14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 29, 2011 9:21 AM by Noel Carboni

    Make a copy of a raw file

    John A. Groves Level 1

      How do you make a copy of a raw file, rename it and change settings WITHOUT having the the changed settings also in the original raw file?

      (Copying the file with Windows wont help)

       

      I am using Bridge (3.0.0.464) and ACR (5.7.0.213) and Win7.

        • 1. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
          RASouthworth Level 3

          I made a copy of a raw file with copy/paste in Windows 7, gave it a new name, opened in Bridge and ACR, made a drastic change, and clicked on Done.  A new .xmp was created with the same name as the copied file, and the original file's .xmp was not modified.

           

          Not sure what would happen if I were using a database instead of sidecar files, but no problem making a copy with .xmp's.

           

          Richard Southworth

          • 2. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
            Robert Shomler Level 4

            Another technique is to use Camera Raw Snapshots, which avoids need to copy the raw file and will work for changes in xmp or database.  You can save a named snapshot with your first changed settings in the raw file, then reset and change as many settings as you want to something else and save the second set of settings with a different snapshot name.  Then any time you open that raw file in ACR you can go to the snapshots tab and click on whichever snapshot name you wish to use at that time -- to save file from ACR (save with new file name) or open it in PS.  See "Save image states as snapshots in Camera Raw" in Photoshop help (cs4) or Bridge help (cs5) - both under "Managing Camera Raw settings."

            • 3. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
              John A. Groves Level 1

              Thx for the replies.

               

              1) I'm not using xmp (sidecar) files. Btw, is it possible to convert the Camera Raw Database into xmp files? Any dangers?

               

              2) Snapshots is too complicated for me. (It took me several tries to get it working...) And I want to see the thumbnails (how else could I know that there are 2 versions of the image?)

              • 4. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                Noel Carboni Level 7

                I don't know whether having two different copies of the exact same raw file and using the central database for storing settings is ever going to get you what you want.

                 

                Where is it you want to see thumbnails?  In Windows Explorer?

                 

                -Noel

                • 5. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                  John A. Groves Level 1

                  The idea should be simple enough. I think most (if not all) of the photographers make copies of their photos and process them independently. They would not be "different copies of the exact same raw file" (what ever that means).

                   

                  The settings for the copy should be independent of the original. For example I have a raw file shot late in the evening and I want to compare two versions with different color temperature.

                   

                  The thumbnails are in Bridge as stated in first post.

                  • 6. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                    RASouthworth Level 3

                    IMO the right way to do the comparison is to bring the raw file into Photoshop as an object, duplicate it as many times as you wish (as separate layers), then easily switch from one raw file rendition to another as you make adjustments.

                     

                    Richard Southworth

                     

                    Added by edit - the smart object has to be duplicated by using "new smart object via copy" as opposed to duplicating the layer.

                    • 7. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                      JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      John A. Groves wrote:

                       

                      The idea should be simple enough. I think most (if not all) of the photographers make copies of their photos and process them independently. They would not be "different copies of the exact same raw file" (what ever that means).

                       

                      The settings for the copy should be independent of the original. For example I have a raw file shot late in the evening and I want to compare two versions with different color temperature.

                       

                      The thumbnails are in Bridge as stated in first post.

                      If I'm understanding you correctly, using virtual copies in Lightroom will do exactly what you want.

                      Never mind.  I forgot which forum I was in.  That will only work in Lightroom.

                      • 8. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                        Andrew_Hart Level 2

                        In Bridge, in the Menu Bar, select Edit/Duplicate and you then have a copy of the raw file with " copy" appended to the file name. So "bonfire.nef" becomes "bonfire copy.nef". Rename the copy file further if desired. Open the copy file in ACR, make your edits and click Done. The original file is not affected by the edits in the copy file.

                        • 9. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                          Noel Carboni Level 7

                          John A. Groves wrote:

                           

                          The idea should be simple enough. I think most (if not all) of the photographers make copies of their photos and process them independently. They would not be "different copies of the exact same raw file" (what ever that means).

                           

                           

                          Assuming I'm understanding you properly, that you want to make two identical copies of your out-of-camera raw file, and have Camera Raw remember different development settings for each...

                           

                          I'm not sure I agree that many people make multiple copies of their raw files and process them independently, expecting different results depending on where the file is located on the hard drive.  I know I keep only one master copy of my original out-of-camera files then reprocess them as needed.  Of course they're backed up to the hilt, but I don't actively USE the backups as input to editing.  I always know the one place to go to get the master file for any given photo.

                           

                          I can certainly imagine the need for reprocessing the same master file into different work products.  I can only guess Adobe must feel that maintaining your SAME development settings regardless of where you might move a file to is more important than maintaining different development settings for more than one copy of a raw file depending on where it is located.

                           

                          Perhaps re-thinking the process you're using might help...  What if you inserted your (one and only copy of a) raw file as a smart object in multiple PSDs?  That way I believe the development settings would be stored in the PSD file separately for each use.  Just a thought.

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 10. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                            Robert Shomler Level 4

                            Noel Carboni wrote:

                             

                            I don't know whether having two different copies of the exact same raw file and using the central database for storing settings is ever going to get you what you want.

                            Probably not.  I recall reading that ACR uses a unique image identifier in its database, not the least to maintain connection to the raw data file through file name changes.  If that's how ACR is designed when using its central DB then a copy of a raw file would appear to ACR's DB the same as a renamed raw file and 'find' the same ACR DB entry.

                            • 11. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                              Robert Shomler Level 4

                              John A. Groves wrote:

                              ...

                              1) I'm not using xmp (sidecar) files. Btw, is it possible to convert the Camera Raw Database into xmp files? Any dangers?

                               

                              Camera Raw's export settings command will do this, but it is one by one -- one file at a time.

                              • 12. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                                Robert Shomler Level 4

                                I don't think this will work.  In Bruce Frazer and Jeff Schewe's Camera Raw for Photoshop CS4: 

                                 

                                "The Camera Raw database indexes images by their total content, not just by their filenames, so you can copy, move, or rename them willy-nilly without losing track of your raw settings ..." 

                                • 13. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                                  Robert Shomler Level 4

                                  John A. Groves wrote:

                                  ...

                                  The settings for the copy should be independent of the original. For example I have a raw file shot late in the evening and I want to compare two versions with different color temperature.

                                  Would saving each version as a different-name DNG work?  (Save Image button in ACR)  The multiple DNG files would appear in Bridge (for side-by-side comparison).

                                  • 14. Re: Make a copy of a raw file
                                    Noel Carboni Level 7

                                    Robert's post about using DNGs made me realize that one thing that's been talked-around here, but not said explicitly, is that for SOME kinds of files with open, documented formats (e.g., DNG or JPEG), development data is stored back into the raw file, while in OTHER cases development data is stored in a sidecar file or central database.

                                     

                                    Use of multiple DNGs, within which raw settings are stored back, may well facilitate a workflow that suits John's original goals.

                                     

                                    -Noel