24 Replies Latest reply on Mar 24, 2012 5:26 AM by Simon J.A. Simpson

    Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)

    Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

      I've just bought Photoshop CS5 to stay on the upgrade path.  I have to say I'm rather disappointed, the new features don't seem to work as advertised, and I'm finding a few glitches – one of which is the subject of the post.

       

      In designing (or redesigning) the interface for CS5 and Adobe Camera Raw something seems to have gone awry.

       

      Overlong Menus

      Compared to CS4 two of Photoshop CS5's menus have lengthened so that they no longer fit on the screen of my MacBook Pro – the Edit and Layers menus.  Thus, the bottom of the menu is off the bottom of the screen (or the top, if you are at the bottom of the menu).  Now, it is true that the Edit menu has two more items (32 instead of 30) but the Layers menu has the same number (29 items). In CS5 all the menu text items are more widely vertically spaced leading (pun not intended) to this problem on a MacBook Pro.

       

      Photoshop CS5 – Disappearing Menus.png

       

      The CS4 menus were perfectly legible before so why do this ?  What purpose does it serve ?  Did anyone at Adobe test this ?  (obviously not).

       

      ACR Disappearing Into the Dock

      And using Adobe Camera Raw has a similar problem in that the the ACR window disappears into the Dock at the bottom of the screen.  Now I've read Jeff Schewe's response to this in another post where he seems to think that those who use the Dock are in some way mentally deficient (I'm exaggerating to make a point) but, Jeff, some of us like the Dock and find its presence at the bottom of our screens reassuring and helpful.  BTW, Jeff, removing the Dock doesn't help the CS5 menu problem.  Seems to me to be sloppy design.

       

      What would be better would be to ensure that the scale of the interfaces fits on our screens, would it not ?

       

      BTW the screen resolution of my MacBook Pro is set as recommended.

       

      Having felt I've been coerced into an early and expensive upgrade by Adobe to stay on the upgrade path is it not unreasonable to expect better ?  It would also be nice to get the new features to work as advertised (rather like the speel chek as you tipe on this new forum – whcih it doezn't very well).

        • 1. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
          Jeff Schewe Level 5

          Simon J.A. Simpson wrote:

           

          ACR Disappearing Into the Dock

          And using Adobe Camera Raw has a similar problem in that the the ACR window disappears into the Dock at the bottom of the screen.  Now I've read Jeff Schewe's response to this in another post where he seems to think that those who use the Dock are in some way mentally deficient (I'm exaggerating to make a point) but, Jeff, some of us like the Dock and find its presence at the bottom of our screens reassuring and helpful.  BTW, Jeff, removing the Dock doesn't help the CS5 menu problem.  Seems to me to be sloppy design.

           

          So what is your screen rez set to? Mine is set to 1680 x 1050 (I have an HD display option) and I have no issues with ACR with or without the dock visible when I have ACR go full screen.  I also see all of the Layers dropdown menu. ACR has a minimum screen rez of a full 1024 x 768. If you have your screen set to that rez and you have the dock always visible then yes, ACR will be truncated because the dock steals pixels...

          • 2. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
            Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

            That screen res looks rather small. It may be "as recommended" by Apple, but  I doubt they sell 13" MBPs for working with Photoshop...

             

            Mylenium

            • 3. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
              Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

              Jeff, thanks for your suggestion.

               

              The screen resolution of my MacBook Pro is set to the native 1280x800, greater than the Adobe "minimum" and at their "recommended" screen resolution (see the CS5 ReadMe).

               

              I take your point about the Dock stealing pixels but the clincher here is that this does not happen with CS4 nor ACR 5.7.  If the display can work 'correctly' with these two applications why not with CS5 and ACR 6.6 ?  It really looks like someone has slipped-up here.  I can't believe that Adobe have adopted a deliberate policy to have their products only display correctly at higher screen resolutions than their "minimum" or "recommended" ?  This doesn't make any sense.

               

              Just out of interest, is there any way I can report this directly to Adobe as a bug ?  It certainly needs fixing.

              • 5. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                c.pfaffenbicher, thank you for the link.

                 

                As this is near the end of December, a happy Christmas and New year to you all.

                • 6. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                  Not being a Mac user myself, but interested in learning more, I'd like to ask a few questions if you don't mind...

                   

                  I know in the Photoshop PC version there's a preferences menu through which one can set different UI element sizes, but this does NOT affect the size of text in the main menus.  However, there are Windows settings that can be used to make UI elements larger or smaller, and they DO affect Photoshop's menus.

                   

                  So I guess in a nutshell my questions are these:  Is there an OSX user interface setting that you can change to make menu entries smaller or larger?  If so, have you chosen settings to make the menu entries larger (e.g. for easier readability)?

                   

                  -Noel

                  • 7. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                    Note the significant difference in size, for example, between your menu and that which I see using "Smaller" setting in Windows:

                     

                    MenusMacPC.jpg

                     

                    I just compared menu entries on my son's Macbook (also 1280 x 800) and the fonts seem smaller and closer together than yours.  Unfortunately he doesn't have Photoshop on that system, so I can't make a direct comparison.

                     

                    -Noel

                    • 8. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                      Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                      Hi Noel.

                       

                      There isn't any ability to change the font sizes for menus on the Mac.

                       

                      Since this was not a problem with CS4, with the same menu, I think we have to put this down to a design error.

                       

                      I will be reporting it as a bug.  Hopefully someone at Adobe will read it and it will get fixed before CS6 comes out and I have to shell out some more wonga.

                      • 9. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                        Mark Wheeler Level 1

                        Noel Carboni wrote:

                         

                        So I guess in a nutshell my questions are these:  Is there an OSX user interface setting that you can change to make menu entries smaller or larger?  If so, have you chosen settings to make the menu entries larger (e.g. for easier readability)?

                         

                        Apart from the monitor resolution setting in System Preferences, Mac OS doesn't offer a setting that changes text size in menus. That option is a little less necessary for Macs because Apple creates the OS and the hardware, and can therefore optimize the available resolutions for their laptops and monitors.

                         

                        Mac apps like word processors and web browsers do let you zoom text in documents (shortcut is Command + or  -), but that doesn't apply to Photoshop.

                         

                        Adobe definitely tested the 1280x800 resolution in Mac OS. But it's also true that menu spacing increased from CS4 to CS5. As part of the conversion to Apple's Cocoa framework, which brings many improvements to Photoshop, the menus had to be recreated from scratch.

                         

                        Please do file a bug to ensure that this gets fixed in the next version.

                        • 10. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                          Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                          Mark Wheeler wrote:

                           

                          Please do file a bug to ensure that this gets fixed in the next version.

                           

                          Does this mean we'll have to pay for CS6 to get this fixed, or do you mean that it will be included in a CS5 iteration ?

                           

                          I've filed it as a bug as described above (I'm hoping not to have to pay !).

                          • 11. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                            Bo LeBeau Level 4

                            I know it's not the solution you want, but have you considered turning OFF some of the menu commands that you don't use on a regular basis?

                             

                            Go to Edit, Menus...

                             

                            You can turn off the visibility of items in all the menus by deselecting the Visibility (eyeball) icon.

                            When there are hidden items in the menu there will always be a command at the bottom of the menu list that says "Show All Menu Items"

                             

                            hide-menu.jpg

                            • 12. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                              Mark Wheeler Level 1

                              Unfortunately, I don't anticipate this will be addressed in the CS5 timeframe. In the meantime, editing the menus as outlined above is your best bet.

                               

                              While this issue is understandably frustrating, be sure to consider it in the context of all the new features in CS5. This page links to detailed walk-throughs for the major ones:

                              http://help.adobe.com/en_US/photoshop/cs/using/WS5441FC84-6A84-45f8-9041-C3EA3E357507a.htm l

                              • 13. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                                So, we are going to have to pay to get these issues fixed ?  Really, they should never have got past quality control in the first place.

                                 

                                Bo, thanks for your suggestion to eliminate some of the menu items but isn't this rather like trying to fix a car by taking one of its wheels off !?  Good lateral thinking though !

                                 

                                 

                                Mark, I am sorry to say that part of my more general gripe is that I am currently less impressed with CS5's new features – the ones I am most interested in I have yet to get to work satisfactorily.  Conctent aware fill does not work as advertised with my images.  The noise reduction in ACR is not quite as good as I'd hoped for.  And the new masking is not as good as one of your competitors'.  But the automated lens correction is excellent and I am looking forward to trying the HDR Pro.

                                 

                                • 14. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                  PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                                  Simon, did you use the 30-days trial before purchasing?

                                   

                                  I don't know what your issues are with Content Aware, but I'd like to suggest looking at those videos: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-suite-podcast-photographers/what-to-do-when-content-awa re-fill-or-content-aware-scale-doesnt-work/ or  http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-russell-brown-show/masking-magic/ (don't let the title mislead you, there is also a very useful trick of using masks to force the content aware to sample elsewhere)

                                  (but wait, there is more: http://tv.adobe.com/search/?q=content+aware )

                                   

                                  Noise reduction is one thing in ACR, but it's rather the relevant detail/possible sharpening while maintaining noise levels low that are impressive, don't you find?

                                   

                                  As for "paid fixes", there is an accounting problem that prevents new functionality to be added to software if the sales are reported quarter-per-quarter. The iPhone, for instance, is not accounted that way, that's what allows apple to offer free updates.

                                  Here, the menus are available with scrolling, no part is unreacheable, so it might not be regarded as a "necessary" bug fix... Sorry, I understand the frustration, but every fix as a cost in time for the company, and it might be detrimental for other support/enhancements.

                                  • 15. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                    Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                                    PECourtejoie.  No, I didn't have time for a trial.  It was upgrade or lose the upgrade path.  My practice in the past was to skip every other upgrade (actually quite a lot of folk do this).  Adobe have put a stop to this.

                                     

                                    The content aware scale/fill podcast is brilliant.  Thanks for this.  I'll give what Terry recommends a try.  I watched the Russell Brown video and followed his tips but, on a test image, I struggled to make it work for me.

                                     

                                    I have also watched the Russell Brown video on masking and, again using his tips, I struggled to make it work.  I will certainly give it another try but I've found Topaz ReMask much easier to use and gives better results.  I guess I shall buy this.

                                     

                                    As to the ACR noise reduction, I've found it worked excellently with several test images but on one particularly challenging image I haven't yet managed a successful result.  I'm prepared to give it another try.  So far I've used a combination of ACR noise reduction and NoiseNinja.

                                     

                                    I can hardly believe your explanation as to why Adobe might not fix this issue until the paid-for upgrade.  The reasons you give are really putting the cart before the horse

                                    My Honda has had a number of minor issues whilst I've owned it.  Have Honda said, well buy another new car and that will fix the problem as we haven't made enough sales this quarter ?  No, of course not.  They've fixed the problem promptly, and free of charge.  Software is no different.  It needs to work as advertised or it needs to be fixed.  We, the customers, should not have to pay for Adobe's errors.  Any mistakes they make are their responsibility and for them to pay for.  In the UK and Europe this is enshrined in consumer law.

                                     

                                    If what you say is true Adobe need to re-examine their corporate purpose.  Is it to satisfy the accountants or to satisfy their customers.  There is growing evidence that Adobe's first and only priority is to the ’bottom line‘ and its customers come a poor second.  Recent history will tell you that down this road lies eventual corporate suicide.  A reading of Dr W Edwards Deming will enlighten.

                                     

                                    Actually, at the end of the day Adobe just need to fix the problem.  A problem which it is absolutely clear should not have got through quality control in the first place.

                                     

                                    Sorry, but you did start this …

                                    • 16. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                      PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                                      Don't shoot the messenger. It's what I heard here in the past, about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act

                                      They can provide Bug/Security fixes for the entire life of the product, but features only for the First Quarter.

                                      I don't agree with the accounting choices either, especially when it comes to languages and licensing...

                                      If Photoshop didn't go trough quality control, you would not have a way to see the end of the menu, maybe... Quality control on a software as wide as Photoshop is not easy as pie.

                                      • 17. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                        Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                                        Very sorry PE.  I wasn't shooting the messenger !  Defintely not.  As to the message …

                                         

                                        Have a great Christmas and New Year.

                                        • 18. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                          Noel Carboni Level 8

                                          I don't mean to belabor this, but has anyone with a Mac compared the menu image Simon put up to the menu in their own copy of Photoshop?

                                           

                                          When I looked at the menus from other apps on my son's Macbook (which has the same resolution as Simon's setup), it was pretty clear that the text was more dense and more menu items were fitting in the same vertical space. 

                                           

                                          Simon, do you find other menus more vertically dense than Photoshop's on the same machine?

                                           

                                          Again, I'm quite ignorant re: Macs, but is it the system or the application that sets the menu item spacing?

                                           

                                          I might just have to download the Photoshop trial to his Macbook to compare for myself...

                                           

                                          -Noel

                                          • 19. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                            Mark Wheeler Level 1

                                            Confirmed with two different Macs and the Photoshop UI team. The application is defining the menu spacing. That's why CS4 menus are slightly more condensed than CS5.

                                            • 20. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                              Level 7

                                              Not exactly: Cocoa and Carbon handle the menu layout differently: CS4 is Carbon, CS5 is Cocoa.  The app can expand the layout slightly, but the default minimum comes from the OS.

                                              • 21. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                                Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                                                In either case the menus still don't fit on the screen in CS5 but they do in CS4.

                                                 

                                                So what's the solution ?

                                                • 22. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                                  PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional

                                                  I am afraid, given the fact that there is no loss of functionnality, because the menus are accessible thanks to the arrows, that it might not be qualified as a severe bug that would warrant an update, but rather as a cosmetic one. And given the release schedule, we are closer to the announcement of a new version, than we are to the one of CS5, hence logic tells us that engineering resources might be allocated on upcoming releases rather than updating the current one.

                                                  • 23. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                                    mbcseattle

                                                    Hi Simon, I had the same problem using Adobe Camera Raw 6.6 and HDR the window disappears under the dock, just like you I have a macbookpro. try this go to top right corner there's a preview bottom Preview ☞ ⇔ press Toggle full screen mode (F) When you press that the screen become normal.

                                                    I hope this can help you.

                                                     

                                                     


                                                    • 24. Re: Mac Photoshop CS5 – Menus Too Long (yes really !)
                                                      Simon J.A. Simpson Level 1

                                                      Thanks mbc.  I'll give it a try.