16 Replies Latest reply on Dec 13, 2011 9:25 AM by lasvideo

    bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro

    davidtarrodi Level 1

      Could someone please help me understand if somethings wrong with my settings or if my 4800 is defected?

      I run OSX Lion 10.7.2 and have the quadro fx 4800 installed in a:
      Mac Pro 4,1
      2 x 2.93Ghz Quad-core Intel Xeon
      12GB of Ram
      with two additional Geforce GT 120 installed too.

      the latest drivers for the 4800
      GPU driver version: 7.12.9 270.05.10f03
      CUDA driver version: 4.0.50

      I run Premiere 5.5.2 and have tested the performance with the two different settings:
      Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration
      Mercury Playback Engine Software Only

      I did this test because I didn’t feel my 4800 did the work I’ve read everywhere it should. Adding simple text titles to AVCHD footage made my playback drop frames.

      Anyhow, I tested my machine with 1920x1080 AVCHD and added video layers until I started to see stutter during playback. First with “Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration”. With 14 video layers sized down so you could see them all beside one another playback started to drop frames. The yellow line was still yellow in the top of the timeline. Shouldn’t it turn red if the footage needs rendering?

      I then switched to “Mercury Playback Engine Software Only” and the yellow line turned red. The strange thing is that when I played back the same 14 layers of video the dropped frames where gone!! Isn’t this beyond strange??? Shouldn’t everything run more smooth with the “Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration”?

      Has it got anything to do with my Geforce GT 120 installed? Should I get rid of those? My two 24 inch apple displays are both connected to the 4800.

      PLEASE help me or redirect me to some good forums!

        • 1. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          First of all, 14 tracks of AVCHD material, all scaled, is EXTREMELY demanding, even on a PC, let alone on a MAC. If you don't have a very good disk setup with a large raid array capable of sustained transfer rates of 500+ MB/s it will all fall apart. You will have dropped frames, also because the 4800 is not very fast. The situation is not helped by the limited 12 GB memory, and possibly the GT 120 is causing additional problems.

           

          What I do not understand is that you say that in software only mode with the red line, you have no dropped frames during playback even when the timeline is not rendered.

           

          BTW, how did you measure the dropped frames? How many frames were dropped out of how many total?

          • 2. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
            davidtarrodi Level 1

            Thanks for the answer.

            I realize 14 layers are A LOT and this really confuses me. Why is playback fine with 13 layers of AVCHD and stuttering when I edit a simple video with one AVCHD layer and one still text title with some fast blur effect on top of it?

             

            By dropped frames I generally mean the playback getting really jerky and not smooth at all.

             

            The main thing is that the behavior is inconsistent and the strangest thing of all is the fact that the playback is smoother with the "mercury playback engine software only" and the red line on top telling me it needs render although I play i back unrendered!?!?!?!? It's really bending my brains!!!! It makes me think that something is wrong or at least should be wrong in the settings or with my 4800! It's as if the GPU acceleration actually makes the computer slower.

             

            I have 4 500GB discs in a striped raid 0 so it's pretty fast.

             

            I'll try to remove the gt120s and see happens..

             

            Thanks again.

             

            11 dec 2011 kl. 22:15 skrev Harm Millaard:

             

            Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro

            created by Harm Millaard in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 - View the full discussion

            First of all, 14 tracks of AVCHD material, all scaled, is EXTREMELY demanding, even on a PC, let alone on a MAC. If you don't have a very good disk setup with a large raid array capable of sustained transfer rates of 500+ MB/s it will all fall apart. You will have dropped frames, also because the 4800 is not very fast. The situation is not helped by the limited 12 GB memory, and possibly the GT 120 is causing additional problems.

             

             

            What I do not understand is that you say that in software only mode with the red line, you have no dropped frames during playback even when the timeline is not rendered.

             

             

            BTW, how did you measure the dropped frames? How many frames were dropped out of how many total?

             

            Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4077945#4077945

            To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at http://forums.adobe.com/message/4077945#4077945. In the Actions box on the right, click the Stop Email Notifications link.

            Start a new discussion in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 by email or at Adobe Forums

            For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to http://forums.adobe.com/message/2936746#2936746.

             

                     

             

            dsl film & music productions

              www.dslproductions.se

            • 3. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

              David you have some beautiful footage on your website.

              • 4. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                davidtarrodi Level 1

                ok.. no difference when removing the two gt120s. I did some more testing and it seems there's a slight difference between:

                Mercury playback engine software only

                &

                Mercury playback GPU acceleration

                The GPU acceleration being the slightly faster one...

                 

                The average performance aren't SUPER though. I've attached a screenshot of a situation where the playback starts getting jerky even though the line is yellow. I did the exact same thing after transcoding to prosres and it was better but not as good as I think it should be. I know it's not guaranteed that the playback is fine when the line is yellow but I think premiere should handle this situation better from what I've read about quadro 4800 + premiere pro and speed.. Am I wrong? I am a former Final Cut user (due to the inconvenient final cut x upgrade) and editing prores in final cut pro 7 is far more consistent. If it says the video don't need render it plays back supersmooth no matter what. In PRP you really have to guess if it will play it smoothly and it's not allways only the heavy parts that are jerky. Even when the play cursor continues to a single clip after a heavy part this is also jerky and you have to pause to get the playback to get smooth again...

                 

                The thing is I am starting to edit a one hour long documentary and have to decide wether to transcode ALL the footage to prores or not. From what I've read Premiere is made to handle MTS files natively and that's the reason why I invested in a quadro fx 4800. Is there a better video card for MAC and Premiere? Is it even a such a good idea to edit a one hour long documentary with some heavy passages with all AVCHD footage in Premiere? If the answer is to edit in prores I'd rather do it in Final cut and it makes me really sad that Apple threw it all away with FCPX!!

                 

                Thanks for the answers!

                 

                David

                • 5. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                  davidtarrodi Level 1

                  Ok.. I didn't attach a screen shot. How do I do that? I reply by email and the screen shot didn't seem to follow with my reply?!

                   

                  D

                   

                   

                   

                  11 dec 2011 kl. 22:15 skrev Harm Millaard:

                   

                  Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro

                  created by Harm Millaard in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 - View the full discussion

                  First of all, 14 tracks of AVCHD material, all scaled, is EXTREMELY demanding, even on a PC, let alone on a MAC. If you don't have a very good disk setup with a large raid array capable of sustained transfer rates of 500+ MB/s it will all fall apart. You will have dropped frames, also because the 4800 is not very fast. The situation is not helped by the limited 12 GB memory, and possibly the GT 120 is causing additional problems.

                   

                   

                  What I do not understand is that you say that in software only mode with the red line, you have no dropped frames during playback even when the timeline is not rendered.

                   

                   

                  BTW, how did you measure the dropped frames? How many frames were dropped out of how many total?

                   

                  Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4077945#4077945

                  To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at http://forums.adobe.com/message/4077945#4077945. In the Actions box on the right, click the Stop Email Notifications link.

                  Start a new discussion in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 by email or at Adobe Forums

                  For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to http://forums.adobe.com/message/2936746#2936746.

                   

                  • 6. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                    medeamajic Level 2

                    It sounds like your Quaro 4000 is working just fine, ha ha :  ) All kidding a side I get the same results using a GT 240 on Windows 7 system when running Windows Aero glass mode. The CUDA technolgy is a step in the right direction but it has not yet come of age. I just stated in another post PP CS 4.0 might actualy be better. As others have mentioned when using certain effects and transition that are not coded for CUDA funky things can happpen. I hear you 100% that sometime 4 and 5 layer with effects will play fine but then a simple video clip with a title might drop frames. On a Windows system dissabling CUDA can make a big difference. More so with Windows 7 than Vista. I know the Mac OS has Expose but I am not sure if dissabling it will help the CUDA performance on the Mac side or not. I hope this might give you piece of mind if not even help find a soluition. I hope PP CS 6.0 makes use of Open GL and Open CL.

                    • 7. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                      davidtarrodi Level 1

                      Ok. Thanks! So what you suggest is to disable or turn off Expose? I never use expose in osx and don't even know if it's turned on?!

                       

                      It's sad that the 4800 is so immensely expensive that I really feel ripped off. I should have gone with a used 300$ gtx 285 instead to try out the CUDA! I really believe in adobe and premiere but as of today FCP 7 is still the absolute best editor in my oppinion having given PP a great chance to prove itself the last 6 months. In a year or two I think Adobe will be where I hoped they were today in video editing.

                      WHY oh WHY did apple abandon FCP???

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      dsl film & musikproduktion

                      www.dslproductions.se

                       

                      12 dec 2011 kl. 18:46 skrev medeamajic <forums@adobe.com>:

                       

                      Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro

                      created by medeamajic in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 - View the full discussion

                      It sounds like your Quaro 4000 is working just fine, ha ha :  ) All kidding a side I get the same results using a GT 240 on Windows 7 system when running Windows Aero glass mode. The CUDA technolgy is a step in the right direction but it has not yet come of age. I just stated in another post PP CS 4.0 might actualy be better. As others have mentioned when using certain effects and transition that are not coded for CUDA funky things can happpen. I hear you 100% that sometime 4 and 5 layer with effects will play fine but then a simple video clip with a title might drop frames. On a Windows system dissabling CUDA can make a big difference. More so with Windows 7 than Vista. I know the Mac OS has Expose but I am not sure if dissabling it will help the CUDA performance on the Mac side or not. I hope this might give you piece of mind if not even help find a soluition. I hope PP CS 6.0 makes use of Open GL and Open CL.

                       

                      Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4079476#4079476

                      To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at http://forums.adobe.com/message/4079476#4079476. In the Actions box on the right, click the Stop Email Notifications link.

                      Start a new discussion in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 by email or at Adobe Forums

                      For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to http://forums.adobe.com/message/2936746#2936746.

                       

                      • 8. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                        medeamajic Level 2

                        I don't agree that FCP is a better when you consider the tight integration between the Adobe programs. On the PC side PP CS 4.0 is included incase you only have a 32 bit operating system. Trust me I know many FCP editors and they admit PP CS 4.0 is much better than FCP 7. All I can say is CUDA may get dropped in favor of Open CL or Open GL. I am sure things will get better. PP CS 5.5 is not perfect but I think it would still be better than FCP 7. I say contact Nvidia ASAP. They might have a simple solution for you.

                        • 10. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                          davidtarrodi Level 1

                          After testing final cut (which I love) and Premiere back and forth with the exact same media I notice that editing prores in Final cut is the best when it comes to just edit the film. Sure Premiere does take native MTS files but what good is this when it doesn't run fluidly? Comparing playback and editing with prores in Final Cut and Premiere makes me realize that on my computer, don't ask me why, a rendered sequence with prores material in Premiere is far more jerky than a sequence with prores that "do not need render" in Final cut. Shouldn't they be the same?? Movements like camera pans that originally were shot really smoothly isn't as smooth as they should be playing back in premiere (and yes I know I got the right sequence settings and all). Final cut however gives me what I want.

                           

                          To me it all comes down to how good the editing App presents what you currently are editing. Adobe has many advantages with the dynamic link and so on but playback is a such an important part of editing!! Has anyone got the same problem with "not as smooth playback as you would really want" even though the sequence is rendered displaying a green line??

                           

                          Thanks for the links lasvideo but I practically read every article there is about CUDA, premiere and mercury playback engine already.

                           

                          Anyone knows anything about Adobe CS 6 release dates?

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          12 dec 2011 kl. 22:03 skrev lasvideo:

                           

                          Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro

                          created by lasvideo in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 - View the full discussion

                          Some answers for you right from the horses mouth 

                           

                           

                          http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playba ck-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

                           

                           

                          http://forums.adobe.com/message/3804386#3804386

                           

                           

                          http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/faq_list

                           

                          Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4079978#4079978

                          To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at http://forums.adobe.com/message/4079978#4079978. In the Actions box on the right, click the Stop Email Notifications link.

                          Start a new discussion in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 by email or at Adobe Forums

                          For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to http://forums.adobe.com/message/2936746#2936746.

                           

                          • 11. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                            lasvideo Level 4

                            Anyone who knows about CS6 is a beta tester and is prohibited by NDA to talk about it.

                             

                            Your experience is unfortunate, but the exception, not the rule. Prores plays fluidly on my system (either using Adobe or AJA sequences).  Our machine configurations are similar but there is some difference causing our different experience. Maybe the OS...maybe the way media is stored, maybe the amount or ram.....I dont see what kind of raid array you are using in your system description.

                             

                            Tom Daigon

                            Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor

                            www.hdshotsandcuts.com

                            Mac Pro 3,1

                            2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon

                            10.6.8

                            Nvidia Quadro 4000

                            24 gigs ram

                            Kona 3

                            Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid

                            • 12. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                              davidtarrodi Level 1

                              Hmm. Yeah there is some differences between our systems. I have 4 HDDs with 500GB each in a striped RAID 0 meaning they all are combined into one 2TB disc which makes the discs a lot faster.

                               

                              What do you mean with Adobe or AJA sequences? I've been trying to change all kinds of settings and one is called Player Settings in which my only option is "Default player: Adobe Player". Is this the place you change to AJA? What is Kona 3?

                               

                              Thanks for your info!

                               

                              D

                                 

                                  

                               

                              dsl film & music productions

                                www.dslproductions.se

                               

                               

                               

                              13 dec 2011 kl. 15:33 skrev lasvideo:

                               

                              Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro

                              created by lasvideo in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 - View the full discussion

                              Anyone who knows about CS6 is a beta tester and is prohibited by NDA to talk about it.

                               

                               

                              Your experience is unfortunate, but the exception, not the rule. Prores plays fluidly on my system (either using Adobe or AJA sequences).  Our machine configurations are similar but there is some difference causing our different experience. Maybe the OS...maybe the way media is stored, maybe the amount or ram.....I dont see what kind of raid array you are using in your system description.

                               

                               

                              Tom Daigon

                               

                              Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor

                               

                              www.hdshotsandcuts.com

                               

                              Mac Pro 3,1

                               

                              2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon

                               

                              10.6.8

                               

                              Nvidia Quadro 4000

                               

                              24 gigs ram

                               

                              Kona 3

                               

                              Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid

                               

                              Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not directly to the person who posted the message. To post a reply, either reply to this email or visit the message page: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4081421#4081421

                              To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit the message page at http://forums.adobe.com/message/4081421#4081421. In the Actions box on the right, click the Stop Email Notifications link.

                              Start a new discussion in Premiere Pro CS5 & CS5.5 by email or at Adobe Forums

                              For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications please go to http://forums.adobe.com/message/2936746#2936746.

                               

                              • 13. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                                lasvideo Level 4

                                Im not sure the raid is the difference. My raid  averages about 750 mbps with HD material as well. The AJA Kona 3 hardware allow the output of HD-SDI signals to allow external monitoring for engineering or client use. To use the system you need to use AJA sequences. If you are just using Adobe sequences you really shouldn't have any problem with Prores. In your config the Adobe Player is the correct setting .

                                 

                                To learn all the ins and outs of Premiere I purchased this book. There is a lot to learn coming from FCP. Its a good reference book after the fact as well.

                                 

                                http://www.amazon.com/Editors-Guide-Adobe-Premiere-Pro/dp/0321773012

                                • 14. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  My raid  averages about 750 mbps with HD material as well.

                                   

                                  That is slower than a single disk, rather pitiful.

                                  • 15. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                                    medeamajic Level 2

                                    I think he probably averages 750 MBPS as opposed to 750 mbps. I think it was a typo.

                                    • 16. Re: bad performance quadro 4800 and premiere pro
                                      lasvideo Level 4

                                      Yes, that what happens when I type before having my morning coffe. Thanks Medeamajic.

                                       

                                      Screen shot 2011-12-13 at 9.23.49 AM.png