18 Replies Latest reply on Nov 25, 2011 3:50 AM by Ted Smith

    AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray

    BNK007 Level 1

      I am currently editing a project in AVCHD and plan on making DVD and BR discs.  Not all the people who want this footage have blue ray players or HD TVs.   The footage is of sporting events with lots of action and camera movement.    What I have found in doing many trial samples is the DVD quality is poor that PE10 produces when using AVCHD files.   I have done some limited editing with DV from an old camcorder in PE10 and it looks much better than the AVCHD rendered to a DVD disc.  Since the AVCHD files are much higher quality I was very disappointed that I can't get the same quality as an old camcorder that was mini DV.  After reading various forums and Steve Grisetti's book I have a work around but it seem crazy to go through all these steps.   Does this make sense?

       

      Camera Cannon HFM 41 settings used are AVCHD  1440 x 1080 60i,  I have set the PE10 project settings at HD 1080i 30 (60).  After editing about 15 minutes of video, still pictures(which have been resized), with transitions, titles, etc.  PE10 seems to be doing the editing fine.

      When taking through the Share process to DVD the quality is poor.

       

      Steve has a work around in his book where I take the project  to a computer file and save it.  The setting is under the MPEG option and is : MPEG2  1440 X 1080i30.   This file looks good on the computer screen.

      From here I take the file through "ANY Video Converter" to an AVI file.   I take this file and put it into a new PE10 project with DV settings of 720 x 480.   When I render this to a DVD the quality is OK, almost as good as other projects I have done starting with standard definition cameras.    Still a little disappointed that even the stills are quite as good.

       

      This seems like a lot of work but I have tried dozens of different ways and the quality comes out very poor.   I have considered taking the files from the camera and converting to AVI before editing but then I can' t make a BR disc.

      Is there a better way to take AVCHD to DVD and BR from one project?

      There seems to be lots of opinions on which converters are the best, not sure if I selected the best one.

        • 1. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          You do know that DVDs are standard definition video and only have about one-fourth the number of pixels of AVCHD, hi-def and BluRay, right? So a DVD file is always going to look poor if viewed at full screen. But, viewed at 100% actualy size (which will only fill a small area of your very high definition computer monitor) it should look fine.

           

          I'm not sure about your workflow though. Using ANY video converter to create your standard def file is unnecessary and inefficient -- and probably does give you poor results.

           

          Instead, in your AVCHD video, go to Share/Computer/AVI and output and AVI with the DV preset. Then open a new project -- set up for DV of course -- bring your AVI into it, place it on your timeline, add your menus and output your DVD files.

           

          Your workflow is otherwise perfect! (Based on your reference materials, how could it help but be?) You should be getting very nice looking DVD files. But judge them either at 100% actualy size (which will only take up about a 640x480 are on your monitor) or, even better, burn yoru DVD and test them out on your TV. The results should look as good as the original -- except much lower resolution, of course.

          • 2. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
            BNK007 Level 1

            Steve,

            I am judging the video quality on my TV after I have burned the DVD not just on the computer screen.   I then compare the new DVD with some of my other work from past projects where I have used DV files off a older mini Dv camcorder and it was edited in PE10 with DV project settings and output to a DVD. 

             

            I have burned probably more than a dozen DVDs trying various options. My wife is making comments like when I get done perhaps I could make a DISCO ball with all the left over DVD coasters.  What you recomended above AVCHD video, go to Share/Computer/AVI  then back to a new project with standard DV setting I tried early on.   The results were very poor.  I got better quality going AVCHD video, to Share/Computer/ MPEG  setting MPEG2  1440 X 1080i30.  Then converting it to AVI out side of PE10.   Putting that back into the time line of a new PE10 project with DV settings and the burning a DVD.  It is OK this way but not quite as good as my work previously with a DV camcorder. 

             

            When I go to Computer / AVI advanced options there doesn't seem to be much I can do to change quality settings, unlike some of the other output formats that PE10 offers.  

             

            Is there some settings in Share/computer/AVI that perhaps I am missing?  Any other suggestions??

             

            Another question I have which is sort of related,  my project will probably be about 1hr-30 minutes.  I was concerened with my computer handling the AVCHD editing for this much information, for now I have just did 15 minutes worth and things seem to be working OK.  By breaking things up say into 4 different projects  then outputing them to computer files say MPEG2  1440 X 1080i30 then putting those 4 files back into a new project will I be less likely to crash?  It looks like when I output with MPEG2 1440 x 1080i30 they are still AVCHD files but they have an extention of m2t.   My files coming from the camera are mts files.  I wasn't sure what project settings I should use when bringing them back together, in this case I am refering to taking this project to Blue Ray for burning.  

             

            Thanks for your help.

            • 3. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              "Poor" is pretty subjective.

               

              Are the colors faded or off? Is the picture snowy? What exactly are you seeing?

               

              Again, if crispness and resolution is your only issue, comparing DVD to AVCHD is not by any means an apples to apples comparison.

               

              If your project is properly set up and you've got good quality source video, you should not be seeing anything but decreased resolution in the transposition from AVCHD to DVD.

               

              Can you post a before and after screen capture at the same (640x480) resolution?

              • 4. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                BNK007 Level 1

                The colors are good no issues.  The project is made up of video clips and still pictues. 

                 

                When taking the project direct from AVCHD to the Share DVD, the still pictue quality is not as good as I am use to with other standard definition projects that I have done.  You can see the pixels on the TV screen , grainy looking so the people do not look very clear. I have resized the pictues to 2000 x  1330 with photoshop elements before starting the project, tried some at 1000 x 667 but not sure I could see difference.

                 

                Video quality going direct from AVCHD editing to share DVD is not too bad.   The resolution is compariable to most standard definiton projects.

                 

                Video quality suffers when taking the AVCHD to share computer  AVI files.   When bringing the AVI back into the new project and output to DVD the people running in the video blur and resolution seems to suffer greatly at times. What surprises me sometimes is the still pictues sometimes look better.

                • 5. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  Sounds like a resolution issue. As I said, that's the nature of hi-def and DVD video. They're different resoloutions.

                   

                  Can you please post a before and after screen capture, each at 640x480 pixels, so that we can see the difference in quality (other than resolution)?

                  • 6. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                    BNK007 Level 1

                    I am not sure how to post a screen capture, sorry I am a novice as you can tell.

                    • 7. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      This ARTICLE will give you one workflow for producing and then posting screen-caps to the Adobe Forum.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                        BNK007 Level 1

                        Steve,

                        Here are 4 screen shots. 

                        1 & 2 are taken from a project that was using AVCHD video and converted in PE to avi.

                        The shot on the left is originally from video, shot on right is a still from a SLR but both taken off the same time line after convert to AVI.

                        Screen shot 1 from AVCHD converted to AVI.jpgScreen shot 2 from AVCHD converted to AVI.jpg

                        Screen shots 3 & 4 were from an earlier project that used mini DV camera and settings. The one on the left is video, one on the right is a still from a SLR taken off the same time line.

                         

                        Screen shot 3 from mini DV camera.jpgScreen shot 4 - from mini DV project.jpg

                         

                        I guess I can't see much difference at this resolution.

                        • 9. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                          BNK007 Level 1

                          Thanks Bill for the article on posting images.

                          • 10. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            You are most welcome. There are also programs, like SnagIt, that will allow one to "record" multiple screen-cap images, and then process them, where the Clipboard is one image at a time. If one needs to do multiple Frames from Video, they might be worth the few extra $'s. In my case, I am usually doing single screen-caps of programs' GUI's, so the Clipboard is not a hinderence.

                             

                            Good luck, and I agree, there is not much difference between the images. Those differences could well be within the range of lenses, effective shutter angles, and even sensors in the different cameras.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                              Then there's no real problem. Resolution is the inherent difference between hi-def/BluRay and standard def/DVD.

                              • 12. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                BNK007 Level 1

                                Steve,

                                At the risk of beating a dead horse, I agree with you that there is no difference in the pictures that I posted that were taken from the computer screen.

                                I had given up on this issue until a friend brought a DVD by last night that he had burned for me.

                                 

                                A week ago I took the video I had been editing to:  share / computer / MPEG/ setting MPEG2 1440 X 1080i30 and gave it to him.

                                He authored a DVD using Sony DVD architect.  His DVD quality is better than mine authored with PE10 from the same file, when played on my HD televison.

                                The parts of the movie that came from the video camera are the same quality as PE10, but 40% of the movie is from various still photos.  These photos on his DVD movie are sharper and you don't see the pixels on the screen.

                                 

                                Any ideas on why this would occur? 

                                I looked around on the forum and noticed that DVD architect is mention a few times as a good quality DVD authoring program, and you had written a book on it.

                                • 13. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                  Assuming your using the same video as source footage for both programs, the results for DVD Architect and Premiere Elements should be identical. They both use the same Main Concept encoder.

                                   

                                  I'm not sure why you're using a 1440x1080 file as your source footage for a DVD for either program. DVDs are only 720x480, so you'd get the best results using standard definition footage.

                                   

                                  So if you're using 720x480 DV-AVIs as your source footage for Premiere Elements and for DVD Architect, your DVD footage should look identical.

                                   

                                  But you're welcome to post screen captures of both at the same resolution and we can compare them on this site.

                                  • 14. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                    BNK007 Level 1

                                    My original video was shot with 1440 x 1080 60i so that is the project settings.  Some people that I am making the movie for, don't have BR players.

                                    Here is the screen shot off the DVD player on my computer resized to 640 x480.  Not a lot of difference but on a 50" TV it is more noticeable.

                                     

                                    Screen shot 1 frm PE10.jpgScreen shot 2 from DVD architect.jpg

                                    • 15. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                      And both of these were created by loading the same DV-AVI 720x480 file into Premiere Elements and DVD Architect, right?

                                       

                                      It's not a fair comparison, after all, unless we know we're comparing apples to apples.

                                      • 16. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                        BNK007 Level 1

                                        The PE10 DVD was burned to DVD from the original project which was AVCHD 1080 60 i settings.   The file consisted of MTS video files and Jpegs resized to 2000 wide.

                                         

                                        The other DVD used the same project as listed above but I saved to a computer file using  share / computer / MPEG/ setting MPEG2 1440 X 1080i30.  I gave it to my friend and he then authored the DVD from this file with no manipulations and using DVD architect.   I do not know his settings for burn speed etc.

                                         

                                        • 17. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                          We're talking about different animals then, BNK. Going from HDV video to DVD means not only transcoding but down-rezzing and bicubic sharpening. That's a lot of variables.

                                           

                                          If you're going to do a comparison, you have to do a fair comparison. Start both programs with DV-AVIs of the same video.

                                           

                                          Though I'm not sure what more there is to say on this subject, BNK. If you're unhappy with the results in Premiere Elements, why not use DVD Architect Studio to create your discs? This isn't a contest. It's just about finding the tools you're happiest with.

                                          • 18. Re: AVCHD edit in PE10 share to DVD or Blue Ray
                                            Ted Smith Level 3

                                            You should be shooting at 1920x10801 for Blue Ray otherwise you will get an unexpected loss of quality in trying to make your final BD.

                                            1440 doesn't correspond to any horizontal TV size (usually 680,720,1366 or 1920)

                                            The loss occurs because you cant fit in an exact pixel so a sharp video transition gets averaged around a few pixels immediatley halving the apparent resolution.

                                             

                                            To see this at it's worst, set your computer adapter card to half the pixel resolution of your computer monitor and try to read fine text compared to when it is exactly the same.

                                             

                                            This matching is why true full HD 1920 x 1080 observed on a true 1920x1080 big screen is so dramatically better than all others. (Few TV transmissions are true Full HD)

                                             

                                            There is always a loss of some quality converting resolutions that are not an exact multiple of the final result.

                                             

                                            You should also be cropping and converting all stills to 16x9 1900x1080 pixels (in Photoshop) before adding to the timeline

                                             

                                            Because HD is so much better, HD camera dont need so much "high frequency" boost or sharpening as standard cameras did,

                                            They are relatively soft at the point where the pixels cease in DVDs (about 640)

                                            The HD sharpening (or crispening) is done at a much higher pixe setting setting in HD and this is completely wiped out when you convert to DVD.

                                             

                                            The way to compensate is to sharpen the video to be downconverted at the 640 pixel part of the spectrum before converting which is what most standard def broadcast cameras always did to make them apparently sharp at that lower resolution (it was all done with mirrors!)

                                             

                                            Obviously you only sharpen the file to be made to a DVD, not to the one for BD although you can often make up for a fuzzy original even in a BD!

                                             

                                            See the difference only 10% makes?

                                            SharpenedPic.jpg