23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 9, 2011 5:55 PM by lasvideo

    Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?

    rpmnava

      Hi Guys, Been playing with PP for several days now. Im not expecting miracles but the Software seems really slow... Hangs up on Footage.. stalls when moving a movie around the canvas... just really poor performance. So heres the specs on my Mac:

       

      Im wondering if I missed somewhere on system set up... it cant always be this way... I hear too many good things about the program. Please guide me in the right direction for posts and system set up etc.... thanks alot guys

       

      Im using a new Nvidia 4000 card for mac and PP5.5

       

      Hardeware:

      Model Name:          Mac Pro

        Model Identifier:          MacPro4,1

        Processor Name:          Quad-Core Intel Xeon

        Processor Speed:          3.32 GHz

        Number Of Processors:          1

        Total Number Of Cores:          4

        L2 Cache (per core):          256 KB

        L3 Cache:          8 MB

        Memory:          12 GB

        Processor Interconnect Speed:          6.4 GT/s

       

      GFX card:

       

      Chipset Model:          NVIDIA Quadro 4000

        Type:          GPU

        Bus:          PCIe

        Slot:          Slot-1

        PCIe Lane Width:          x16

        VRAM (Total):          2048 MB

        Vendor:          NVIDIA (0x10de)

        Device ID:          0x06dd

        Revision ID:          0x00a3

        ROM Revision:          3581

        Displays:

      Cinema:

        Resolution:          1680 x 1050

        Pixel Depth:          32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)

        Display Serial Number:          2A6222V8UFZ

        Main Display:          Yes

        Mirror:          Off

        Online:          Yes

        Rotation:          Supported

      Cinema Display:

        Resolution:          1680 x 1050

        Pixel Depth:          32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)

        Mirror:          Off

        Online:          Yes

        Rotation:          Supported

        • 1. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
          lasvideo Level 4

          You left out telling us the exact kinds of footage you are having this problem with. Also what kind of raid array is your media playing off of. Crucial to good performance are fast processors, lots of ram, fast raid and the 4000 helps in certain instances.This is my configuration and I have relatively no issues with Adobe sequences.

           

          Tom Daigon

          Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor

          www.hdshotsandcuts.com

          Mac Pro 3,1

          2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon

          10.6.8

          Nvidia Quadro 4000

          24 gigs ram

          Kona 3

          Maxx Digital / Areca controller for 8tb. raid

          • 2. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
            Glitchdog Level 1

            I too am a switcher, we even tried FCPX in a test run. I like PP a lot, though the interface has taken some time to get used to & learning a new workflow. We are finishing up some projects in HDV and have done a couple in our new format, AVCHD/H.264. I have found the PP timeline a bit sluggish w/H.264 and I use JKL a lot to move around. However on our main system, MacPro, 5,1, 8 core, 12 gig mem, 5 drive FirmTek RAID via eSATA, 10.6.8, I found FCPX even more sluggish than PP with H.264. I can edit with it and will edit with it (PP/H.264), but I recently transcoded some footage to ProRes (though much larger, much lighter on the processors) and the JKL works like a dream. Butter smooth. I'm not real comfortable with the dynamic link yet. Still using Motion for animated lower thirds and such and learning Media Encoder to use instead of Compressor.

             

            Today we exported from PP (5.5) two ProRes HQ timelines, an iPad version and YouTube version and the encodes looked really clean. This was on an iMac 27", i5 processor, quad core, and all four encodes completed in under 2 hours.

             

            Hey, we are looking at getting the Nvidia Quadro 4000 and I was wondering how it was working on Mac. Have read lots of posts with some people having problems on 10.6.8 when they updated the OS.

             

            Happy switching!

            • 3. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
              rpmnava Level 1

              Hi Guys... Really glad to read differnt experiences with PP. Tom to answer your questions:

              1. System:

              4 core 3.1 processor

              12 gigs ram

              Kona LHI

              No Raid... small projects off internal drives then backed up to raid.

              90% of all footage is prores 444 full raster 1920 X 1080 OR ProRes 422  1920 X 1080 from AJA KI or P2 via Panasonic Cameras. Vari cam etc.

              The FCS never even studdered on it with existing system. 6 camera streams for multi cam line cuts etc.

               

              If I take even 1 clip 5 minutes long of 1080i and double it on the timeline, Then stack it, Try to then select the clip and resize ( via mouse) it hangs. and playback is jerky.

               

              I just did a test;

              New Sequence AJA compressed 1080i 29.97 1440X1080

               

              Imported media :

              Type: QuickTime Movie

              File Size: 561.5 MB

              Image Size: 1440 x 1080

              Frame Rate: 29.97

              Total Duration: 00:00:20:00

              Average Data Rate: 28.0 MB / second

              Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.3333

               

              I hit play and it took 90 seconds to play a 20 second clip.... That is after several tries when the timeline just froze up. Now I opened up FCS and it took 20 seconds to play a 20 second clip. no studder .

               

              Point is I switched for a reason.. I see no future with FCS.... Adobe is my choice.... I think I just need a fast track to software optimazation or system setting so that its usable. in its current state it is not.

               

              and Glitchdog... The card seems to be fine but I cant say that I have been able to use the program enough to test the card.

               

              R.Nava

              RPMTV Studios

              • 4. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                lasvideo Level 4

                FCP and PrP do things WAY differently (FCP converts evertying to QT - PrP will play most any clip NATIVE, no conversion needed so its time to learn how Premiere functions for you.

                 

                Trying creating an Adobe Sequence by dragging the clip (Prores) to the Make New Sequence icon on the bottom of the Project window.

                 

                Conduct the same tests. Things should be smooth.

                 

                If so, AJA is the issue. (I run Kona 3 and it works fine).

                 

                Make sure you have the most current drivers (AJA 10.1 and AJA Adobe Plugin 9.1}

                 

                Make sure your Playback Settings (located within the Sequence Settings panel are set to QUALITY - LOW  and check AGGRESSIVE CACHE if needed.

                 

                If you add any effects to the clips in the AJA sequence you are probably going to need to render (red line).

                 

                Good luck!

                • 5. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                  rpmnava Level 1

                  Well, that's not so good. If I cant live monitor then I'd say that's a serious flaw...probably a deal breaker. I'll call AJA support and see what they say. I'll hold off on any reports til I work through this. Thank you all for your support.

                   

                  Nava

                  • 6. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                    lasvideo Level 4

                    You didnt say if you took the steps I suggested and the result you got. Since  I took the time to try to assist you, It would be nice if you returned the courtesty by responding with some of that information.

                    • 7. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                      rpmnava Level 1

                      Hi lasvideo,

                      Actually trying them out as we speak..and thank you... wasent trying to be short or rude. I was off site when I responded earlier. I will say this I just created a AVCintra 1080p sequence ( non AJA). stacked them on a timeline then did my test with just trying to resize in canvas and stalled really bad.... doing yours now... will report back in a few.

                       

                      Nava

                      • 8. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        If I cant live monitor then I'd say that's a serious flaw

                         

                        I agree, one that's long overdue for correction.  And you can help...

                         

                        http://forums.adobe.com/thread/900221?tstart=0

                        • 9. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                          Glitchdog Level 1

                          I'm curious the difference in bandwidth between a Kona 3 and and the LH series of cards. I know the LHi and LHe Plus have a higher bandwidth than our older LHe as AJA has recommended the two newer LH cards for our workflow, now H.264 as I mentioned. I want to edit natively.

                           

                          I'm not 100% pleased with all my AJA experience. AJA had recommended the LHe for our HDV workflow. When we got our system all set up quite a few years ago now (on FCS) everything seemed fine at first, but then we started having intermittent crashes of FCP. Even though I had chatted with AJA to make sure I had things set up correctly I never really expected AJA to be the problem, but we finally had to pull the card from the MacPro. To keep this short...

                           

                          ...the reason I said that is the HDV codec apparently takes a bit of bandwidth (not as much as H.264), but I wish that I had known this at the beginning that the LHe really wasn't a good choice for us. Maybe for you the Kona 3 is the best option if this is indeed a bandwidth issue.

                           

                          As a side note, I do appreciate the fact that Adobe is trying to keep our video as clean as possible doing the native thing, yet we are also trying to figure out the best/most efficient workflow and also be good stewards of the funds we are entrusted with. Would be keen to know your outcome in the end and I hope that PP will ultimately work for you.

                          • 10. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                            lasvideo Level 4

                            Glitchdog- "As a side note, I do appreciate the fact that Adobe is trying to keep our video as clean as possible doing the native thing,"

                             

                            That maybe a side benefit, but the primary motivation for this approach is the ability to drop any format clip on the timeline with out the necessity of transcoding , which is a MAJOR time saver. With FCP you had to trancsode everything to Prores and with Avid, eventually (after using AMA as a temporary device) you need to trancode to DNxHD. Its  pretty revolutionary, but not without its flaws , especially when it comes to third party external monitoring issues.

                            • 12. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                              lasvideo Level 4

                              I see. What graphics card are you using? Im using the Nvidia 4000 and have never experienced lag like that. Do you have the newest drivers for your card? Also, what version of Operating system?

                              • 13. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                rpmnava Level 1

                                Hi LasVd.... trying your set up but have no option for AGGRESSIVE CACHE..... I did set playback re to 1/4... thats all I have

                                • 14. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                  rpmnava Level 1

                                  Same as you quatro 4000 for mac... all updated and current plugs/firmware, snow leopard 10.6.8...... and its really unusable the way it runs... then again I pop open FCS and everything is fine.

                                   

                                  I can get used to new software but this is a business..... cant edit this way

                                   

                                   

                                  Ron Nava

                                  EP

                                  RPMTV Studios

                                   

                                  Phone: 760-634-2122

                                  Fax     : 760-634-2020

                                  www.RPMTVStudios.com

                                   

                                   

                                  The Leaders in Motor Sports Web Broadcasting

                                  • 15. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                    rpmnava Level 1

                                    Same as you quatro 4000 for mac... all updated and current plugs/firmware, snow leopard 10.6.8...... and its really unusable the way it runs... then again I pop open FCS and everything is fine.

                                     

                                    I can get used to new software but this is a business..... cant edit this way

                                    • 16. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                      lasvideo Level 4

                                      You are not in the right area. Go to Sequence settings. Then within that panel go to Player (or Playback Settings button). This reveals the AJA panel available when you have the drivers I mentioned. Lower left is quality, lower right is Aggressive Cache.

                                      AND PLEASE STOP WHINING WHILE IM TRYING TO HELP YOU. Save that for letters to Adobe, OK?

                                      • 17. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                        Glitchdog Level 1

                                        Good point, just FYI I never transcoded any HDV in FCP. Just dropped the HDV into an HDV timeline, no rendering, worked flawlessly without the LHe card. Did have to render mulitple layers of course.

                                        • 18. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                          rpmnava Level 1

                                          All settings per your suggestions. 1/4 playback, 1/4 pause, aggressive cache, both with and without AJA. I also tested against DVCPROHD, DVCPRO50, AVCIntra 100 and 50 and prores......Same exact problems.

                                           

                                          thanks for your time

                                           

                                          Nava

                                          • 19. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                            rpmnava Level 1

                                            Hi Glitch.... Same here... never a transcode or problem.... Im trying really hard not to look back.

                                            1 person found this helpful
                                            • 20. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                              rpmnava Level 1

                                              Just got off the phone with Adobe.... As it turns out, My WACOM tablet is the problem. I removed the tablet ( which I always used for gesturing ( not supported in Adobe world) and plugged in a cheap wired mouse and the stalls disappeard. The tech person told me that PP5.5 dosent like wireless mice.

                                               

                                              Tested and am now in the business of learning.

                                              • 21. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                                lasvideo Level 4

                                                Thats great!  Glad it was just the Wacom. 

                                                 

                                                As I made the switch, this book was very helpful in wrapping my head around PrP. It still serves me as a great reference when I bump into things.

                                                 

                                                http://www.amazon.com/Editors-Guide-Adobe-Premiere-Pro/dp/0321773012

                                                • 22. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                                  Glitchdog Level 1

                                                  Yea! Delighted to read the good new. Now you can sleep this weekend.  Funny, I am using the Apple blue-tooth mouse with no problems so far, hope that doesn't start causing issues. I really like it.

                                                   

                                                  Tom, thanks for your tip on the book, will check into it.

                                                  We've also found Lynda.com generally helpful and last night I stumbled on www.video2brain.com They have a free series on optimizing your system, but I didn't have time to look at it yet.

                                                  • 23. Re: Final Cut Switcher... Premiere is really slow or?
                                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                                    I did the Video2brain course on the new CS5 Audition and found it quite thorough and entertaining.