36 Replies Latest reply on Nov 12, 2011 4:05 AM by ExactImage

    Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7

    Votary105 Level 1

      Ok so I have currently got a job as a video editor and am currently using FCP7. At the moment they are not using FCP X as it doesn't open older FCP files. I am a very efficient Windows use since I have been using a PC for 10yrs and have had to jump into the OSX world which I have not had an issue with (not an apple hater) but I find OSX feels like a toy to me and I can't work half as fast as I do on windows 7. I realise i will speed up over time but that is not what i'd like to discuss here please.

       

      Since Premiere Pro is available on both OSX and Windows I have been in discussion with my employer about making the jump to Pp CS5.5 but he is very keen to continue using his iMac (which he spent some sum of money on) and is not so keen to learn windows all over again.

       

      So my question is

       

      Can I work on a project in Premiere Pro on my Windows 7 machine and then take it to my employer and open the same project in Premiere Pro on OSX and have it work?

       

      Many thanks

        • 1. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          For the most part, yes. There are a few effects on Windows that aren't available on Mac (as far as I recall), but beyond that, the project files are 100% transferable from platform to platform.

           

          Note that both platforms will open up FCP XML documents from FCP 7, too--another important selling point fro your employer, I'm sure

          • 2. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
            Votary105 Level 1

            Thats fantastic and thanks for the incredibly quick reply.

             

            Is there somewhere here or on the web that talks about this as i would like to really research the issues and find out what limitations there are so i can give my employer as much info about the pros and cons as i can.

             

            Again, thanks for the reply

            • 3. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              Are you talking about the effect limitations? Probably the best place to look for this information (as well as other differences between the platforms) is the help documentation: Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 * Using Adobe Premiere Pro

               

              One other difference would be the import/export support of a few different formats and codecs. For example, you can import and edit ProRes QuickTime MOVs on Windows, but you can't render or export to ProRes--that's more of a limitation imposed by Apple than Adobe. These are good things to be aware of, but typically, there are considerations you can make to ease a cross-platform workflow.

               

              What formats are you typically working with in FCP?

              • 4. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                Votary105 Level 1

                At the moment we are using a DSLR to shoot H.264 footage. But at the moment we need to transocde all the footage to Apple pro res to work on which is a massive slow down when we have 3-4 hours of footage across on 4-5 cameras so it takes a large amount of time.

                 

                But we are looking at getting a RED through next year some time and that is something we need to look at with our editing software.

                • 5. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  In both cases, you'll have 100% format support parity between the two platforms. Both the Mac and PC versions natively support those camera/footage types--just import and edit.

                   

                  Here's an article that covers this topic: Native Format Editing in Adobe Premiere Pro

                  • 6. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                    tallscot Level 1

                    You should transcode h.264 no matter what you are using.

                    • 7. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                      lasvideo Level 4

                      You should transcode h.264 no matter what you are using.

                       

                      This is not necessarily true. On my system using the Adobe sequence, 5D files play back just fine. Maybe your system has issues that need to be addressed

                       

                      Tom Daigon

                      Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor

                      www.hdshotsandcuts.com

                      Mac Pro 3,1

                      2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon

                      10.6.8

                      Nvidia Quadro 4000

                      24 gigs ram

                      Kona 3

                      Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid

                      • 8. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        What Tom said. For the most part, transcoding H.264 is a waste of time, especially if you have a reasonably decent editing system. These days, 75% of my source material is H.264 of one sort or another, and I work with it right out of the box in Premiere Pro.

                        • 9. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                          tallscot Level 1

                          H.264 is a long-gop 4:2:0 8 bit format. Why would you want to limit your FX and color grading to 8 bit? Also, it takes much longer to render out your project if you are using the h.264 footage from your camera.

                           

                          The performance hit you get using the native iterframe codec is there no matter what your hardware is. Maybe you don't notice it with a few tracks, but at some point you will see a serious difference in responsiveness if your project gets large enough.

                           

                          I too have a Mac Pro loaded up with RAM, etc., and I've tested both native h.264 and transcoded ProRes and the ProRes was much faster rendering, much more responsive as I edited, and the color had less banding after grading.

                           

                          Just my opinion.

                          • 10. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                            ExactImage Level 3

                            We are running both Mac OSX and Windows 7 with Premiere Pro and move projects back and forth as needed.

                             

                            We stopped transcoding H264 a while back and now we edit EVERYTHING natively.  The thing that made the final difference was using a CUDA card in the Mac Pro.  We sold off the iMacs that could be upgraded. 

                             

                            There are a couple of gotchas when moving projects back and forth, one of which is that while the Mac project will find all the files etc needed by a project created in windows, it does have a habbit of dumping lots of temp files on the Mac HD root as soon as it starts conforming and you have to go in to the projects and clean up paths etc. Probably no big deal, but something to be aware of.

                            • 11. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                              Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                              Why would you want to limit your FX and color grading to 8 bit?

                              I'm afraid, regard to PrPro it's a delusion...

                               

                              • 12. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                lasvideo Level 4

                                Hey Fuzzy, isnt it a little strange that Jason never ONCE played back the timeline with all the various formats on it 

                                • 13. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                  Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                  Since I was talking about colour depth - no.

                                  • 14. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                    Language can sure make communication a challenge sometimes.

                                     

                                    I was humorously referring to the fact that Jason is saying how cool PrP is to be able to play all those different clips, but never actually played the timeline for us to see the clips actually playback. Do you understand the humor in this irony?

                                    • 15. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                      tallscot Level 1

                                      I just did a quick test. I took 6 clips from a 5D Mark II totally 3:30 and put them in CS5.5.2, applied a color effect (green tint), rendered it out at match sequence settings. Took 6 minutes to render and CPU was at 650% (I have an 8 core Mac Pro).

                                       

                                      I took the same original clips, transcoded into ProRes 422 HQ using Compressor, brought those in, copied and pasted the same color effect onto those clips, exported out using same settings. It took 4 minutes 10 seconds to render, 550% CPU.

                                       

                                      It took 4 minutes for Compressor to transcode the footage to ProRes. Because of the hit you take every time you export native h.264, I don't think working with native is a time saver, overall. I guess it depends on how often you export. I'd like to do a test for 'real time' playback speed later today.

                                       

                                      Attached are images from the resulting movies. The top is ProRes 422 HQ the bottom is native h.264.

                                       

                                      prores.png

                                      h.264 with banding in shadows.png

                                      • 16. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                        lasvideo Level 4

                                        According to Adobe technicians, when you have any clip on the timeline and apply an effect (like 3 Way Color Corrector) to it, you are operating in 32 bit float space. So the extra step of transcoding is an unnecessary waste of time. If you use the 3 Way CC it will also play (on most clips and systems) in real time time and render 60% faster then if you used a non accelerated effects like Colorista 2. You also get a certain amount of generation loss when transcoding clips. Why not use PrP in the manner it was designed to be used?

                                        • 17. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                          tallscot Level 1

                                          lasvideo wrote:

                                           

                                          According to Adobe technicians, when you have any clip on the timeline and apply an effect (like 3 Way Color Corrector) to it, you are operating in 32 bit float space. So the extra step of transcoding is an unnecessary waste of time. If you use the 3 Way CC it will also play (on most clips and systems) in real time time and render 60% faster then if you used a non accelerated effects like Colorista 2. You also get a certain amount of generation loss when transcoding clips. Why not use PrP in the manner it was designed to be used?

                                           

                                          Did you read my post?

                                          • 18. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                            lasvideo Level 4

                                            Rhetorical question I guess. If I hadnt read it, would I have responded?  

                                             

                                            Talsicott "H.264 is a long-gop 4:2:0 8 bit format.Why would you want to limit your FX and color grading to 8 bit?............" I don't think working with native is a time saver" 

                                             

                                            Are these not your comments?

                                            • 19. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                              Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                              Do you understand the humor in this irony?

                                              Jason often... um-m-m... exaggerate some things. Especially when he is talking about performance. I just don't care, 'cos I was talking about alleged '8-bit limits', but not about performance.

                                              ...Took 6 minutes to render...

                                              ...took 4 minutes 10 seconds to render... took 4 minutes for Compressor to transcode...

                                              Not sure I understand your math... As for me 8+ minutes is 150% of 6 minutes...

                                              Anyway, as I already mentioned twice I was not talking about performance, I was talking about nonexistent '8-bit limit' for editing compressed footages natively...

                                              • 20. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                tallscot Level 1

                                                Are these not your comments?

                                                 

                                                Not the most recent comment, no. It appears you haven't read that one.

                                                • 21. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                  tallscot Level 1

                                                  Not sure I understand your math... As for me 8+ minutes is 150% of 6 minutes...

                                                  Anyway, as I mentioned twice already I was not talking about performance, I was talking about nonexistent '8-bit limit' for editing compressed footages natively...

                                                   

                                                  Your math is correct if you only render your project one time ever. But over the duration of a project, I happen to render many times. Every time you render native h.264, it takes longer.

                                                   

                                                  And I realize you were referring to the color.

                                                  • 22. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                    I don't know if I am simply retarded or you have flunked your math exams, but

                                                     

                                                    Not sure I understand your math... As for me 8+ minutes is 150% of 6 minutes...

                                                     

                                                    8 divided by 6 is around 1.33, or around 133%, so please explain where I went wrong? Did I misunderstand you or did you make a mistake?

                                                    • 23. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                      tallscot Level 1

                                                      The exact % isn't really the main point here. The point is every time you render out native h.264 from Premiere Pro CS5.5.2, it will take significantly longer than if you are using an intra-frame codec, like ProRes. That time adds up to being a lot more than the one time it takes to transcode at the beginning of a project.

                                                       

                                                      So the sarcastic video made by Adobe pointing out that transcoding is such a time killer is false. And we haven't even examined the responsiveness of the application itself when using inter-frame codecs versus intra-frame.

                                                       

                                                      Lasvideo, transcoding into a 'lossless' codec, like ProRes, does not give you a generational loss.

                                                      • 24. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                        lasvideo Level 4

                                                        Taliscot, your knowledge of math is only rivaled by your knowledge of Prores

                                                         

                                                        "ProRes is technically a lossy codec that discards information during the conversion process, just like Motion-JPEG and MPEG-2. But with all lossy codecs, the amount of information discarded determines the amount of quality loss—the more you compress, the more you lose."

                                                        • 25. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                          Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                                          Regard to math, that was my fault...

                                                          I wonder how I was able to indulge myself to be so inattentive to such important point ?..

                                                           

                                                          One more chance, please !!!

                                                          One minute consists of 60 seconds.

                                                          6 minutes equals 360 seconds.

                                                          8 minutes equals 480 seconds.

                                                          8 minutes 10 seconds equals 490 seconds.

                                                          490 seconds divided by 360 seconds equals... 1.3611111111111111111111111111...

                                                          1.3611111111111111111111111111 multiplied by 100% equals... 136.11111111111111111111111111% !!!

                                                           

                                                          Harm, did I pass now?

                                                          • 26. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                            tallscot Level 1

                                                            That's nice, lasvideo. Why do you think I put lossless in quotes? If the difference between ProRes and native h.264 is discernible by your eyes, it makes me wonder why you would even be shooting in h.264 in the first place. I posted one image of each. Everyone can decide for themselves.

                                                             

                                                            The fact is it takes a lot more time to render out native h.264 than using ProRes footage if you add up every time you render while working on an entire project. So the argument put forth that it saves time to not transcode is false.

                                                             

                                                            And I'll examine the responsiveness of the app itself while working with native h.264 versus ProRes.

                                                            • 27. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                              If your system (PC of course, MAC's are a different species) is properly equipped, setup and tuned, you get render times that are only a fraction of the time-line length, often less than 5% rendering time of the time-line. So a 8 minute time-line will normally render in about 24 seconds, depending of course on the number and complexity of the effects in use. That number will not increase over time with multiple renders, unless you have an ill-tuned system. Rendering ten times the same sequence does not show decreased performance results.

                                                              • 28. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                Congrats, you passed.

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                • 29. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                  tallscot Level 1

                                                                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  If your system (PC of course, MAC's are a different species) is properly equipped, setup and tuned, you get render times that are only a fraction of the time-line length, often less than 5% rendering time of the time-line. So a 8 minute time-line will normally render in about 24 seconds, depending of course on the number and complexity of the effects in use. That number will not increase over time with multiple renders, unless you have an ill-tuned system. Rendering ten times the same sequence does not show decreased performance results.

                                                                   

                                                                  The time it takes to render any given project is moot. The difference in time it takes to render h.264 native versus ProRes, multiplied by how many times you render during a project, is what matters.

                                                                   

                                                                  Whether or not my Mac or PCs are 'setup and tuned' is irrelevant.

                                                                   

                                                                  I exported with 'Match Sequence Settings' that resulted in MPEG files with 'Use Maximum Render Quality' checked. But I used the same settings for both. You want me to try different settings and see if there is a difference? Thanks.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                    Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                                                    Would be impossible without Excel...

                                                                    • 31. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                      ExactImage Level 3

                                                                      tallscot wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      I just did a quick test. I took 6 clips from a 5D Mark II totally 3:30 and put them in CS5.5.2, applied a color effect (green tint), rendered it out at match sequence settings. Took 6 minutes to render and CPU was at 650% (I have an 8 core Mac Pro).

                                                                       

                                                                      I took the same original clips, transcoded into ProRes 422 HQ using Compressor, brought those in, copied and pasted the same color effect onto those clips, exported out using same settings. It took 4 minutes 10 seconds to render, 550% CPU.

                                                                       

                                                                      It took 4 minutes for Compressor to transcode the footage to ProRes. Because of the hit you take every time you export native h.264, I don't think working with native is a time saver, overall. I guess it depends on how often you export. I'd like to do a test for 'real time' playback speed later today.

                                                                       

                                                                      Attached are images from the resulting movies. The top is ProRes 422 HQ the bottom is native h.264.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Well, it's really not as simple as that in the real world.   It used to take us 12-18 hours to transcode followed by x hours editing (lets call that 40) then perhaps another 2 hours export from FCP after which we still needed to compress for DVD.

                                                                       

                                                                      Now, with Premiere Pro it takes around 1 hour to ingest and conform + 40 hour edit + 1.5 hours export AND compress for DVD.

                                                                       

                                                                      So, 18+40+2 = 60

                                                                      1+40+1.5 = 42.5

                                                                       

                                                                      Tell again me how transcoding saved us time?

                                                                      • 32. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                        Votary105 Level 1

                                                                        I see that you guys/girls are all talking about rendering more than just once the project is done. We dont use effects and would only use colour correction and maybe a few other things. I grab the 15 hours footage off 3-5 different cameras (3-4hrs from each camera) and then it gets transcoded into Prores, than i add it, edit it, then i give it to the boss as he does the colour correction since i am still learning and then thats it. A finished project in FCP at the moment. All we do is preview it through the timeline in FCP, create a feature length project and export and compress for DVD.

                                                                         

                                                                        What are you doing all these renderings for?

                                                                        • 33. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                          tallscot Level 1

                                                                          ExactImage wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          tallscot wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          I just did a quick test. I took 6 clips from a 5D Mark II totally 3:30 and put them in CS5.5.2, applied a color effect (green tint), rendered it out at match sequence settings. Took 6 minutes to render and CPU was at 650% (I have an 8 core Mac Pro).

                                                                           

                                                                          I took the same original clips, transcoded into ProRes 422 HQ using Compressor, brought those in, copied and pasted the same color effect onto those clips, exported out using same settings. It took 4 minutes 10 seconds to render, 550% CPU.

                                                                           

                                                                          It took 4 minutes for Compressor to transcode the footage to ProRes. Because of the hit you take every time you export native h.264, I don't think working with native is a time saver, overall. I guess it depends on how often you export. I'd like to do a test for 'real time' playback speed later today.

                                                                           

                                                                          Attached are images from the resulting movies. The top is ProRes 422 HQ the bottom is native h.264.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          Well, it's really not as simple as that in the real world.   It used to take us 12-18 hours to transcode followed by x hours editing (lets call that 40) then perhaps another 2 hours export from FCP after which we still needed to compress for DVD.

                                                                           

                                                                          Now, with Premiere Pro it takes around 1 hour to ingest and conform + 40 hour edit + 1.5 hours export AND compress for DVD.

                                                                           

                                                                          So, 18+40+2 = 60

                                                                          1+40+1.5 = 42.5

                                                                           

                                                                          Tell again me how transcoding saved us time?

                                                                           

                                                                          You are comparing an older Mac and FCP to a new machine with Premiere Pro? I'm discussing Premier Pro versus Premiere Pro. Your experience with previous versions of FCP are moot now, BTW, because FCP X can edit the native stuff too, or it can transcode it in the background as you edit while it's doing that.

                                                                           

                                                                          But the point here is Premiere Pro renders native h.264 much slower than it does ProRes on the same machine. So every single time you render out a sequence or anything from Premiere Pro, it till take longer, and all of that adds up. So I'm saying the 40 hours it takes to edit is not 40 hours with both h.264 and ProRes footage. It should take less time with ProRes.

                                                                           

                                                                          But besides the extra time it takes to render h.264, the editing software itself is slower and less responsive. It's just a fact that the inter-frame codecs, like h.264, require a lot more processing power to present than the intra-frame codecs, like ProRes. It's having to calculate between the key frames, whereas it does not with intra-frame.

                                                                           

                                                                          That's why Premiere Pro is less responsive when you are editing h.264 versus ProRes. Heck, just scrubbing the timeline in Premiere Pro is a lot less smooth with the h.264 footage than the same footage in ProRes with no effects or titles or graphics. I'm doing it right now. ProRes is nice and smooth, I can scrub around and I'm getting a lot of frames per second. With the h.264 footage, it's having to do a huge calculation and it's very spotty with how smooth it is. It's much slower. As I add more tracks, gaussian blur, etc., the h.264 sequence is pathetically slow, the ProRes is much more responsive. I literally have to wait for Premiere Pro to bring up the h.264 frame that I just scrubbed to.

                                                                           

                                                                          I just ran Activity Monitor and watched the CPU Usage while editing in Premiere Pro with h.264 and then ProRes, the h.264 sequence had all 8 of my cores maxed out. The ProRes had all of them at around 5%. It's amazing. I've attached screen grabs of this.

                                                                          h.264.gifprores.gif

                                                                          • 34. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                            tallscot Level 1

                                                                             

                                                                            What are you doing all these renderings for?

                                                                             

                                                                            Well, I'm editing films, and there are many scenes in a film and as you finish a scene or add a color grading or do a sound foley treatment or music treatment, you upload them to Vimeo for the director and the producer to see and approve.

                                                                             

                                                                            Or if you are doing a corporate video and you complete a sequence out of a dozen, you upload it for them to review.

                                                                             

                                                                            Seriously?

                                                                            • 35. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                              Votary105 Level 1

                                                                              I have only been editing for about 6months (did it for a year or so about 5 years ago) so i am incredibly new still. We are mainly doing wedding videos (90%). The only things added is colour correction and music.

                                                                               

                                                                              Yes seriously. Just showed my lack of knowledge on the subject.

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks

                                                                              • 36. Re: Using Premiere Pro on OSX and Win7
                                                                                ExactImage Level 3

                                                                                tallscot wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                ExactImage wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                tallscot wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I just did a quick test. I took 6 clips from a 5D Mark II totally 3:30 and put them in CS5.5.2, applied a color effect (green tint), rendered it out at match sequence settings. Took 6 minutes to render and CPU was at 650% (I have an 8 core Mac Pro).

                                                                                 

                                                                                I took the same original clips, transcoded into ProRes 422 HQ using Compressor, brought those in, copied and pasted the same color effect onto those clips, exported out using same settings. It took 4 minutes 10 seconds to render, 550% CPU.

                                                                                 

                                                                                It took 4 minutes for Compressor to transcode the footage to ProRes. Because of the hit you take every time you export native h.264, I don't think working with native is a time saver, overall. I guess it depends on how often you export. I'd like to do a test for 'real time' playback speed later today.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Attached are images from the resulting movies. The top is ProRes 422 HQ the bottom is native h.264.

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Well, it's really not as simple as that in the real world.   It used to take us 12-18 hours to transcode followed by x hours editing (lets call that 40) then perhaps another 2 hours export from FCP after which we still needed to compress for DVD.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Now, with Premiere Pro it takes around 1 hour to ingest and conform + 40 hour edit + 1.5 hours export AND compress for DVD.

                                                                                 

                                                                                So, 18+40+2 = 60

                                                                                1+40+1.5 = 42.5

                                                                                 

                                                                                Tell again me how transcoding saved us time?

                                                                                 

                                                                                You are comparing an older Mac and FCP to a new machine with Premiere Pro? I'm discussing Premier Pro versus Premiere Pro. Your experience with previous versions of FCP are moot now, BTW, because FCP X can edit the native stuff too, or it can transcode it in the background as you edit while it's doing that.

                                                                                 

                                                                                When we first started using Premiere Pro we were still transcoding a lot of footage.  It STILL TOOK 18 HOURS to transcode for Premiere Pro.  

                                                                                 

                                                                                So PP vs PP with transcoding - by the time we'd transcoded we would already be half the edit behind !!

                                                                                 

                                                                                Editing native only does not slow us down at all, and the export time difference is negligable compared to the original transcode time.

                                                                                 

                                                                                You are suggesting FCP-X as an alternative?   Give me a break.  It's still a toy where multicam is concerned.