18 Replies Latest reply on Nov 22, 2011 3:42 PM by Todd_Kopriva

    Aspect Ratio for DV Video

    Carpet Stain

      I would like to revert to the original aspect ratio for DV video before Adobe decide to change it to the useless so called correct ratio..

       

      I cannot use custom ratios as in earlier versions of premiere. Also is there a settings file I can edit.

       

      Please no lecture on correct aspect ratios, etc. This is fundamentally a useless move on Adobes part.

      The majority if not all users do not bother with 4:3 CRT monitors. I believe that overscan is not really an issue anymore.

       

      All of my clients, end users view DVD output on flat HD screens or TFT monitors.

       

      Again please no useless diatribe on if you are viewing on a HD screen then it should be bluray that you are outputting.

      All of the clients/people I know don't have bluray and have no intention to use bluray. They also predominantly view DVD's

      on largish TFT screens or PC screens very much like myself.

       

      Put simply what would have been the problem allowing you to use the old aspect ratio or have at least included it as a choice.

        • 1. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
          joe bloe premiere Level 5

          In the New Sequence dialog, click on the Settings tab.

          Change the Editing Mode to Custom, and then you can

          change whatever parameters you like.

          If it's a setting you'll want to reuse, save it.

           

          I'm not sure why you have such a sh***y attitude.

          Were you mistreated as a child?

          • 2. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            We have been having these new par's since 3 cycles now.

            If you do not like the slim black vertical bars, crop them off on export in the export settings.

            • 3. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              I think the only option you may have here is to go back and use Premiere Pro CS3.

               

              Or, since you have no intention of delivering in HD, just shoot in DV from the start.

              • 4. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                Carpet Stain Level 1

                joe bloe premiere wrote:

                 

                In the New Sequence dialog, click on the Settings tab.

                Change the Editing Mode to Custom, and then you can

                change whatever parameters you like.

                If it's a setting you'll want to reuse, save it.

                 

                I'm not sure why you have such a sh***y attitude.

                Were you mistreated as a child?

                OK Joe Hi. My apologies if you think I've got a ****** attitude but I cannot forgive Adobe for doing the "right thing"

                Its an irelevant change and not required.

                 

                I can't see how your method gets round the par problem. Please educate me as you still only have a few choices of aspect ratios.

                Premiere 4 had at least the option to modify your own custom aspect ratio in the output stages.

                • 5. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                  Carpet Stain Level 1

                  Ann Bens wrote:

                   

                  We have been having these new par's since 3 cycles now.

                  If you do not like the slim black vertical bars, crop them off on export in the export settings.

                  Yes I am aware of this being present since Premiere CS4 and I thought back then that it was a stupid move.

                   

                  Regardless CS4 is the worst premiere as regards coding. Terrible media encoder and memory handling, its no

                  surprise that Adobe moved entirely to a 64bit system.

                   

                  By the way I've used Premiere since 6.5 days and my preference is for CS5 and I prefer version 2 and 3 to 4

                   

                  Please explain to me on how you crop them off in export settings by the way, because I cannot see how to do that exactly.

                  • 6. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                    Carpet Stain Level 1

                    Jim Simon wrote:

                     

                    I think the only option you may have here is to go back and use Premiere Pro CS3.

                     

                    Or, since you have no intention of delivering in HD, just shoot in DV from the start.

                    You are correct there in that I tend to use CS2 and CS3 for video work that will end up on DVD.

                    I use CS5 if its generally any other media output. web based, etc.

                     

                    Also I think you should understand that a project has to satisfy quite a few delivery platforms.

                    For example many of my clients want a DVD as well as say a 1280 X 720 web based video.

                     

                    So how does shoot in DV from the start exactly help there.

                     

                    Thanks for the response though.

                    • 7. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      Well, if you also need HD delivery, you obviously can't shoot in SD.

                       

                      So that leaves three options.  Leave the black bars in the SD version. (Even most flat panels still overscan.  In my experience, only some high end models actually display the entire raster.)  Scale the footage up slightly to get rid of the black bars.  Or shoot using a format that CS3 supports and just use that for everything.

                      • 8. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        Click the Crop button on the Export Settings Source Tab. Enter values to crop off the top and bottom or sides of the image for export. Click the Output tab to see the result of the crop. Export.

                         

                        BTW: For export to DV, 8 pixels off the top and bottom works for 720p, 12 pixels for 1080i/p.

                        • 10. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                          Carpet Stain Level 1

                          Thanks everyone for yor help and yes the cropping option does work to a certain extent.

                          (There always seems to be a small black line at the top of the video image)

                           

                          But its still an unnecessary cludge for something that should never have been implemented

                          in the first place.

                           

                          All the pro's I work with in my company all agree that the PAR change was silly.

                          (I find it amusing that all the other software vendors that I use have not implemented this)

                           

                          All of my clients including companies such as Pepsico have no interest in HD pe say

                          or bluray.

                          They totally rely on us to provide either DVD disks or online video files which are

                          usually 1280 X 720.

                          Not a single person is concerned about correct PAR's , etc but they are

                          concerned about the aesthetic look of the video and will ask why they can see black bars.

                          Because they view the DVD material on 1280 X 1024 PC monitors they can see this.

                           

                          All clients generally care about are aesthetics they don't want to know or understand about any technical issues

                          you may be having and thats a fact.

                           

                          At the end of the day Adobe will not even offer the old PAR as a choice.

                          I'm not the only person who has questioned this by the way, just do a search.

                           

                          This has not really been answered even though some of you have attempted to give solutions

                          and I thank you for that. For now I will just use the slightly long winded methods of utilising other

                          software for completing the conversion process.

                           

                          Thanks again.

                          • 11. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            But its still an unnecessary cludge for something that should never have been implemented

                            in the first place.

                             

                            All the pro's I work with in my company all agree that the PAR change was silly.

                            (I find it amusing that all the other software vendors that I use have not implemented this)

                             

                            For your  information, Edius, Avid and Vegas all use the same PAR as Premiere does now. Adobe was the last player to correct this mistake they made in the past, when Edius and Vegas has the correct PAR from the beginning.

                             

                            In the past when Audition and Soundbooth did not even exist, you got into real problems when using PR and Sonic Foundry (before Sony took it over) with the incorrect PAR that Adobe was using. If you can say anything about Adobe, it is that they were very late to correct a faulty PAR. Luckily they did some time ago and now all the major NLE players are using the same PAR all over.

                             

                            Finally, DVD should be played from a settop DVD player on a TV, not from a computer on a computer monitor, that is where the square pixel 1280 x 720 material should be used.

                             

                            I find your approach similar to someone who has learned to drive a car in the UK, driving on the left and who moves to the continent but refuses to adjust his driving habits, although he ought to know it is wrong to continue driving on the left side, instead of on the right side.

                             

                            Or consider the situation you have a stain on your carpet since 5 years and it needs to be replaced. You are looking for a new carpet with a similar stain on it. Persistent, but wise?

                            • 12. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              Adobe was the last player to correct this mistake they made in the past, when Edius and Vegas has the correct PAR from the beginning.

                               

                              Well now, let's get the terminology straight.  The current PAR is the "wrong" one in that it's a hold over from the days of analog where the entire 720 raster was not used.  It's the one used by the BBC and other professionals.  Adobe changed to the wrong PAR to be in line with everyone else, who was also using the wrong PAR.

                               

                              The "correct" par, using the entire 720 raster which is not only feasible but desirable in the digital realm, would be 1.188.  No one uses the correct PAR.

                               

                              Carpet Stain's frustration is understandable.  Everyone is doing it wrong, including Adobe, and as a result we have a less than ideal situation when downconverting HD to SD, which would not exist if everyone were doing it right.

                              • 13. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                Maybe you ought to visit the BBC site and read up on this. That will convince everyone, except of course obstinate UK drivers on the continent, that the BBC has got it right and that has been the accepted way for ages.

                                 

                                It's the one used by the BBC and other professionals.

                                 

                                Now if we exclude professionals, that leaves us with amateurs and they are ostensibly the only ones having trouble with this approach.

                                • 14. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                  > Adobe was the last player to correct this mistake they made in the past

                                   

                                  Actually, Apple and the Foundry made the change after us. Final Cut Pro fixed it in the 7.0.1 bug-fix update (but they didn't document it), and Nuke fixed it with a bug-fix update and described the change in their release notes. We weren't the first or the last. We were the loudest, though, because we really wanted to make sure that people saw the change and understood it:

                                  http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2009/07/pixel-aspect-ratios-in-after-e.html

                                  • 15. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    Maybe you ought to visit the BBC site and read up on this.

                                     

                                    I did.  The current PAR is based on the Clean Aperture of 704 pixels.  This was done because analog broadcasters did not use the entire Production Aperture of 720 pixels.  For analog, it made sense.  In the digital world, where you can and should use the entire 720 raster, it's less than workable.

                                    • 16. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      In the analog world the width was 768, not 720.

                                      • 17. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                                        Carpet Stain Level 1

                                        Harm Millaard wrote:

                                         

                                        Maybe you ought to visit the BBC site and read up on this. That will convince everyone, except of course obstinate UK drivers on the continent, that the BBC has got it right and that has been the accepted way for ages.

                                         

                                        It's the one used by the BBC and other professionals.

                                         

                                        Now if we exclude professionals, that leaves us with amateurs and they are ostensibly the only ones having trouble with this approach.

                                        [snip]

                                         

                                        Also regardless of the argument for the so called correct PAR.

                                        Its not pretty and in this age of "full raster digital video" its not really necessary is it.

                                         

                                        My argument was and always has been that it was not necessary for Adobe to change this.

                                        There are fundamentally more pressing aspects of software video editing that perhaps they should concentrate on

                                        then some irrelevant technical geeks masturbation anomaly.

                                         

                                        Also thankyou Jim Simon for providing a sensible argument.

                                        • 18. Re: Aspect Ratio for DV Video
                                          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                          I just deleted a personal attack from the previous post.

                                           

                                          If I see another personal attack, I will delete the entire post containing it.