13 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2011 11:28 AM by Szalam

    Motion tracking help

    twim1

      Hi all, hope everyone had a great Xmas.

       

      I am having an issue with motion tracking and I will try my best to explain my problem as clearly as I can

       

      Here is what I am trying to achieve.

       

      Please visit this youtube video  Canon Powershot SX30 IS -140X Moon Zoom Test - YouTube

       

      and this is a still shot I just quickly edited in fireworks to show you the effect I am trying to achieve

       

      http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3148/motion.png

       

      As you can see in the video, some parts of the moon go out of screen in some shots and the camera also zooms in and out of the moon, so I need the word "Business" and "logo" to increase and decrease in size in proportion with the moons size ( camera zooming in and out ) whilst remaining at the exact point on the moon ( as if the word "business" was built on the surface of the moon )

       

      Which tutorial might help me? or if someone would be kind enough to explain how to do this, it would be greatly appreciated

       

      Thanks in advance

        • 1. Re: Motion tracking help
          Dave LaRonde Level 6

          twim1 wrote:

          As you can see in the video, some parts of the moon go out of screen in some shots and the camera also zooms in and out of the moon, so I need the word "Business" and "logo" to increase and decrease in size in proportion with the moons size ( camera zooming in and out ) whilst remaining at the exact point on the moon ( as if the word "business" was built on the surface of the moon )

           

          Which tutorial might help me? or if someone would be kind enough to explain how to do this, it would be greatly appreciated

           

          Don't even bother to work with that video.  Reshoot it.  Next time, use a tripod and make sure the shot is consistently exposed, which at the moment, it is not.  You apparently haven't even considered the problems trying to match your AE work with the camera auto iris.

           

          And since he put it so well, I'd also like to quote Bogesian from a different thread, responding to someone who also knew little of AE, and wanted to learn what he or she thought would be a simple trick:

           

          "After Effects is a kitchen. It's not a cookbook. And there is much more to using this metaphor than putting a frozen entrée  into the microwave.

          You have everything you need, it's just not given to you as a recipe for that specific effect.

          The AE help system and the many tutorials that came with After Effects will show you how to animate text.

          You will need to learn how to use motion tracking in the same way.

          You may need to learn how to use the planar tracking system, Mocha, which is not for the faint of heart.

          Like learning to make soufflé, you need the basic tools, fresh ideas, high quality ingredients and sufficient fundamental experience with all of the toolsm, techniques and ingredients. You will fail many times. Once you've discovered certain truths and universal, reliably repeatable steps, anything is possible within the kitchen.

           

          Suggest you invest in ayof the many AE books by Trish and Chris Meyer or visit their website for several hours before you attempt to use the more advanced resources you can easily find online."

           

          • 2. Re: Motion tracking help
            Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            In AE you'd use corner pin tracking and pick out some areas of the moon that have detail. I'd use Mocha. Again, you'll only be able to effectively track the moon when there's detail. You can bring in your text when the detail on the moon shows up. No need to track the whole shot.

             

            I'd start out with something much simpler. Take your camera outside, turn around, then walk toward your door slowly. Corner pin track the door and see if you can get that to work.

            • 3. Re: Motion tracking help
              twim1 Level 1

              I have 2 options I suppose

               

              Get a professional to edit this video to get the result I am looking for, how much can I expect to pay?

               

              OR

               

              Learn to use mocha as video editing is going to help me in the future, I'v downloaded it and I can't even open the file on to mocha

               

              this comes up..

               

              http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3670/deletes.jpg

               

              The video was original downloaded from youtube to mp4, I understand mocha opens MOV? so I used to a video converter to convert from mp4 to MOV using the following:

               

              http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5822/del1s.jpg

               

              Im not expecting it to be easy people, hence me persisting on online forums trying to understand and learn.

               

              So I should ditch the video? why?

              What kind of video should I use then to achieve the result I am looking for,

              Is it out of the ability of a newbie to AE and MOCHA to achieve the result I am trying to achieve?

              I want to learn it, its interesting though

               

              Thanks for replying people

              • 4. Re: Motion tracking help
                twim1 Level 1

                Isnt there a tool which will allow me to draw an accurate circle around the moon for tracking? that would make life so much easier

                 

                I don't know, how long would it take you pro's to achieve the result I am trying to achieve?

                • 5. Re: Motion tracking help
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  What version of AE do you have? Mocha has been included for a while.

                   

                  You've got to have detail to track. Tracking the whole moon is an option, but you won't be able to see the type when the moon is small in the frame. You also won't be able to see the type until the exposure is fixed, so why take the time to track it unless you want to do something other than you originally described.

                   

                  If I was faced with that shot I'd shoot it again and fix the exposure. I'm not trying to be cruel, but it's very hard to do anything that works well with poor quality footage. Given properly exposed footage and a clear idea of what I wanted to do it would probably take less than an hour to track, composite and color correct a 10 second shot.

                  • 6. Re: Motion tracking help
                    Dave LaRonde Level 6

                    twim1 wrote:

                    ...how long would it take you pro's to achieve the result I am trying to achieve?

                     

                    Hmmm. Difficult to say.  Would that be after the six months I put in learning the basics of the application on the job with training materials, taking baby steps while the project grew in complexity?  Or before?

                     

                    Not to mention the ongoing learning that always takes place.....

                    • 7. Re: Motion tracking help
                      twim1 Level 1

                      I cant reshoot it because I just used a random video of youtube, I dont have the means to a HD camera with crazy zoom

                       

                      I dont know what to do

                       

                      the problem is theres no good clean clear point for the motion tracker to follow on the surface of the moon, like a big giant black hole

                       

                      maybe i should use a video of jupiter instead and motion track using the famous black hole on jupiter, lol

                       

                      OHHHHHHHH I GOT A HEADACHE NOW, been trying to figure this out since yesterday morning, 48 hours and my eyes hurt

                      • 8. Re: Motion tracking help
                        Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        There's plenty of detail to track at about 12 seconds. One of the problems with tracking videos borrowed from YouTube is that they are highly compressed and the compression artifacts make it difficult.

                         

                        This shot should also track with Mocha just fine.

                        twim1 wrote:

                         

                        maybe i should use a video of jupiter instead . . .

                        This is the wisest thing you've said so far. I worked on a feature film that I shot and edited a couple of years ago. We used great cameras and there was this really good shot from a helicopter of a steam train climbing through the mountains. We had fitted the train with a stack that looked more 1890's than 1930's and there was a big square box with an aluminum disk on the front to give me a tracking point for replacing the headlamp with one that looked real. There was another shot from the helicopter that also worked quite well but the timing was a little off. We backed the train up four times to try and get the helicopter, the train, and the a tunnel all lined up in time and space. Shot 1 was perfectly timed, Shot 2 was OK, but I couldn't get a good track of Shot 1 so I ended up using Shot 2. The moral of the story, if what you're trying to do just isn't working, try another concept, another shot, or another approach. If the tools you are using won't track, and you can't make adjustments by hand, then do something else.

                        • 9. Re: Motion tracking help
                          twim1 Level 1

                          Okay so what would you recommend I do?

                           

                          If you were me and were trying to achieve the result I was looking for, what would you do?

                           

                          Also, do you know anyone who might be able to do this task for me?

                          • 10. Re: Motion tracking help
                            Dave LaRonde Level 6

                            "If you were me and were trying to achieve the result I was looking for, what would you do?"

                             

                            I'd reshoot.  Since you can't do that, it's time for Plan B: use a different piece of footage.

                             

                             

                             

                            "Also, do you know anyone who might be able to do this task for me?"

                             

                            Let's summarize what we have in this footage.  We have shaky, hand-held video with no consistent exposure, and parts of it are so overexposed that all detail is lost.  I can't think of a single individual who in good conscience would tell you, "yes, I can do this job and make it look like a professional shot it". 

                             

                            Okay, I CAN think of somebody, but it would be someone who would try to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn or a deed to the Grand Canyon.

                             

                            That video you have your heart set on just plain stinks on ice.  Give it up as a bad job.  Get on with life.  It's too short to obsess over something you can't fix.

                            • 11. Re: Motion tracking help
                              Dave LaRonde Level 6

                              Y'know, after reading this whole thread, it occurs to me that you just might have found a copy of AE under the Christmas tree a few days ago.  If so, you really, Really, REALLY need to go here.

                               

                              AE rewards those who learn the basics, and punishes the overconfident souls who think they can blow the basics off just 'cause they're so cool.

                              • 12. Re: Motion tracking help
                                Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I'd love to do the task for you. December was insanely slow for me this year and I could use another job before years end. I'd just ask the same that I ask from all my clients, a clear description of what you want then a meeting to discuss options. I'll then work up a bid based on the time that I think it will take to deliver your project. I expect that it will take from 1 to 100 hours, depending on what you want.

                                 

                                I'm not trying to be a smart ***, I'm not sure what you want to do. The still you showed would be fairly easy using either Mocha or AE's tracker on just the segment of the footage where the moon is properly exposed. The type that you've showed in the sample image won't be visible when the moon is over exposed or when it's just a dot on the screen. So here's the long and short of it, I don't know what you want to do. Tracking the entire shot makes no sense considering your example photo:

                                 

                                http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3148/motion.png

                                 

                                One quick FYI, I did a quick screen capture of the video, dropped it into mocha and got a nearly perfect track from about 11 seconds in to about 36 seconds in (all of the properly exposed moon footage). It took about 5 minutes. Another 15 or so minutes spent cleaning up the track and you would be able to copy the tracking data to AE, apply it to a null, parent the null to your type effects and have it locked to the moon. Throw in a little color correction, some matching blur when the camera's auto focus fouls up, and you're set.

                                • 13. Re: Motion tracking help
                                  Szalam Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  So, about $100 then?