17 Replies Latest reply on Jul 18, 2014 10:31 AM by rob day Branched to a new discussion.

    Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign

    Ro55yBear

      Hi there

       

      I am a magazine designer where i get 400-500 photo selections from my photographer. We have finally upgraded to CS5 (yes yes took our time). I used to be able in CS2 Indesign place the DNG files for mockup of the pages, but now in CS5 it says: "Cannot place this file. No filter found for requested operation." Is there a filter available to do this or do I need to convert all of the DNG files to jpg to use in the mockups?

        • 1. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
          Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I don't believe you've ever been able to place a DNG file directly in InDesign. You need to do a batch process to convert your DNG files to JPEG.

          • 2. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
            Ro55yBear Level 1

            Hi Steve ... Yeah in CS2 you could ... it ment for mocking up stories it was very efficient, as you could mockup the layout to send to prepress for the team to manipulate the images from DNG

            • 3. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
              Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

              The ability to place Camera Raw images directly into InDesign has been a much requested but exceptionally highly-debated feature request since Photoshop started support for Camera Raw. DNG is actually just a special, TIFF-like standardized version of a raw image format that was an attempt to provide a universal container for common features of the various camera vendors' “raw” formats plus plus a common method of storing the vast amount of the individual camera vendors' and model-dependent “secret sauce” used to decode the raw image data for creating more industry-standard TIFF, JPEG, etc. images.

               

              In many respects, a raw image is the digital equivalent of analog photography's concept of a negative, albeit not reversed in tonalilty and/or color. A significant amount of processing is obtain a usable image from raw image data. When shooting in JPEG mode with a digital camera, this processing is done in-camera and includes significant noise reduction, sharpening, color adjustment, and brightness / contrast adjustments depending upon the cameras' capabilities. All that processing is postponed to Photoshop's Camera Raw feature (or the vendors' own host computer-resident conversion software) when you elect to get raw-only images out of your digital cameras. A very large number of professional and amateur photographers who shoot raw mode always process their own images to TIFF or JPEG before submitting for any editorial review or layout. Trying to directly place the DNG file's raw image data, even for mockups, is like trying to do mockups using the negatives in the old days. Exactly what default settings would you use to use these images and how meaningful would the visual representation of those default settings be?

               

              I have been involved with InDesign ever since the first prereleases of InDesign 1.0 (not CS1) and I don't recall any support ever given for direct placement of DNG or any other raw image format. I don't even know of any third party InDesign plug-ins that ever did that! InDesign itself was never not distributed with the libraries and data used for such conversions.

               

              However, there are many cameras that have a mode by which both a raw image and a camera-created JPEG file are output to the camera's memory card. Perhaps you had some directories of images that had these dual image files. (Also, there are indeed only a handful of very specialized programs that produce DNG files directly. Most professional camera manufacturers have elected to continue to output proprietary “secret sauce” image formats. To get DNG files from such file formats, you need to either run a batch process to convert to DNG or perhaps Adobe's own DNG converter that can convert entire directories of raw image files to DNG.)

               

                        - Dov

              • 4. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                John Hawkinson Level 5

                Thanks for the insight, Dov.

                The ability to place Camera Raw images directly into InDesign has been a much requested but exceptionally highly-debated feature request since Photoshop started support for Camera Raw.

                Can you tell us what the debate is about? It would seem an obvious no-brainer that such a feature would be good. Is there a concern other than prioritization of work or fear of destabilizing InDesign with an unstable plugin? (I would deem those technical considerations, which I guess have merit, but don't seem to be real feature blockers. Maybe that's just me...)

                • 5. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                  Ro55yBear Level 1

                  lol are you an employee of Adobe? if you are you should check your software a little more thoroughly, as CS2 and CS3 could both directly place DNG files into Indesign.

                   

                  So I'm guessing it is a no then, and I'll have to work out my own efficient work around

                  • 6. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                    Ro55yBear, this form of rudeness is not appropriate for this forum. Please be more polite to others in the future, or choose another venue for your communication.

                     

                    For what it's worth, I just confirmed that CS3 cannot place DNG files in InDesign (InDesign 5.0.4.682 under MacOS 10.6.8).

                    • 8. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      John Hawkinson wrote:

                       

                      For what it's worth, I just confirmed that CS3 cannot place DNG files in InDesign (InDesign 5.0.4.682 under MacOS 10.6.

                      Nor can it be done in Windows. I don'thave anything earlier thanCS3 installed on this laptop, but I also don't recall any time at which placing a .dng file was possible. Perhaps you had a proprietary third-party plugin, though I don't recall anything like that being on the market.

                      • 9. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                        Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                        The problem is what is it that you would place if you try to directly place a DNG or any other raw format image file into an InDesign (or for matter, Illustrator or any other layout or word processing) document. With a JPEG, JPEG2000, PNG, TIFF, or even a GIF file, the file's contents are deterministic. You simply “place” the contents with the only adjustments being resampling to fit and applying ICC color management based on any embedded or referred to profiles versus the display (or printing condition) profile. What do you do with what is literally raw data in a DNG or other raw format file? How do you process it? Guess? Very risky. What raw conversion settings to use really vary from image to image and by personal taste and desired effects. Yes, conceivably InDesign could invoke a call to Photoshop's Camera Raw feature every time you attempt to place such an image and keep the conversion parameters in a “side car” to be referenced every time the image is to be displayed, exported, or printed. But that starts getting very complex and confusing and would require the user to either have a version of the suite with Photoshop or for InDesign to include a major hunk of Photoshop code.

                         

                        The OP mentioned placing DNG files simply for mockup. Suppose we did provide a quick-and-dirty placement of DNG and other raw formats using some default. Would we then mark the document as a “mockup document” preventing high quality PDF export and printing until the user did a formal, high quality conversion of these images in Camera Raw? That really seems nasty and confusing. As such, providing such a feature isn't quite such a simple no-brainer as you would like to think it is or could be. The more you examine the problem, the greater your healthy respect for the problem becomes!   

                         

                                  - Dov

                        • 10. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                          Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                          Ro55yBear,

                           

                          Yes I am an employee of Adobe Systems Incorporated - I've been one for over 21 years. And I absolutely do know what I am talking about in terms of raw files not being directly supported in any version of InDesign to date. A “workaround” has been offered to you in Eugene Tyson's posting although it entails quite a bit of work (embedding the raw image, possibly a DNG file, as a smart object inside of a PSD file and then placing the PSD file itself into InDesign.

                           

                          As I indicated, one possibility may have been that you were dealing with directories of images that had both a DNG and a JPEG or TIFF file for each image (differing only in file name suffix).

                           

                                    - Dov

                          • 11. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                            John Hawkinson Level 5

                            Another possibility -- a file named .DNG that isn't actually DNG format, but is instead PNG or JPEG or TIFF; InDesign will place those just fine. I think it's not hard to end up with one of these by saving in Photoshop if you are careless.

                            • 12. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                              frepe

                              I was looking around to solve a workflow problem i had when creating booklayouts and i found this tread.

                               

                              I have the same desire as Ro55yBear to be able to place my RAW(canon) straight into indesign, and when i do

                              so id like indesign to use the embedded lowres jpeg, thus no conversion power needed at the moment.

                               

                              My idea is that for some projects my first step is gathering the images i want to use, they will be scattered over several

                              folders, anywhere in about 10 years of everyday shooting.

                               

                              For say a weddingbook with images from just 1 day of shooting i usually just convert all the images and use those as mockup

                              material but in this case i cant convert everything first.

                               

                              So what i would love is if indesign could use the embedded jpeg when i drop any kind of RAW, then when im ready with choosing my

                              images id use the packagin feature to make a folder with copies af all these images that used to be scattered all over.

                               

                              From there i would get an eagelsview as to what kind of postproccesing i will do to finalize the product.

                               

                              For me this would be most usefull in may situations and it cant in any way be hurting to ad this feature.

                               

                              PS. To make it perfect id like indesign to work like this:

                               

                              1. dropping RAW into design, ID uses embedded jpeg.

                              2. Packing the project to gather the images, ID makes a copy of the rawfile and putting it in project folder.

                              3. when all done postprocessing the RAW i save a JPEG with the same filename in the same folder, ID realises this and use the JPEG instead.

                              • 13. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                                John Hawkinson Level 5

                                frepe, are you asking for help, or just articulating Your Dream?

                                 

                                InDesign cannot read DNG files, and it certainly cannot read .RAW files, be they Nikon .RAW, Canon .CR2, or even Red .R3D. It cannot extract the embedded JPEG images from those formats where they exist. Cannot and will not.

                                 

                                Use an external tool to produce FPO JPEGs (for positioning only) or to extract your low-resolution proxy JPEGs, where they exist. ID will not do it for you, sorry.

                                • 14. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                  Or place the RAW files into PSDs as smart objects and place the PSD. You can then work on the RAW files and resave the PSDs and then just update the links.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Bob

                                  • 15. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                                    frepe Level 1

                                    Not asking for help per say (if the functionallity isnt allready in ID and i cant find it). A dream... yeah sure, it cant be to much to ask though. I know it cant extract the JPEG now but i ask why it cant, OSX does it along with lots of other software. There is no demosaiking(sorry spelling) involved.

                                     

                                    I just hope that the people at adobe will understand that this would be a good feature to add.

                                     

                                    Fredrik

                                    • 16. Re: Placing DNG files for Mockup Design in Indesign
                                      frepe Level 1

                                      Yes that is a solution to the place raw problem but imo that only ad steps where we want to minimize the work.

                                       

                                      Thanks anyways.

                                       

                                      Fredrik