29 Replies Latest reply on Dec 2, 2011 7:50 AM by Christopher_Engelhardt

    Need some quick help - fairly urgent!

    SimonPerkins90

      I've just taken over a new job and have been the task of finishing the new brochure for Christmas, there's not a lot to do but a lot of the measurements need changing

       

      This is the layout I'm dealing with..

       

      Untitled.png

       

      All the boxes have been made in Illustrator

       

      The text has been done in In'Design and it seems every piece of text is it's own box if that makes sense

       

      My question is, if I select the whole specification box - copy, paste it into Adobe Illustrator and change the text there, then paste the edited box back into In-Design, will I lose quality when it gets printed?

       

      I'm worried if I do it this way it may come out blurred? Or am I just worrying about nothing?

        • 1. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          You can’t do that. Copy/paste of text from Illy to ID will result in the text being converted to outlines.

           

           

           

          BTW, what do you mean the boxes were made in Illy?

           

           

           

          The whole thing looks like a table and would be very easy to create in ID.

           

           

           

          Bob

          • 2. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
            SimonPerkins90 Level 1

            Okay!

             

            Each section of that table was made in Illustrator from what I understand and the text has been inserted in ID

             

            I've never used ID before so it's all very confusing to try and change a simple bit of text!

             

            Each text/letter appears to have it's own box..

             

            Like this for example..

             

            2.png

            • 4. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

              I’m going with “good lord”

               

               

               

              I don’t even know where to tell the OP to start but being a newbie I will pass along my two recommendations:

               

               

               

              1.       Sandee Cohen’s Visual Quick Start Guide: http://amzn.to/tC7imT

               

              2.       Lynda.com videos. This link will get you a free one week trial: http://bit.ly/fcGpiI

               

              Bob

              • 5. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                Christopher_Engelhardt

                I agree John this could be bad. Simon what do you have to change on the brochure? In detail please.

                • 6. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                  Yeah, so Simon, to be more explicit:

                    This is not normally how this document should be set up in InDesign.

                  Normally your entire table should be in one text frame. Inside the frame you would have an InDesign table of so-many rows by so-many columns. And in some cases you would have groups of cells merged together, e.g. your 7mm overlap would be 6 horizontal cells merged together.

                   

                  But that's clearly not how this is set up.

                  Trying to convert this so it is "right" is probably a lot of effort that's not worth the bother (though we could help with scripting).

                  Probably the best is to just Make Do and get it over with, recognizing that this table is never going to meet the best practice for how to do it in InDesign.

                   

                  That being said, what's your real goal? If you just want to edit the boxes independly of the text, try putting the boxes on their own layer that you can hide and show independently, that way it's easier to get the boxes over to Illustrator if you need to tweak them there (but do you really? Why?).

                   

                  If you have significant edits to the box configuration, rather than the text, it might just be easier to start over from scratch and do it properly.

                   

                  Oof.

                  • 7. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                    I think it would also help to know if those “boxes” were placed as an AI file or copy/pasted from Illy into ID.

                     

                     

                     

                    If it’s the copy/paste thing then you have native ID objects there to work with.

                     

                     

                     

                    I do not envy you this task. The person who set this up didn’t do a proper job of it and you’re left, without proper training or resources” to fix a real mess.

                     

                     

                     

                    I hope you have an understanding boss.

                     

                     

                     

                    Bob

                    • 8. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      It would almost certainly be faster to abandon these tables and start over building them correcly in ID to start with. There's nothing there that can't be done in ID (including the white space between the boxes, which can be empty rows and columns, sized appropriately) and larger blocks that would be merged cells.

                      • 9. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                        SimonPerkins90 Level 1

                        I thought it shouldnt be this complicated..

                         

                        Right all I actually need to do is edit the text within the tables, I dont need to change the design of the 'tables' purely the text

                         

                        Like I said, completely new to using this system, I assumed I could just click the text and make ammendments but I can't do that

                         

                        I don't really have time to make new 'tables' as there's 49 pages and I've only 3 weeks.. plus other things to do as well!

                         

                        Is there a way to leave the tables as there, which I assume aren't the best from the replies, and just edit the text?

                        • 10. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                          Christopher_Engelhardt Level 1

                          Why can't you just change the text in InDesign? There would be no rebuilding anything.

                          • 11. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                            SimonPerkins90 Level 1

                            I can't actually Edit the text that's already there

                             

                            So how would I enter the information I need and allign it all as it looks currently

                             

                            So it's all the same distance from the top and bottom of each cell etc.

                            • 12. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                              Christopher_Engelhardt Level 1

                              Do you have the selector tool on or the text tool. This would explain alot about your problem of not being able to edit the text.

                              • 13. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                Christopher,

                                 

                                If you look closely at the screen shot above you'll see a couple of "text" frames selected and it's clear that they are not really text at all, but actually uneditable outlines. This file is an absolute mess.

                                 

                                Simon,

                                 

                                You REALLY need to make a new table in ID. You can set cell insets and alignments to get your text consistently positioned. Trying to fix what you have now is is pretty much an exercise in futility and will just maintain the frustration for next time.

                                • 14. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                  MT.Freelance Level 4

                                  Sometimes, it is easier to start over with a clean slate. Editing a table once created can be much easier than fighting a mess like what you have inherited. However, if you are new to the program as well as the document, then you likely do not have the time to learn as you go and meet your deadline.

                                   

                                  Do you have the original illustrator artwork? From the screenshots, this looks like something your predecessor laid out in illustrator and then copied into InDesign. Some text is outlined. Some is fragmented. Etc. If so, it may be easier to edit the text in the AI file and then place the art into InDesign.

                                   

                                  Failing that, you can go though the document and replace the multiple imported (and fragmented) text frames with a single text frame filled with your edited text where needed. I suggest you work with layers. Lock the current design layer and add a new layer for text. Use the text tool to lay new text frames in the correct positions for your text that needs edits. You can later unlock the original layer and delete the old text that is not needed.

                                   

                                  The results will be as cluster of individual text frames, but you have that already.

                                   

                                  HTH

                                   

                                  -mt

                                  • 15. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    Email is coming in out of order today so this is very disjointed.

                                     

                                    Simon, you don't actually HAVE any text there to edit, if the screen shot is an indication of the whole table. It will take you longer to to make new text frames and position them on top of what you have than to do the job right.

                                    • 16. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                      BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                      Another thing that could cause it (and it’s very scary) is if it was copy/pasted from Illustrator. That would convert it all to outlines.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Bob

                                      • 17. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                        SimonPerkins90 Level 1

                                        Yes, it certainly seems like the text isn't there and it looks very like it's been copy and pasted from Illy

                                         

                                        Right, in ID, how is it possible for me to make an identical table to this one? Including the white line breaks as it's a request to be on the brochure!

                                         

                                        Lucky I have ID at home, so a lot of work can be done out of hours should I need to!

                                        • 18. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          SimonPerkins90 wrote:

                                          Right, in ID, how is it possible for me to make an identical table to this one? Including the white line breaks as it's a request to be on the brochure!

                                          As I mentioned above in my first response, you can recreate the look of this table completely, including the white lines by leaving narrow blank columns and rows between the cells you need to use for data.

                                          • 19. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                            SimonPerkins90 Level 1

                                            Okay, so this would probably be a much quicker fix?

                                             

                                            How do I actually include a table etc.?

                                             

                                            I've tried quickly to just insert table and it doesnt allow me to click the function?

                                            • 20. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                              MT.Freelance Level 4

                                              Yes, you can set the table fills to match the colors used. You can set the row and column strokes to match the existing breaks. You can set the text attributes to center the text. You can set the cell padding to position the text. You can merge and split cells.

                                               

                                              Use the Table panel, or control panel in conjunction with the Swatches, Character and Paragraph panels to help setup your tables. Also, there is a menu labeled Table that has the controls. Use it and learn the keyboard shortcuts to the commands to help speed things up.

                                               

                                              Here is a screenshot of a mockup I threw together of a table based on your screenshots.This took a few minutes and some typeing. With a bit more time, a table style could be laid out that automates a great deal of this.

                                               

                                              Screen shot 2011-11-29 at 10.42.55 AM.png

                                               

                                               

                                              Pick up a copy of Sandee Cohen's Visual Quickstart Guide to InDesign for your version. That is an invaluable reference for the beginner.

                                              When you have time, check out various online resources, such as Michal Murphy's indesigner blog and InDesign Secrets websites (google them).

                                              • 21. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                MT.Freelance Level 4

                                                To insert a table 101:

                                                 

                                                1. On the page, draw a text frame usign the text tool.

                                                2. With the cursor active in the new text frame, use the Table Menu, and select Insert Table...

                                                3. Define the number of rows, columns, header and footer rows (this can be edited later)

                                                 

                                                Tables must reside within a text frame.

                                                • 22. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                  SimonPerkins90 Level 1

                                                  Okay thank you, I will attempt to have a base frame down tonight and start prefecting it by the time I'm back in tomorrow!

                                                   

                                                  Hopefully it's not too difficult and easy to pick up!

                                                   

                                                  Really appreciate all your help and comments so far guys!

                                                  • 23. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                                                    I can't actually Edit the text that's already there

                                                    A couple of other thoughts:

                                                     

                                                    Is it possible that there is an Illustrator file floating around that contains these tables before they were copy-and-pasted into InDesign? Then you could edit the text in those files and re-insert into ID.

                                                     

                                                    How many changes do you really have to make? You could stop worrying about editing the outlined text, and just select the text object, delete it, and stick a new text frame on top of it...

                                                    • 24. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                      Christopher_Engelhardt Level 1

                                                      Okay I see what you mean, that text is basicly being treated as an image. Wow what a mess, why did somebody copy the text from IIIy to ID in the first place. I would do what John said and see if there is an IIIy file floating around and if not then comence with recreating the file.

                                                      • 25. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                        rajsiva

                                                        Only best think better go to indesign your will get good restult

                                                        • 26. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                          There certainly are viable "quick fix" solutions proposed here, and if the dealine is looming and this file never needs to be touched again I might be tempted, but they are only postponing the pain for a file that needs periodic updates, and I wouldn't waste effort on them, myself, when that time can be put toward a proper rebuild now if that's the ultimate goal.

                                                          • 27. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                            SimonPerkins90 Level 1

                                                            I couldn't find an Illy file in the end and have ended up creating tables in ID to replicate what was already there!

                                                             

                                                            Didn't take very long and I guess if I didn't do it now, I'd come across the same situation next time!

                                                             

                                                            Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:48:07 -0700

                                                            From: forums@adobe.com

                                                            To: simonperkins@live.com

                                                            Subject: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                                  

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!

                                                             

                                                             

                                                                created by Peter Spier in InDesign - View the full discussion

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            There certainly are viable "quick fix" solutions proposed here, and if the dealine is looming and this file never needs to be touched again I might be tempted, but they are only postponing the pain for a file that needs periodic updates, and I wouldn't waste effort on them, myself, when that time can be put toward a proper rebuild now if that's the ultimate goal.

                                                             

                                                             

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                                                            • 28. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                              MT.Freelance Level 4

                                                              You will thank yourself in the future. Or, whomever inherits it from you

                                                              will.

                                                              A properly designed file is much easier to edit and maintain than the mess

                                                              you were handed.

                                                              • 29. Re: Need some quick help - fairly urgent!
                                                                Christopher_Engelhardt Level 1

                                                                So true, I'll take an INDD over an Illy any day.