9 Replies Latest reply on Dec 20, 2011 7:36 AM by vovando

    RED users, take note...

    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

      I've already submitted a bug report, and I suggest you do as well.


      I just discovered today that Adobe's new RED EPIC importer plugin doesn't support audio streams yet. Which really sucks on several levels. First off, it doesn't support audio, which is a huge problem for those of us who actually use the camera to record our audio. Secondly, I've discovered that PrPro goes into a loop trying to conform the audio in the files over and over again, which steals system resources and ends up giving me literally hundreds of the same .cfa file, cluttering up my system. Until they get the importer updated to include audio support, our only workaround is to export audio files from RED CINE-X Pro, import them to Premiere, and then sync them up with the video, which is a royal PITA.


      I've been a loyal Adobe user for many years, and a big fan of their software. My department has a very limited budget, and when I discovered I had to have 5.5 to work with the footage at all, I had to give up several big hardware purchases in order to get the upgrade to 5.5. Then I discover that I still can't even properly use the footage because there's no audio support!!! What pisses me off the most is that NOWHERE in the release notes or the download page or the installation instructions (and I just double-checked) does it state that there is no audio support.


      So, Adobe (Todd Kopriva and others I hope you see this), I understand that technology is exploding faster than you can keep up. That's part of the business. But be open and honest about the limitations that are there, and PLEASE update those release notes to specify that audio isn't supported--if I had known that, I would have never upgraded to 5.5.


      And PLEASE get the plugin updated to support audio. SOON!


      I know you're not able to give information on timeframe for release of updates, but if I can't edit this stuff with audio by the end of December, I'm gonna have to go export all my audio from Cine-X Pro, which is a huge PITA.


      AT LEAST PUT THE LIMITATIONS IN THE DOCUMENTATION ADOBE!!!! IS IT REALLY THAT HARD???? Or do you realize that by publishing the limitations you won't make as much money with the upgrades you'll sell to CS5 users wanting to edit their Epic footage?


      Sorry for venting... I'm just really, really pissed right now, after blowing the last two weeks doing updates to my system, trying to fix problems that the upgrade caused, ultimately doing a complete wipe of my OS drive and re-install, getting ready to start this project that's already two months behind, and then finding this.

        • 1. Re: RED users, take note...
          Level 4

          i only have 32 bit system.. dont know if that matters...re: output from recine X for your audio...

          but if I can help any way ( ftp some files to me ( i have ftp site ) or send graid ( i can use fw800 ) )...

          would be willing to run stuff through here...and send back quick


          have a graid I can mail to you if you want ( 1 Tb )


          if i was you id be bummed too...sorry this has happened...



          • 2. Re: RED users, take note...
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            our only workaround is to export audio files from RED CINE-X Pro, import them to Premiere, and then sync them up with the video, which is a royal PITA.


            Yeah, that kind of defeats the whole point of recording audio in cam in the first place, doesn't it?

            • 3. Re: RED users, take note...

              Why not transcode the footage? Cineform for example. Or do you really need 12-bit footage to work with?


              Even if you did, you could work with transcoded files (since they can have lossless audio from the source, see Neo HDLink options) and when you're done you just swap cineform files with RED RAW source material.


              That's what I did for my recent project.

              Much better than working with bayer-RAW source material in NLE (speed-wise).

              • 4. Re: RED users, take note...
                davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                Perhaps working with transcoded files is a better option, but for my

                workflow I prefer working with the RAW since I can do so much more with

                color correction with the RAW files. And I prefer not to color correct in

                Cine-x Pro because I find it awkward to use well. I’ve never liked working

                with proxies, and since my system is more than powerful enough to handle

                the RAW files, I really have no need.

                • 5. Re: RED users, take note...
                  vovando Level 1

                  Tell me, is there such a big difference (image-wise, honestly) when color-correcting 10-bit and 12-bit footage in your NLE?


                  Cineform 10-bit files (as they refer to them "Cineform RAW") store lots of data for post CC. Even if you plan swapping them with original RAW media.


                  I'm not trying to start a war here, just curious =)

                  I've worked with RED RAW directly in the NLE and let me say, boy is it slow...

                  You must have a monstrous machine to be able to do that.


                  EDIT: When I say CC I mean CC in the NLE of your choice, not in Cine-X or Cineform's FirstLight.

                  That way you can easily swap the footage. But you already know that, I presume.

                  • 6. Re: RED users, take note...
                    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                    Probably not much image difference, no… certainly none I could see. But

                    when you work for a company with a tiny budget ($2500/year) for their film

                    program, you live with what you can get… and Cineform isn’t part of that…

                    it’s too stinkin expensive. I used to have it back in CS3 days, but ended

                    up having more trouble than success with it so I dumped it and didn’t

                    bother buying upgrades as they came out.




                    My machine’s not that monster, but it works well… I can generally get two

                    or three layers of Red RAW with CC and transitions (I don’t really do

                    effects beyond CC) and I don’t really notice it slowing down any more than

                    it does for a single layer of XDCAM-EX footage…




                    Ultimately the problem wasn’t as bad as it could have been… I’ve not used

                    the “merge files” feature of CS5.5 yet, and was blown away at how good it

                    works… literally less than two hours and I had mxf/aaf audio only files

                    rendered out from Cine-x Pro and then merged with my clips in PrPro…

                    • 7. Re: RED users, take note...
                      lasvideo Level 4

                      I dont know if the original poster is on PC or Mac. David, if you are on a Mac, stay the heck away from Cineform. It is nonfunctional on the Mac platform currently. I tried working with the developers months ago to find out why all Adobe products (PrP, AE, AME) crash HARD when attempting to export to Cineform 422. They never resolved the problem.

                      • 8. Re: RED users, take note...
                        davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                        I'm on PC, but that's good to know... thanks.

                        • 9. Re: RED users, take note...
                          vovando Level 1

                          Well if you have a Mac-only pipeline, then - yes.


                          But on Win platform it's the best intermediate I could find.


                          I'll see why my RED RAW was so slow, thanks.


                          UPDATE: "But on Win platform it's the best intermediate I could find"
                          Not literaly "the best", but rather "I liked it and it works". There are alternatives.