18 Replies Latest reply on Dec 5, 2011 5:51 AM by the_wine_snob

    Continuous Timeline Rendering Required

    Robert/OZ Level 1

      This is really bugging me now,

       

      I have recently changed from another editing program to PRE10, fully owned, not trial.

       

      I import HD video 1280x720p and have preferences correctly set

      Camera: Sanyo HD 1010

      I normally shoot in 60 fps mode, for stability reasons when panning

      As soon as I drag a clip into the timeline, the red bar appears and the clip cannot be played, without stalling, unless I render the clip in the timeline, as soon as I add an effect to the clip, the red bar appears and again I have to render, then each time I try to fine tune the effect, again I have to render to view the result, now for a 35 second clip, each render can take almost 4 mins to complete, so the total time to complete this one 35 second clip is 16 mins. so just how long is it going to take to create a 40 min video.

       

      I then created a new project, this time using HD 1280x720p 30fps

      This time there is no red bar when first dragged to the timeline, but again, apply an effect and rendering is required before it can be viewed, the rendering time for 30fps is reduced to 1min 57 sec for a 32 second long clip, therefore to complete this clip with a fine tuned effect is almost 8 mins.

       

      Surely this cannot be considered normal for a video editing program

       

      Using my other editing program and using the same clips and equivalent effects, the same result can be achieved in less than 90 seconds using either 30 fps or 60 fps video

       

      Maybe I am doing something wrong, I sincerely hope so, any advice would be greatly appreciated

       

      Intel i7 930 Win 7 64 bit

      Radeon HD 5770 driver version 11.11

      16 Gb Ram

      2 TB 7200rpm Sata HD

       

      Robert

        • 1. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          If your video specs match your project specs, you will not need to render your timeline -- until you add effects or transitions to it.

           

          So it sounds as though the program is behaving exactly as it should behave, Robert.

           

          And this would be true with any video editing program. The main difference is that Premiere Elements makes you more aware of it by indicating segments that need to be rendered with a red line. Many other programs only indicate the need to render by slowing performance and playback.

          • 2. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
            Nash_John Level 3

            Also Premiere Elements render to a better quality of the preview, and takes some extra time.

            You can render from time to time, after applying some effects and doing some editing, rendering the whole timeline after each little editing you do is not necessary.

             

            If you want to see how has applying a effect or any other thing has effected your clip, you can do so by rendering a small portion by setting the work area bar to a small portion and then rendering only that small portion.

             

            After editing and saving for quite some time, you can choose to render the whole timeline.

            • 3. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
              Robert/OZ Level 1

              Steve wrote,

               

              'If your video specs match your project specs, you will not need to render your timeline-until you add effects or transitions to it'

               

              If that were true then I would not have an issue, if I place 20, 30second clips 1280x720p 60fps in the timeline, the red bar immediately appears, the clips cannot be viewed without stalling or  stopping unless the clip is rendered first, meaning that before I can even view the clips it is necessary to render and as each clip takes up to 4 mins, that's over an hour in which I am unable to do anything, if I then add an effect, for example NewBlue Stabilizer to one of these 30 second clips, it then takes 16 mins to render that one clip, admitted using  the PRE10 stabilizer is a lot faster than NewBlue to render, but then this has to be repeated each time you tweak the effect to get it right.

              With 30fps video, I agree the clips can be viewed without the need to render prior to an effect or transition being applied and rendering 30 fps is a lot faster, however I am finding that even with 30fps the red bar appears as soon as any effect or transition is applied, so to view that edited clip means rendering it first and if you don't like that effect then you have to repeat the process again.

              I should point out that this computer has no garbage programs installed, it is set up purely for video editing, and absolutely everything has all the latest updates and drivers.

               

              With my other NLE, I won't mention it's name because some forums have issues with naming competitor products, there is no need to continuously render, effects, transitions and titles can be applied before the need to render, the main advantage of PRE10 is the ability to render a clip in the timeline, without the need to render the whole project, whereas with my other NLE, once it becomes obvious that rendering is required, then it is neccessary to produce the whole project, then bring it back as a new project to add to it.

               

              The result is that what I can complete In PRE10 in a 4 hour period, can be completed in less than 1 hour with my other NLE to achieve the same result

              • 4. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                We have no issues with your mentioning other brands of software here, Robert. We're not brand-centric by any means on this forum. Our main concern is that people go with the product that best fits their workflow.

                • 5. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                  nealeh Level 5

                  Robert/OZ wrote:

                   

                  Steve wrote,

                   

                  'If your video specs match your project specs, you will not need to render your timeline-until you add effects or transitions to it'

                   

                  If that were true then I would not have an issue, if I place 20, 30second clips 1280x720p 60fps in the timeline, the red bar immediately appears,

                   

                  If the red bar appears immediately then your project settings do not match the clip. When project settings are correct there won't be any lines (red or green) above the clips until you add an effect or transition.

                   

                  Can you analyse your clip with GSpot or MediaInfo and post a screenshot here.

                   

                   

                  Cheers,
                  --
                  Neale
                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                  • 6. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                    Robert/OZ Level 1

                    Steve, I changed to PRE10 because Elements is a relatively stable program compared with others on the market and when PRE10 was released with the 64 bit capability, it was natural to assume that this would make it a much faster program than PRE9 32 bit which I have on my laptop and in some respects it is.

                    Maybe I am trying too hard testing the capabilities of PRE10, finding it's weak spots and rendering seems to be one of them, there are many attributes of PRE10 that I like and I would prefer to use PRE10, prehaps I should try changing the format of my videos and try again. I have no issue with miniDV tapes of which I have many, probably because they are not so resource hungry as HD

                    • 7. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                      Robert/OZ Level 1

                      Hi Neale,

                       

                      Screen shots attached,

                       

                      Am I using the correct settingsMediaInfo.jpgProject Settings.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                        nealeh Level 5

                        Looks to be the right settings. If it's not personal do you want to upload the file to a file sharing site and I'll take a look at it later today to see if I get the same problems on my (compared to yours) antique PC.

                         

                        Private Message me with the details if you want to go that route. It's just after midnight here so I'm off to bed now but can look at it later.

                         

                        Cheers,
                        --
                        Neale
                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                          Ted Smith Level 3

                          I was about to purchase PE10 unitl I read your post

                           

                          Please tell me the name of the "other" program that you claim runs 4 times faster!

                          • 10. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                            Robert/OZ Level 1

                            Thanks for the offer Neale, but I think I have resolved the first issue of rendering required as soon as the clip is placed in the timeline.

                             

                            I use an HD video Splitter to remove unwanted portions of clips prior to importing into PRE10, this gets rid of all the garbage I don't want and just leaves me with the section I do want. Now this has never been an issue before with any other NLE, but it would appear that PRE10 does have an issue with this by not treating it as a raw clip. It took a while to work that out, only by importing the clips again off the camera  and then importing the original did it become apparent what the problem was. So, that part of the issue is resolved, just annoying that it is neccessary to render BEFORE you can view an added effect, but I suppose I can live with that as most clips will not require effects.

                            My next question then, does PRE10 have the ability to save split clips as seperate clips, that can be used outside of PRE10, or is it still neccessary to use a video splitter to be able to use in other programs.

                             

                            Robert

                            • 11. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                              Robert/OZ Level 1

                              Hi Ted,

                               

                              I do not believe that this forum is the place to advertise a competitors program

                              • 12. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                Please do.

                                 

                                We are not brand-centric on this forum. We just want to see people find the best product for their particular workflow.

                                 

                                Besides, I'd like to know four products that edit this video format more efficiently than Premiere Elements. Not including MovieMaker or iMovie, of course.

                                • 13. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                                  nealeh Level 5

                                  Use the Work Area Bar to limit the portion you want to export.

                                   

                                  How can I use footage from one project in another?

                                  WAB - Work Area Bar - What's That?

                                   

                                  Cheers,
                                  --
                                  Neale
                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                  • 15. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                                    Ted Smith Level 3

                                    No you really have me worried!

                                    Are you saying that in PE10 you have to "pre clip" video clips before importing them?

                                     

                                    EVERY shot I take, I always start the camera a few seconds before the material I want and stop it a few seconds after the wanted action ceases.

                                    For instance I start it then say the equivalent of "start takling when you are ready" which can be sometimes up to 10 seconds later.

                                    I find this gives much better natural response from "actors" than the old Ready! Action! when film footage was costly.

                                     

                                    It also is valuable when editing the audio because many extraneous sounds can be left in or excluded without cutting abruptly in the middle of the actual sound. A background sound from a distance often is more natural to remain throughout the following shot rather than change is say you cut to a closeup.

                                     

                                    If taking a lot of shots from various angles, I just leave the camera running.

                                     

                                    Therefore I could not possibly use PE10 if what you say is the case.

                                    • 16. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Ted,

                                       

                                      I think that there might be some confusion - at least I hope so, as PrE 10 should not have any issues with Trimming a Video Clip.

                                       

                                      Your stated method of beginning the shot BEFORE the necessary action, or dialog, and then continuing shooting, AFTER the necessary action, or dialog is complete, is the way that it should be done. Hollywood learned that almost 100 years ago, with D W Griffith, and they still do just as you describe. That provides the editor with Handles, which are necessary Frames before and/or after necessary action, or dialog, to allow for Transitions.

                                       

                                      Whether one does the Trimming in the Source Monitor for each Clip (most common place to Trim - setting the In & Out Points of a Clip), or they do it in the Timeline, things should be the same - the In & Out Points of the Clip are set to exclude all but the necessary Handles, so that there is material for Handles for Transitions.

                                       

                                      I think that something else is being discussed, but stand ready to be corrected, if something major has changed.

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 17. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                                        Robert/OZ Level 1

                                        Ted,

                                         

                                        No, I'm not saying that PRE10 has any issue trimming videos, what I was trying to explain, is that my previous NEL did not have the capacity to save a trimmed clip, because the original was always saved and  the project file only contained the edited instructions. That's why I used an HD Video Splitter to be able to cut out only the section of video that I wanted to keep.

                                         

                                        After Neale explained how to save a split clip I will no longer need to use a video splitter when using PRE10

                                         

                                        Sorry if my earlier post caused any confusion

                                         

                                        Robert

                                        • 18. Re: Continuous Timeline Rendering Required
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Robert,

                                           

                                          Thank you for that clarification. That is what I thought you were speaking of. I did not want Ted to be pulling out hair!

                                           

                                          Good luck, and happy editing,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                           

                                          PS - HDVSplit is a great Capture utility, and many users feel that it is what Adobe should have used for their Capture module.