                                                                    Okay... How about disc permission issues? Try maybe testing by putting all raw footage, project files, scratch directories, and Premiere cache in a single folder on a single drive. Test multiple drives and see if you can glean anything from it.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Losing video previews
                                                                                      glosstud Level 1

                                                                                      Hi Stephen. I have done as you said, but NO GO still the same. I have also logged in as root user and selected all disks to allow read and write with any user. I have also changed all my project scratch disk settings  and media cache settings, enabled, disabled write xmp files etc etc..

                                                                                       

                                                                                      My next course of action is to contact video co-pilot and link to this thread, however I dont expect a response soon due to weekend, also I do not think it is anything to do with thier pre keyed .mov files as I get the same problem if i key in AE with my own footage from avchd. Please note this has been narrowed down to files with. mov extension. the same files converted to .png in AE  work fine.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Thank you for your input anyway.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Dave.

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