Show in overprint preview?
Ariel, that last post came in blank...
That's a shame. I'll try again:
Everything's fine in overprint preview.
(Incidentally, I'm on the ME version).
I've created a one-page file of the problematic page. I'd be very
interested if anyone can replicate this problem. It's line 28 the has
the last 2/3 of the line disappear when a PDF is created. Here's the link:
I'll give it a shot. What settings have you been using?
Yup about half the line dropping out here, too with PDF/X-4 andCS5.5 (and a missing font).
I seem to remember some other reports of troubles with that particular font. Does it still do it if use something else (I know, a horrible thought for recomposition!)?
Really weird. You're not using the ME version, right?
I was just exporting to PDF via Press Quality.
Tried here with Bembo Book MT Std, and Adobe Garamond Pro (as well as
Garamond Premier Pro), and get the same result with all three fonts.
I see the text that drops out is using Garamond Premier Pro, which is not missing, and has never caused me any trouble before. Still drops out after a trip through inx, too. I'm stumped.
Right, I'm on the US version, and .inx should have stripped out any ME plugin info. VERY strange.
I tried inxing, idmling, and recomposing all stories. Nothing helps.
Aha! Switching from Adobe World Ready Paragraph Composer to Adobe
Paragraph Composer fixes the PDF output for me, even though there is no
visible difference in InDesign.
Can you test that in CS5.5 US?
It had no composer selected when it First opens (not so surprising, I think -- does my version recognize the WR Composer without World Tools?).
I think CS5.5 has all the composers and ME stuff built in. World Tools
just gives you a UI to control them.
Do you have a choice of composers in the flyout of the control panel? ME
users have 4 options: (World Ready and non-World Ready, each with a
paragraph and line composer option = 4).
Doesn't it strike you as strange that initially NO composer was selected
for that paragraph?
Sorry, reading more carefully what you say, it seems clear that you
don't have a World Ready Paragraph (or Line) composer option, and that
therefore nothing was selected, so it's not strange.
Still, this clearly has got to be a fairly serious bug in the World
Ready Composer. I'm going to log it.
I see only paragraph or single line composers listed, no mention of World Ready. I think the composer is there, just not accessible to the UI without a script or plugin in the non-ME version.
Perhaps no composer was selected because I couldn't see your previous ME composer selection. Do you see that in the flyout on your end?
(Cross posting indeed!)
Back to the thread, I think you're right. In fact, probably that
paragraph was actually using the World Ready composer also in your
InDesign installation, and, as you say, that choice is simply not
visible in the UI. So when you switched to the regular Adobe Paragraph
Composer, everything went back to normal.
Which just shows that those guys at Winsoft who developed the World
Ready composer could really have done a better job. Thankfully Adobe's
taken that over, and they've got an open ear right now for any bugs in
this department, so I'll definitely alert them to this tomorrow.
And I'm glad you discovered what the problem is.
So am I. And in this case the workaround is simple -- switching
paragraph composers -- but if there had been any Hebrew or other RTL
languages in the paragraph, that wouldn't have been possible. Now that
we've figured this out, I think it would be worth trying to switch to
the single-line World-Ready composer if anybody happens to get stuck on
In fact, this has happened to me in the past, with Hebrew, but this is
the first time I've been able, with your help, to isolate this issue.
This is a really nasty little bug, because catching the issue depends on
an alert proofreader or author, and neither are common (authors tend not
to be too alert, and proofreaders have become a luxury that some
publishers seem to forgo these days for no apparent reason -- instead
they rely on the authors).
I think switching paragraph composers was probably coincidental. Turning off ligatures (and/or turning them back on) could have the same effect.
I suspect the real problem is that there is a gremlin in between the f's in different. If it was the problem, it could still cause you problems. You can easily delete it by moving your cursor through the word and delete the stutter. Text Wrangler has a Zap Gremlin feature.
Gremlin? Interesting. It's true that there's a discretionary hyphen in
the middle of the problematic word, but I must have added that on
purpose at some stage. It shouldn't be causing a problem.
However, I experimented with adding discretionary hyphens between
ligatures and that really seems to hit the nail on the head. The World
Ready Paragraph Composer stumbles whenever it encounters a discretionary
hyphen in between a ligature (so far this is happening only with various
f-ligatures, strangely, but not the font's Th ligature), and the rest of
the line comes out blank in the PDF if there are any.
However, ther regular Adobe paragraph composer has no such difficulties,
and, as you say, switching off ligatures also improves things -- but I
do think it's something to do with a combination of ligatures and the
World Ready composer.
Interesting. Here the the text shows no sign of a discretionary hyphen in layout view (perhaps becasue of the ligature?). The only way I was able to locate it was by using find/change to search. Removing it was enough to make the original doc export correctly, even without touching the composer.
I tried to reproduce it in a new doc, first by setting my own type with ff ligatures separated by a discretionary hyphen (no problem) and by both copying the frame and copying the text (both from CS4 and CS5.5) into new CS4 files. In all cases there were no drops that I could detect, but the CS4 copy procedures caused the text ordering and punctuation to go haywire and show hebrew characters in the footnote markers. Copying the text from CS5.5 the order and punctuation is correct, but the footnote markers are no longer superscript (probably a result of the WRC being in CS5.5?).
I think, from this testing, it's probably a bug in how the ME version handles the discretionary hyphen inside a ligature.
I think you're right that it's a bug with how the World Ready Para
Composer handles discretionary hyphens inside ligatures. I filed the bug
Being unfamiliar with ME I didn't realize the World Composer was part of InDesign, so I guess my Text Wrangler referral was useless. Still, a buggy invisible character is the definition of gremlin.
FWIW, the discretionary hyphen is visiible in the story editor.
FWIW, the discretionary hyphen is visiible in the story editor.
Yeah, once you turn on invisibles there, too. Never realized before that layout and story editors worked independently as far as display of non-printing characters (nor did I have an inling that a discretionary hyphen doesn't show in a ligature in layout view), so I got a valuable lesson out of this.
"I got a valuable lesson out of this."
?? Show invisibles is either on or off for me. And discretionary hyphens DO show in ligatures for me -- in my own files.
OK, you made me go back and look at a new file, and in MY file it's just like yours- one setting for both layout and story editor, and the hphen shows inthe layout, too.
Must be another anomaly due to the ME version that Ariel's file didn't behave that way here.