16 Replies Latest reply on Jan 19, 2012 4:05 PM by the_wine_snob

    Dolby Digital 5.1

    Airborne951

      Hi,

           I have movie clips that were shot with a Sony HD handycam in Dolby 5.1 audio. Will I be able with Adobe Element 10 to output this to a blu-ray in Dolby Digital 5.1 audio?

       

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Yes, if your video is AVCHD and you select the AVCHD 5.1 settings when you set up your project.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
            Airborne951 Level 1

            Hi,

                 OK and thanks for the quick answer.

            • 3. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Steve,

               

              Maybe I am not reading the answer correctly, or maybe something has been added in PrE 10, of which I was was unaware. Maybe you can clear things up for me.

               

              The Project Preset for for DD 5.1 SS Audio WAS just for Import of DD 5.1 SS Audio Streams, and all Export/Share was to DD (AC3) stereo, regardless of the Import Audio Stream format, and channel structure. PrE did not have the capability to Encode into DD 5.1 SS AC3. Has that changed, with PrE 10?

               

              Even PrPro requires the extra Minnetonka Audio SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in (around US $300 additional) to output DD 5.1 SS. Otherwise, PrPro (and earlier versions of PrE) would mix-down 5.1 SS Audio Streams to DD stereo Audio Streams.

               

              Thanks for that clarification.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                Airborne951 Level 1

                I just ordered PrE 10.0, I hope it is supported.

                • 5. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                  Airborne951 Level 1

                  Hi,

                        So is it supported or not?

                   

                  Thanks.

                  • 6. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                    As I said in the first post. 5.1 audio is supported if you set up your project to receive it.

                     

                    However, you can not output 5.1 audio from Premiere Elements.

                    • 7. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                      Airborne951 Level 1

                      Hi,

                           well now I am confused, my original question was this:

                       

                      I have movie clips that were shot with a Sony HD handycam in Dolby 5.1 audio. Will I be able with Adobe Element 10 to output this to a blu-ray in Dolby Digital 5.1 audio?

                       

                      And your original answer was this:

                       

                      Yes, if your video is AVCHD and you select the AVCHD 5.1 settings when you set up your project.

                       

                      So now you are telling me otherwise, is that it?

                      • 8. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                        I'm not sure what you're not getting Airborne.

                         

                        Yes, you can load video with 5.1 audio in Premiere Elements.

                         

                        However, Premiere Elements can not OUTPUT video with 5.1, including DVDs and BluRay discs. The only option for output is stereo.

                        • 9. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Airborne,

                           

                          The output was the part of the question, that I needed clarification on too. I knew that through PrE 9, the output would be a 2-channel (stereo) mixdown, and Steve verified that PrE 10 was no different, regarding the output (Export/Share). However, as it has been for a few versions, PrE can easily Import DD 5.1 SS for editing. It is the Encoding to DD 5.1 SS, that is the limitation.

                           

                          Now, there are ways around that, but then one must leave PrE to do the final output, and to work effective with DD 5.1 SS, that would be pretty early in the editing process. Minnetonka Audio offers a stand-alone DD 5.1 SS Encoder, to get the Audio Stream in DD 5.1 SS AC3.

                           

                          The reason that one needs to leave PrE early is that it does not offer full editing in DD 5.1 SS, like PrPro does. Instead, one would use a program, like Adobe Audtion, with Multi-track editing. It can output to six discrete Audio Streams, each in a separate 1-channel file. One would then use a stand-alone Encoder to get all six into a DD AC3 file.

                           

                          On a sidenote: recording good 5.1 SS Audio is really tough. Many cameras that allow it, have mics placed very close together, but just pointing in different directions, while some do processing of a 2-channel Audio Stream, to create a faux 5.1 SS. In the first case, those multiple mics usually pick up a lot of Audio, that one will find not very usable, such as the camera operator's clothes rubbing together. To record true 5.1 SS, one needs 5 well-placed mics (the LFE channel is usually not recorded on location, but separated out, or added, in studio), The mics will be very narrow band, and run through a multi-channel mixer, so that the feed from each can be adjusted, easily. The result will be 5 discrete Audio Streams, one in each of 5 separate Audio files. The sound persons involved will need to be well-versed in 5.1 SS recording, and then the editor will need to be trained, as well. It is not as easy as just having a bunch of mics, pointed in different directions. It is the domain of skilled professionals, with proper and specialized equipment.

                           

                          Offering DD 5.1 SS in-camera is more of a marketing tool, IMHO, and most users of such cameras actually fight the 5.1 SS, giving up on it, after just a bit.

                           

                          Also, editing 5.1 SS is an art, even with the proper software, such as PrPro w/ the optional Minnetonka Audio SurCode DD 5.1 SS Encoder plug-in. There are so many considerations, beyond just stereo Audio.

                           

                          If you are really determined to edit 5.1 SS, and output to DD 5.1 SS for DVD's, or BD's, I have several books that will prove useful.

                           

                          I do most Projects in DD 5.1 SS, with PrPro and the SurCode Encoder plug-in. Most are really faux 5.1 SS, that I create in the studio, though some do start with 5 discrete Audio files, recorded by a professional sound crew, and furnished to me as separate WAV files. These Projects are edited in 5.1 SS, and then I output to DD 5.1 SS AC3's (one of the two formats, that can be used as the Primary Audio Source in DVD/BD)*. Often, the client will want DTS (cannot be Primary, and must be Supplemental Audio only). That (like DD Pro-Logic, etc.) must also be output with a separate Encoder (I use the SurCode DTS Encoder, which is a stand-alone, and not plug-in, like their DD 5.1 SS), and I also have to work on the Audio in Audition (in my workflow), outputting to six discrete Audio files, before Encoding. This is a multi-step, involved workflow, but produces great results.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                           

                          * In NTSC DVD, only PCM/WAV, or DD AC3 can be used for the Primary Audio Stream, where with PAL, MPEG Audio is optional, though really falling out of favor. Besides those Primary Audio Streams, many others can be used on DVD, but MUST be Supplemental, and are accessed only via a Menu, or from the remote's Audio button.

                          • 10. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                            edgarfoto

                            @ Bill Hunt: Very interesting, to read this informative reply. Thank you very much.

                             

                            I tried a long time to get 5.1 Sound out of my premiere pro sequence via Media Encoder and Encore. No way. In the timeline it's still all in 5.1, but export always comes as mixdown. And this mixdown is by far worse than the original 5.1 sound, at least for my ears. A big difference.

                             

                            Now, just to make sure (because it's difficult to believe): The 1700 $ professional Software "production premium" does not provide 5.1 sound in the output (without a 299 $ plugin) ??

                             

                            If it doesn't (at least that's what I understood and experienced), did anyone find a work around? I made it to get 5.1 wave files via Audition and convert them to AC3. Not comfortable, but it is possible. But than I have to combine the finished video (1080 50i and p) again with this AC3 file which I couldn't until now.

                            Ed

                            • 11. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Ed,

                               

                              You are correct. PrPro (not even in the Master Collection Suite) is capable of Exporting to DD 5.1 SS. One must add the Minnetonka Audio SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in (now about US $300 additional), or another Encoder.Going back some years, Minnetonka Audio offered a "special" price, if one bought the SurCode plug-in from within PrPro, and the price was ~US $250. Back with PrPro 2.0, I inquired about a "volume license" from Minnetonka Audio, as I already had one license, but wanted a second, so I could Export to DD 5.1 SS AC3 from either of my computers. They "opened their books," and share what they paid to Dolby Labs for the license to use the code in their plug-in. Wow, that old US $250 was almost a "deal." I bought the second copy, and have never regretted it. Yes, I would have loved to get the second license for much less, and maybe bought one of the Reg Giant Software Effects with the difference, but still, I have never regretted making that purchase.

                               

                              Now, there are some companies, that offer a version of 5.1 SS, but it is NOT Dolby Labs certified, so no Dolby logo can be printed on the DVD's. Also, some of those do not work very well, at all. Then, there is Sony, which, according to reports (never used it, so I do not know), offers full Dolby Digital certified 5.1 SS, from Vegas Pro, without needing any plug-ins. Not sure what the deal is there? Maybe others can educate me?

                               

                              I also picked up the Minnetonka Audio SurCode DTS Encoder, which is not a plug-in, costs US $300, but works well. The first client, needing DTS paid for that Encoder, so every Project afterwards - well the Encoder was paid for! It works great too, and if you have not listened carefully to DD 5.1 SS vs DTS, maybe do so. I like DTS (supplemental on DVD's) better.

                               

                              As for workflows skirting the SurCode Encoder, there was a thread, some years back in what was then the CS4 Forum, that outlined a way to do it. Now, some users did not have succes, and then, there is also the Dolby Digital Labs logo, etc., that could never be used. For the hobbyist, that is fine, but for any commercial production, it is not. I will try to find that article, so that you can compare it to your workflow. The poster was known as ______child, and I cannot recall the first few letters, maybe "terrachild?"

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                OK, here is Terrachild's TUTORIAL on "cheap, or free" 5.1 SS.

                                 

                                Like I mentioned, it worked for some, but not for all. YMMV

                                 

                                For legal reasons, I would NOT print Dolby Digital logo on the discs. That would be incorrect, and illegal.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                                  nealeh Level 5

                                  I haven't used it (I only bought it for the proDAD Mercalli stabilizer) but Corel VideoStudio Pro X4 includes 5:1 Surround Sound output. Here's the relevant pages from the manual (now why can't Adobe include a decent basic manual ?).

                                   

                                  1.png2.png3.png

                                  Cheers,
                                  --
                                  Neale
                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Interesting, and thanks for posting that info Neale.

                                     

                                    I had not seen the Corel product (wasn't that the old Ulead NLE?), but nice to know that one has an alternate.

                                     

                                    Others mention Sony Vegas (do not know if it's only the "Pro" version), for 5.1 SS, but I have never used any of the Sony products.

                                     

                                    Now, it also seems that Roxio gets mention, from time to time, when discussion on 5.1 SS comes up, but I cannot comment on that product either.

                                     

                                    Appreciated,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                                      nealeh Level 5

                                      Yes, I think you are right about it being Ulead at one time. I think Avid came into the mix somewhere as well. The product has some nice features - including selectable automatic use of proxy files for AVCHD, 5:1 Sound,  proDAD Mercalli image stabiliser plug-in (full version), SmartSound (same libraries as in PRE10), smart rendering, and something called Boris FX Graffiti for animated titles. It also includes a registration code for the full version of WinZip Pro. There are however a limited number of tracks in comparison to PRE (seven video, four audio, two title). I might mess around with it at some time to do a complete project but at the moment I just use it as a workflow step for stabilisation of shaky footage.

                                       

                                      Cheers,
                                      --
                                      Neale
                                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                      • 16. Re: Dolby Digital 5.1
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        As I recall, though it IS going back decades, first there was Adobe and Aldus. Aldus had, among other programs, PageMaker, FreeHand and PhotoStyler. Adobe bought PageMaker, and Macromedia (or whatever they were before) bought FreeHand, and PhotoStyler died, as Adobe had Photoshop. The team behind Photoshop, opened Ulead, and their first release was a simple image-editor, PhotoImpact. I still have several copies of two versions of that program, as they are great, quick JPEG viewers, and offer light editing capabilities. PhotoImpact also will Open some problem JPEG's, with bad headers, and will usually Save those as JPEG's, that Photoshop can then Open. Ulead released a Digital Video Studio, or similar name, plus a pretty neat 3D program, a few years later. I know that Corel raided Ulead, buying that 3D program, but hardly fully developed it. Do not know if it's still in the portfolio. I think that is what happened to Digital Video Studio, but it seems that Corel has continued development of it, like they have with the old Fractal Design Painter (a great "nautral media" paint program, with similarities to Photoshop, but with some important, and useful differences). Not sure if PhotoImpact is still around, or if it too, has been acquired from Ulead?

                                         

                                        As we've said in the past, these programs are but "tools," and often having the correct ones on hand, for a particular task, can be very, very useful. No one program can do everything, and perfectly, so having other tools available, can be very useful.

                                         

                                        I've got a few other NLE's, for certain tasks, but not the Corel program. I get promos for it, since I have registered copies of both Painter and WordPerfect, and somewhere, have Corel Draw, but have never upgraded it, nor installed it in years. Maybe next time they have a "special," I just might pick up a copy of Corel VideoStudio.

                                         

                                        Again, thanks for that info,

                                         

                                        Hunt