27 Replies Latest reply on Dec 2, 2011 11:11 AM by lasvideo

    Broadcast monitoring

    crandolph1234

      Hi

       

      I have recently been exploring Premier Pro as a future replacement for FCP.  So far I have been very impressed (CS5). I have run into an issue, that I can't seem to wrap my head around.  Maybe because of FCP this issue is stumping me.  I want to be able to use a JVC broadcast monitor for myself and clients.  I am using a Kona card and have downloaded the drivers for the software.  All is good when I use one of the presets.  What if I want to use a different setting?  Maybe I want my sequence to be ProRes, and I want to send it to the broadcast monitor.  No luck unless I use a preset which limits my choices to uncompressed and compress I frame.

       

      This also brings up a bigger issue in my head.  How does Premier handle the range of codecs.  For example in FCP you would set up a sequence with a specific frame size, frame rate and codec using the Kona card functions within FCP.  And all of these would be supported on the broadcast monitor.  I know I can set up any sequence I choose in Premier but wonder how the video preview happens and why the video won't go to the broadcast monitor.

       

      This is messing with me. Please help, if you have some positive feedback.

       

      Chris Randolph

        • 1. Re: Broadcast monitoring
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          With Premiere Pro, you need to use one of the vendor-supplied sequence presets to monitor out; this is different from what you're accustomed to in FCP.

           

          That said, Pr is a lot more flexible when it comes to this codec or that codec in a single sequence. All you need to do is pick the AJA preset that is closest to your intended delivery requirements (and you might be able to customize these), and go to work. Premiere Pro really doesn't care about the flavor and format of footage that you drop into a sequence--you're not tied to any one particular flavor. So long as you're using an AJA preset and (I believe) set your Player preference to the AJA Player (it should be in Preferences), you should be good to go. Things have gotten better in CS5.5 in this regard, too.

           

          Another user here by the name of Tom (lasvideo) has been really helpful to FCP switchers, particularly those with AJA hardware. He'll probably stop in and give you much more specific assistance.

          • 2. Re: Broadcast monitoring
            crandolph1234 Level 1

            Thanks for the feedback Collin.  I look forward to Toms input too.  What specifically has gotten better in 5.5?

            What I am running into is when I choose uncompressed the computer has trouble keeping up. Plus, the video preview renders are longer. When I choose compressed I am not satisfied with the quality.  Thats why I am wishing for more choices. I want to find the best quality at the lowest data rate for each particular project or sequence. Prores was great at that middle ground between quality and data rate.I have tried customizing the AJA presets but once I choose "desktop" the option for broadcast monitor is eliminated.

             

            CR

            • 3. Re: Broadcast monitoring
              joe bloe premiere Level 5

              Insert extended rant regarding Premiere's external monitoring inadequacies here.

              • 4. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                zikade Level 2

                Hi,

                 

                I recently changed from FCP to CS5.5 and had much the same problems. Thankfully I do have a Blackmagic Card, which actually comes with a lot of settings.

                One thing you might look into is actually creating a new setting for a sequence. I don't know about AJA, but here I can tune the whole thing quite a bit while still having my video out via HD-SDI on my preview display.

                • 5. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                  Jim Curtis Level 3

                  I usually start with an uncompressed AJA preset, then use Sequence Settings to change the Preview format to ProRes 422.  That seems to work OK.  You can save your own preset for this.

                   

                  Still, the performance with an AJA LHi in Pr is less than stellar.  For one thing, Pr can't handle using the video and audio out from the AJA card.  It works better to use another audio output when using AJA Video out.  I also have spotty audio playback when using an AJA preset; meaning: some timest the audio works, some times not.  Some times it's choppy, and some times it's smooth as it ought to be. 

                   

                  I think (guess) a lot of the problems are the AJA drivers for Pr.  The card works more or less great with FCP7, with fewer issues and much less lag and choppiness.  Pr seems very reliable in Desktop mode.

                   

                  Another thing I do is work in a desktop setting (native mode: Drag all footage to a new sequence) for most of my off-lining.  Then, when I'm ready to do final audio and grading, I copy and paste my sequence into an AJA Preset.  Since you can't copy track-based audio effects, or save presets (Please fix this, Adobe.), I wait until I'm in an AJA Seq to do my audio.

                  • 6. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                    lasvideo Level 4

                    Hi crandolph1234. Colins overview is a good summation .I also agree with Jims approach to setting things up.

                     

                    1.UNDER SEQUENCE PRESETS TAB -Select an AJA uncompressed sequence that matches your frame rate

                     

                    2. UNDER SETTINGS TAB - Select setting to suite your preferences.

                        a. Preview File Format - 1920 29.97 10 bit uncompressed (rather than MPEG I Frame)

                        b. Codec - I like Prores. Its for preview only, but is a good image to QC on the reference monitor

                     

                    3.PLAYBACK SETTINGS BUTTON (or AJA Control Panel - same controls) - With new drivers (10.1 AJA , 9.1 AJA Adobe Plugins) Set quality to Low and check Aggressive Cache if performance is lacking)

                     

                    When you export your sequence is when you really choose the details of what you want it to be. Its like making XMAS cookies, the batter is whatever you want, but the mold (export) is where the final results are selected. And no I dont make Xmas cookies

                     

                    I suggest going with a professional codec like Prores or DNxHD as your master file, then make other format choices from that file (like h.264 for web,etc.)

                     

                    I hope this helps. Good luck!

                     

                    Tom Daigon

                    Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor

                    www.hdshotsandcuts.com

                    Mac Pro 3,1

                    2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon

                    10.6.8

                    Nvidia Quadro 4000

                    24 gigs ram

                    Kona 3

                    Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid

                    • 7. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      What if I want to use a different setting?

                       

                      An excellent point.  The time for these limitations has come to and end.  Please help make it happen by adding your voice below...

                       

                      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/900221?tstart=0

                      • 8. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                        lasvideo Level 4

                        What do you exactly mean by different setting? Under the setting tab there are a large variety of codec choices.

                        • 9. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                          crandolph1234 Level 1

                          Tom

                           

                          Thank you for the info.  I do not see the "setting" tab.  I am running version 5.0.  Is this new to 5.5?   Is 5.5 the simple solution to my problems?  I am guessing it will help but not totally fix all issues?

                           

                          So far my limited experience with Pr has been a real eye opener.  I am very impressed with the software features.  The limitations on the broadcast monitor is the only downfall so far, but it is big.  At least with the way I work and with my clients.  I do a far amount of odd aspect ratio work (trade show and point of purchase work) and I need to monitor not only broadcast formats but these not so standard ratios.  I also work on a Smoke which handles the output to a broadcast monitor just fine.  It scales the video to fit within the monitor but keeps the aspect ratio.

                           

                          Is there anyone at Adobe or AJA or Blackmagic that can help me fine the best solution?

                           

                          Chris Randolph

                          • 10. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                            crandolph1234 Level 1

                            Tom

                             

                            Part 2.  So I did some more research and realize that the setting tab (in 5.5) was the general tab (in 5.0)  so I followed your steps as if I was in the settings tab, but when I went to choose the codec, ProRes was not on option.  I also need to update the kona drivers because the low quality and aggressive cache were also not an option.

                             

                            Anyways, thanks for the help so far and thanks for future help.  Would love to get this solved because I think Pr has some great potential.

                             

                            Chris Randolph

                            • 11. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                              Colin Brougham Level 6
                              ...but when I went to choose the codec, ProRes was not on option.

                               

                              Just checking, but are you selecting QuickTime as your Preview File Format in that dialog? Premiere Pro has a couple of different file formats you can select for rendering previews, and the codec choices available are dependent on which file format you choose. ProRes can only exists as a QuickTime movie.

                              • 12. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                crandolph1234 Level 1

                                Colin

                                 

                                If I use an AJA preset there are only 2 choices for preview file format. They are: 1. "I-Frame only MPEG" and 2. "32 bit float". The 32 bit float selection is in the resolution and aspect I choose in the preset dialog. So for example if I choose 1920x1080 29.97 the other choice, besides I-Frame would be "1920x1080 29.97 48khz 32 bit float".  The only time I can choose quicktime prores is when I select desktop to create a custom sequence, but then it eleminates the ability to use the broadcast monitor, hence my problem/issue so far.  Again I am using 5.0 and maybe 5.5 will solve that but I have yet to get confirmation. 

                                 

                                Chris Randolph

                                • 13. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                  Thanks Chris--not a Mac or AJA user myself, so was just guessing This must be a change in CS5.5, as Jim above is describing this very thing (it appears).

                                   

                                  It's worth mentioning that you can get the trial version of CS5.5 and it is fully functioning, so it may be a worthwhile experiment for you to try it out and see if it addresses the issues you're encountering. Jim and Tom's experience seems to suggest it might, but it sounds like you have some unique/specific requirements as far as sequence settings go.

                                   

                                  Here's the trial version: Adobe - Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 Family

                                  • 14. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                    Crandolph Im sending 2 images. In the first check out the yellow outlined box. This determines the codec to be used in the preview. If you click it there is a long list to choose from.

                                    Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 8.56.12 AM.png

                                     

                                    In the second image I have chosed Prores as the preview codec.

                                     

                                    Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 8.56.37 AM.png

                                    • 15. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                      crandolph1234 Level 1

                                      Tom

                                       

                                      Colin suggested the same thing but I only get 2 choices (see previous post) and Preres is not one of them.  I am running version 5.0 and have a feeling 5.5 make help with this part of the problem?

                                       

                                      Chris

                                      • 16. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                        lasvideo Level 4

                                        You are looking at the WRONG AREA    Dont look at Preview File FORMAT (the top selection in of the video preview options). Look underneath at CODEC, like in the picture. Ive never run 5.0 but Im pretty sure this hasnt changed from 5.0 to 5.5. I could be wrong.

                                        • 17. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                          crandolph1234 Level 1

                                          LOL

                                           

                                          ok ok!  still no luck. a bunch of choices like

                                           

                                          8-bit YUV 4:2:2

                                          8-bit RGB 4:4:4 - Apple 'rgb'

                                          Apple DV25 - 'dv26'

                                          AJA DV50 - 'dvi51'

                                           

                                          there are a few more that look similar to the 4 I just typed but no ProRes.  Or for that matter, no codecs I am use to using in FCP like H264, Animation, ProRes and so on.

                                           

                                          Chris

                                          • 18. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                            lasvideo Level 4

                                            Chris, are you on a Mac? Do you have FCP installed? That is the only way you can have access to Prores. What version of Quicktime is running? Sorry, didnt have my coffee yet.

                                            • 19. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                              crandolph1234 Level 1

                                              Tom

                                               

                                              No worries. I have thick skin and you are taking your valuable time to lend me a hand. I appreciate it.

                                               

                                              Mac OS X version 10.6.4

                                              Quicktime version 10

                                              Final Cut 7

                                               

                                              Been using this workstation as an FCP suite until a few days ago when I wanted to give Pr a test drive.

                                              • 20. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                lasvideo Level 4

                                                Maybe QT10 is the problem. I hated it and stuck with QT 7.6.6. Thats about all I can think of. My list of codecs with that QT , Avid DNxHD and AJA codecs installed...

                                                 

                                                Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 9.39.59 AM.png

                                                • 21. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                  Maybe QT10 is the problem.

                                                   

                                                  That's an astute observation--Pr can't use QuickTime X for anything, Pr requires QT7 for import and export, and that goes for both PCs and Macs. I was under the impression that QT7 was included with any version of OS X, but maybe that isn't the case and requires a separate install...?

                                                  • 22. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                                    Yes, Im know for my stupid observations When I installed Snow Leopard it defaulted to QT 10, but the installation disk had QT 7.6.6 as an install option if you didnt want QT10. QT10 was another step in dumbing down Apple products so I got rid of it after playing with it.

                                                    • 23. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                      Astute, Tom... astute.

                                                       

                                                      Actually, that would explain why Chris is only seeing two preview file format options; do you have QuickTime as an option?

                                                      • 24. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                        lasvideo Level 4

                                                        Under the AJA uncompressed  Editing Mode selection there are these Preview File Format options

                                                         

                                                        Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 10.11.55 AM.png

                                                         

                                                        But when the EDITING MODE at the top is changed, the choices in this window also change. I dont see just QT as an option

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        These are choices for the Editing Mode at the top...

                                                         

                                                        Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 10.15.07 AM.png

                                                        • 25. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                          zikade Level 2

                                                          What happens if you choose the custom mode at the top of the list (2. screenshot)?

                                                          • 26. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                            lasvideo Level 4

                                                            zikade, here are the choices and QT Desktop is now one of them.

                                                             

                                                            Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 11.02.35 AM.png

                                                             

                                                            And if you choose QT Desktop these are your choices.

                                                             

                                                            Screen shot 2011-12-02 at 11.06.16 AM.png

                                                            But you still have to choose the AJA setting to use the Kona 3 output on an external monitor

                                                            • 27. Re: Broadcast monitoring
                                                              lasvideo Level 4

                                                              Since we are drifting a bit from the OP issues, to restate, this is the configuration I use when using my Kona 3 and wanting to see Prores on the monitor for QC purposes.