14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 19, 2011 9:44 AM by able123

    Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help

    amerchandise

      Hey Everybody,

       

      I have had to re-register, so this looks like my first post!

       

      There is a colour issue which is seriously baffling us, we shot a fighting event with a 3 camera shoot. 3 Days, and on all 3 days the cameras seem to have produced different colour outputs dispite being on the same setting. Can anybody shed any light on how to match the colours here. All settings on the cameras were the same, so we are surprised that the footage has come out differently. The following day the footage from all 3 cameras were indentical. However this is the footage produced from the first shoot

       

      http://www.amerchandise.co.uk/dragongate2011/footagecolour.jpg


      We have tried bightness/contrast, levels, fast colour correction, Colour Balance and CB_HLS and still can't get the footage to match.

       

      While it would appear there might be a slight hint of over exposure when we take the brightness right down, there is hardly any highspots.

       

      If there is no solution for us to do, is there anybody who we could send a short clip, have them correct it and we can duplicate to the rest of the shots? If so what kind of expense do you think that would incur?

       

      Thanks in advance

        • 1. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
          joe bloe premiere Level 5

          If the cameras settings were identical on all three days,

          it may be possible that the venue's lighting may have

          changed after the first day.

           

          Instead of trying to 'force correct' scene B to match scene A,

          a better approach might be to find a mid-point between the two scenes

          and correct both scenes to a closer-matching compromise.

          • 2. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
            amerchandise Level 1

            It was a different venue for all 3 days, so undoubtably the lighting changed, but the issue with the above footage is that the lighting is consistant, rounded and should be perfect on both cameras.

             

            I am not sure why it has changed between the two cams. Very confusing. We have tried matching with changing both sets but can't get it to match

            • 3. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
              joe bloe premiere Level 5

              Three days of three camera shooting at three different venues...

              you should be surprised if they matched, not that they are different.

              • 4. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                amerchandise Level 1

                I don't think you are following me.

                 

                3 Cameras, each day.

                 

                Night 1 , 2 cameras don't match

                Night 2 , All Cameras match

                Night 3 , All Cameras match

                 

                The Picture above shows the 2 bits of footage shot at the same time from 2 different angles, so they should match. Perfectly, as you can see the left and right clips don't match in colour

                • 5. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                  Level 4

                  its important to use the same exact cameras on multi camera shoots. also important to take color meter and see what the lights give you. sodium vapor and tungsten and flourescent all need different " color correction" gels to make them equal 32k or 56k .. and its not just orange and blue correction ...its also green and magenta etc...

                   

                  professionally , you cant do all that at the " lens " with cc filters..you need to actually get to the lights physically ( with scissor lifts or cranes ( manlifts ) and gel the lights too ).

                   

                  Once you have your lights corrected and ready to shoot...all cameras need to shoot "color swatches - usually Kodak .. with a single light source that equals what your camera is set to ( color temp )...and that is used to get your balance correct in post.

                   

                  That said it sounds like you are screwed...

                   

                  To have someone try to correct that professionally would cost more than you can afford, or you would have used that " money " to correct your color etc in the beginning... in other words, if you could afford to send everything to a pro lab and try color correcting all that stuff, you wouldnt have this problem to begin with IMO.

                   

                  My suggestion:

                  Since wrestling is a gritty sport and " manly " and full of emotion that is basically " tough " and " hard " ....trash the color altogether and make everything black and white... maybe increase your contrast a tiny bit ...or maybe add a slight " tone " to it....( not sepia which looks just " old " , but maybe slight blue tint ? ) ...something to make it look as gritty and hard as you can...

                  Then tell client you did it on purpose !  Is part of your concept to begin with... wow them with your creativity !

                   

                   

                  • 6. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                    amerchandise Level 1

                    We used exact same cameras and as mentioned the shoot for the next two days came out perfect with a match. We have shot many of these with the same lighting, same cameras (some and the same venue) and always matched. So while I understand your ideas get different gels and set all the lighting, as mentioned we set all the lighting, it was pretty much exactly how we needed it, same as we have had at the venue before, the issue is with the camera, not the lighting, it's an issue we have noticed only in post production once the camera crew had filmed it. If we would have noticed at the shoot we would have corrected it manually with the camera on the spot. But it is also possible that what was seen in the viewfinder has not come out on file.

                     

                    You can't edit a 3 camera shoot 3 hour event in black and white although it would be nice. It isn't something which would fly.

                    • 7. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      Almost looks like the gain switch got flipped accidentally, or maybe there is some pretty horrendous lens flare going on...

                       

                      Nevertheless, I'm a bit confused by looking at your sequence set up. Did you use Multicam on this? I see the Multicam Monitor open, but not a multicam sequence/edit. If you did use Multicam, there is a way to make things a little easier when it comes to CC...

                      • 8. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                        amerchandise Level 1

                        Yeah, it to me looks like the exposure dial may have got moved, but I have tried working on the exposure.

                         

                        The set up is done so while we are editing we can see the opposite camera on Monitor 2. So looking at the timeline we have ringside left on top, ringside right and static cam. We edit manually and not using multicamera, but as we trawl the timeline the second camera is always shown on the second screen so we don't have to switch the visability off to see what the other view looks like

                        • 9. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          Ah. Well, then my suggestion won't really work. Carry on

                          • 10. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                            Level 4

                            =============

                            So while I understand your ideas get different gels and set all the lighting, as mentioned we set all the lighting, it was pretty much exactly how we needed it, same as we have had at the venue before, the issue is with the camera, not the lighting, it's an issue we have noticed only in post production once the camera crew had filmed it. If we would have noticed at the shoot we would have corrected it manually with the camera on the spot.

                            =============

                            So anyway, its kinda moot why it happened I guess...

                            I dont know if you do a DIT station at your shoots for the cameras ( to match them live etc through HD SDI out ) but that might be worth looking into next time...even just as a test of equip before the shoot starts...

                             

                            I guess what you're saying is the 2 venues that match are OK as is... and you dont need to play with that stuff.. Its only the 2 cameras that dont match in venue #1.  Those 2 cameras that dont match must be equal to camera # 3 pretty much... right ??

                             

                            You might give these people a call ( make your communication of problem concise and exact ...just what you need to do ) ..and get a bid on fixing the problem and getting the media back in format you can use for final edit on your end.  Talk to peter bavaro ( see blog on home page lower left for his email and phone ). tell him some grip in NYC suggested you call.

                             

                            http://www.sixteen19.com/

                             

                            good luck

                            • 11. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                              amerchandise Level 1

                              Yeah, the other shows were fine. And this one should have been, the previous events (last year) at the same venue with same lighting were perfect. So this one should have been aswell, The two cameras around the ring don't match each other, but the right camera and the static hard camera do match fairly well (Obviously one is shooting from a much futher distance and the compositions of the shots are different , but the two around the ring should have been perfect.

                               

                              Here is the second night. No camera changes were made really.

                               

                              http://www.amerchandise.co.uk/dragongate2011/N2_1.jpghttp://www.amerchandise.co.uk/dragongate2011/N2_2.jpg http://www.amerchandise.co.uk/dragongate2011/N2_3static.jpg

                              As you can 3 the colour on each has come up pretty close and no issues, there is no correction or colour work done on these yet. But same cameras, same lighting concept (all 4 sides lit exactly the same), we used floods insted of pars because of the venue size. But all 3 cameras match. So you have to rule out camera malfunction I guess

                              • 12. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                                Level 4

                                who knows... like Colin said, that mighta been ( at least from sample you put up ) bad lens flare ..I cant tell what cameras your using...almost looks like DSLR ?? ... on cameras that use matte boxes for filters ...if there is glass ( filter ) toward the 'front' of the matte box they tend to flare pretty bad when getting blasted by lights like you are shooting in your frame.. is nearly impossible to cut off the lens when the lights are shooting straight down the tube ( lens barrel )... hehe.. maybe tell your camera guys to favor less head room and put a french flag on lens as much as possible ( wide shots where french wont work maybe tighten up as much as possible, build a platform and get camera higher ( like level with ring ) ... although the audience might start throwing things at the cameraman who is screwing up their view ...

                                 

                                like this wouldnt hurt your frame....get those lights up there out as much as possible.

                                 

                                flare1.jpg

                                 

                                again, dont know what youre using for camera, lenses, but every little bit helps..some primes flare more easily ( and even "look" different re: coating ) than others ( brands.. like ziess icon flare a lot )..

                                 

                                Did you put up the truss and lights ??  maybe try a big bay light with teaser ( duvateen teaser around bay light ) up there.. with silk or 216 or something ....and just turn off some of those things blasting into your lenses.

                                 

                                anyway, good luck...

                                 

                                 

                                • 13. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                                  Level 4

                                  another idea...

                                   

                                  might help in future

                                   

                                  look at this and imagine a duvateen "teaser" about 18" to 2 feet in width..around the bottom of the entire lower truss pipe....that would take the curse off those lights blasting into your lenses....probably for ALL your cameras...

                                   

                                  that way you keep everything as is ...but just add the teaser around the whole truss...and see if that helps.

                                   

                                  flare2.jpg

                                   

                                  flare3.jpg

                                   

                                   

                                  • 14. Re: Confusing Colour Issues with 3 camera shoot. Please help
                                    Level 4

                                    you can use this to put the teaser up around the truss... you can use duvateen with spring clips...or you can get some 4x8 black and white foamcore sheets and cut those into 8 foot strips ...put white side in toward ring ( will just bounce some ambient stuff back into ring )...again, with spring clips...whatever...

                                     

                                    this thing goes through doorways, goes up without needing outriggers ( leveling and weight distribution things ), fits through normal doorways ( 28 " ?? ) ...and probably cost about $300 / day with delivery and pickup ( or just get with a truck yourself with hydroulic tailgate on truck )...you could travel around that ring and put up lights and teaser with this machine easily.

                                     

                                    http://www.genielift.com/ss-series/runabout.asp

                                     

                                    ps.. dont run over anyone's foot, cause it would get squashed really bad !