24 Replies Latest reply on Feb 13, 2017 11:23 AM by mizliz

    InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background

    emilydenaro

      I am using InDesign CS5 and exporting with NitroPDF.

       

      This problem seemed to begin when I started designing a CD for someone who sent me the CD printer's InDesign template that they demand I work off of. I am wondering if some sort of setting stuck.

       

      I recently encountered a problem when pdfing anything with a black background (made in Indesign) that includes an image  wherein the image does not go to the edge of a box. The image on the black background can have a matching black in it, have a transparency, have a path around it, etc. -- it does not matter.  The image file can be a .tiif, .jpg, .psd---doesn't matter. All the image files and colors used are all in CMYK. No RGB is in the file. When I export to PDF, it will look fine on the screen, but once it prints, the image appears, but there is a black box that is different from the black background--even if the image itself includes black in it that has a matching CMYK split. This problem does NOT occur if I export to a JPEG.

       

      When I view the document in InDesign with overprint preview, my CMYK splits never look off, and reflect what SHOULD be happening upon printing to PDF.

       

      I have tried:

      - object knockout, isolation blending of objects

      - changing the "appearance of black settings", including the overprint setting

      - changing the color conversion options in the print preference menu upon export (i.e. keep numbers, don't convert, etc.)

      - using my own 100% K swatch, instead of InDesign Black or Registration (I also tried using a rich black with all items and I still get the same issue)

       

      Nothing works. Any assistance is HIGHLY appreciated! Thank you in advance.

       

      Note: I cannot view color separations in NitroPDF

       

      The image below is a scan of the print out. Note the box around the yellow A.

       

      scan example.jpg

        • 1. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
          Stix Hart Level 5

          You mention Nitro PDF, which i assume you are printing from?  Have you tried viewing and printing from Adobe reader?  It's free and will at least get Nitro out of the picture for trouble shooting purposes.

          • 2. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
            emilydenaro Level 1

            I have tried to also print through PrimoPDF (which is basically the same thing but opens it in Primo Reader.) I have also tried printing from PhotoShop, Preview, etc. I don't think it is my printer, but rather a workflow problem.

            • 4. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
              emilydenaro Level 1

              Tried this, didn't work. If I export the same item to JPG and print it out, it does not happen. Furthermore, if I export to JPG and then proof to PDF, it does not happen. I have been using this exact same bunch of software before without incident. This problem only started after working with this template (that I only used for one job).

              • 5. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                emilydenaro Level 1

                I also have tried to print using PDF995 with no luck. I know Nitro and Primo have two different color management items and Nitro is a RGB style... but it has not troubled me in the past. When I do a straight export, the "creator" of the file is InDesign....

                • 6. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                  Bo LeBeau Level 4

                  Why are you using a third-party PDF creator?

                  You can export a PDF from InDesign, File menu - Export - Adobe PDF- Print.

                   

                  But read the link that Peter Spier posted. This is a well known issue.

                  And yes, people who are aware of this do call it YDB (yucky discolored box)

                   

                  I realize the Nitro PDF is much cheaper that Acrobat Pro, but often you get what you pay for.

                  Not being able to view Separations, or Total Ink Limit, etc is an important consideration when buying software.

                   

                  But all said and done, you can place your PDF into an InDesign document and use InDesign's Separation Preview.

                  Window menu - Output - Separations Preview or use Shift F6 on your keyboard..

                  • 7. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    JPEG is a fully raster format and would not show YDB. You only get that when you have raster content (your image) on top of vector content (A native ID shape).

                     

                    And what, exactly, is your objection to using ID's built-in PDF library and exporting your PDF using File > Export...? Or am I misunderstanding soomething here? And what's withthe refusal to test your PDF using Reader? Third-party PDF viewers frequently fail to to output ID's complex PDF correctly.

                     

                    Have you tried printing this on any other printer?

                    • 8. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                      emilydenaro Level 1

                      Not all of us have the luxury of purchasing the correct items for their corporation. Thanks.

                       

                      As I stated before, I have been exporting--that is why I have tried printing vs. exporting.

                       

                      As I also stated, the YDB solution offered in that thread did not work, thus why I started this discussion topic.

                       

                      No, you don't "get what you pay for" when it worked before! I am trying to figure out what this template reordered in my workflow.

                       

                      As I also stated, I did view the separations in InDesign and they are always as they should be, which is why it is odd that it should change. Might I note, when I print out via separations with Primo, these splits per page are also as they should be. I don't know why they are merging improperly when the colors work together in one pdf.

                       

                      Not to be rude, but when replying to discussions like this, please read all the threads--or at the least the first one--before posting a reply just for the sake of replying.

                      • 9. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                        emilydenaro Level 1

                        Peter - I don't have a Reader to export to (Acrobat and Distiller can print, btw, in my experience, reader does not, but that is just my understanding....) Furthermore, I have been exporting.

                        • 10. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          In your original post you said you were exporting with Nitro PDF (a product I know nothing about), which implies, at least to me, that you are NOT using ID's built in export and PDF library. You don't need ANY other software to make PDFs with ID -- it's all built in.

                           

                          Adobe Reader is a free application, and yes, it does print. It can't make a new PDF from your file, but it will definitely give you the best possible output from a valid PDF, both on screen and in print.

                           

                          If you'd like to zip up this file, and one that does what you think is right, along with PDFs you've produced from both of them using the same technique, I'd be happy to take a look and see if I can spot the difference. You can post a link here, and others will also be able to look, or send me a link by private message (click my name to go to my profile), or I can send you a link to a drop-box where you can upload for me. I'm about to hit 12 hours on the job today, though, so my eyes are starting to lose focus and I might not get to it this afternoon, and I think I'm off apartment hunting with my daughter tomorrow, so you might not hear back from me until Friday.

                          • 11. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                            emilydenaro Level 1

                            Ah, sorry for the exporting misunderstanding. I thought it was implied that since you can't export using a product, it's through ID. The NitroPDF is what it is exporting to and thus where I thought there could potentially be a driver disconnect within the workflow.

                             

                            And I guess things have changed with reader... the X version gives you a limited amount of printing, according to the download site? Never heard of that before.... Who knew? I was always steered towards Acrobat Distiller if using any printing where an Adobe product was accessible.

                            • 12. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                              Stix Hart Level 5

                              They've always been able to print.  Personally I don't like Reader X, you can get Reader 9 from here.

                              • 13. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                emilydenaro wrote:

                                 

                                Ah, sorry for the exporting misunderstanding. I thought it was implied that since you can't export using a product, it's through ID. The NitroPDF is what it is exporting to and thus where I thought there could potentially be a driver disconnect within the workflow.

                                I'm confused. From ID you export to PDF (and get asked where to save the file). It sounds more like you are printing to PDF using Nitro PDF as a substitute for Distiller. Would you mind listing the commands you use to do that so I understand the workflow?

                                 

                                 

                                And I guess things have changed with reader... the X version gives you a limited amount of printing, according to the download site? Never heard of that before.... Who knew? I was always steered towards Acrobat Distiller if using any printing where an Adobe product was accessible.

                                What do you mean by a limited amount of printing? Distiller has no print function at all, nor any other fuction than to distill postscript into (flattened and primitive) PDF.

                                • 14. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                  emilydenaro Level 1

                                  Reader is a PS printer?? I can print from it to a printer, but I have never heard of using it as a PS printer to make a PDF.

                                  • 15. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                    emilydenaro Level 1

                                    Oy.

                                     

                                    I have tried MAKING a pdf in InDesign by BOTH exporting to a PDF file as well as by printing to a PDF file.

                                     

                                    Each method causes the same problem, which started in October 2011.

                                     

                                    When I have attempted printing to a PDF file, I have used the only PS printers I have: NitroPDF, PrimoPDF, and PDF995. I can print to a physical printer in any of these applications' viewers (NitroPDF Reader, PrimoPDF Reader), including Adobe Reader, PhotoShop and Preview, and yet I still get the problem with the box. Even when bringing files to other physical printers, still the same issue.

                                     

                                    I guess some of the jargon is lost--at all of the establishments I have worked at, when we were doing preflight, we would "print to distiller" to ensure all of our separations were solid for the commercial printer.

                                    • 16. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      No, Reader is not a printer device (nor is distiller, though it is called by the old Adobe PDF virtual printer). Reader is a viewer that will print your output from the PDF to a real printer.

                                       

                                      I think there's a lot of confusion here about terminology and what print and export mean. If you make your PDF using any command that involves File > Print.... and chose some application or printer to make the PDF, you are NOT exporting to PDF, you are printing to file, then converting the file to PDF in some way as a second step (behind the scenes).

                                      • 17. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        When you make your PDF by using File > Export.... or File > Adobe PDF Presets > what settings are you using? One of the predefined presets, or something custom? If custom, waht are the settings?

                                         

                                        You said you use the custom flattener method from the YDB article and it didn't work. Let's verify that you actually created the custom flattener and that you actually applied it, either in the print dialog when printing to PDF, or in the Export dialog when exporting (which requires that your settings use Acrobat 4 compatibility to accomplish the flattening -- exporting to Acrobat 5 or higher will not flatten).

                                        • 18. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                          emilydenaro Level 1

                                          I know

                                           

                                          I have done both things: Export. AND. Print to File/PDF. They are, indeed, two different things. Thanks for spelling it out for others who may be confused.

                                           

                                          I have made the custom flattener and named it as a new flattening method. I have applied in both instances, (Always located under Advanced > TF Preset > Choosen preset which reflects the YDB fix.) Nada.

                                           

                                          I have used every kind of color management imaginable from No Convert Color, Converting to Destination... I have tried all the built in presets plus customs... Nothin.

                                           

                                          I am wondering if there is something that attaches itself to the bounding box within InDesign when it holds an image, rather than text or nothing? It seems odd that this would happen even when I have a clipping path, but still a bounding box showing a weird fill. Odd that this also only seems to happen with black-on-black, even when I select/deselect overprints or knockouts.

                                          • 19. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            It certainly SOUNDS like you've done things correctly, but there clearly is some problem that we're just not seeing. It really would help to look at the file...

                                            • 20. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                              mizliz

                                              I have the same issue. I hit an unfortunate keystroke and now my black backgrounds won't convert to pdf. If I print straight from ID, it prints. but when I convert it to pdf, the black doesn't print. Clue? In swatches, my None, Registration and Black are crossed out. How do i bring them back?

                                               

                                              k

                                              • 21. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                                Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                You've replied to a message that's six years old. Please tell us about your version of InDesign, and how you're creating the PDF file (what PDF preset). What PDF viewer are you using to view the PDF file?

                                                • 22. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                                  mizliz Level 1

                                                  I am using CS6 and I exported to pdf. I think it is the viewer because I downloaded Reader DC. The black was there, it was printing, i just wasn't seeing it because of some setting in DC.

                                                  • 23. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                                    Steve Werner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    What operating system are you running CS6 in? It isn't compatible with the latest Windows or Mac OS versions.

                                                    • 24. Re: InDesign CS5 export to PDF issue with black background
                                                      mizliz Level 1

                                                      Still on 97 but good to know.